5.4 Burden of Guilt Change...

Paladin
Solamnus:
Not a fan of this proposed 5.4 Change:

• Burden of Guilt has been replaced with a new talent called Evil is a Point of View, which allows the Paladin to use Turn Evil on players and beasts.

Don't we already have this ability, Repentance. From a PvP perspective, I do not need two talents that accomplish roughly the same thing on the same tier. Personally, I'm not happy with you affecting my ability to kite melee class players.


I agree, Paladins don't have any other ranged snares, so I don't feel good about losing our only one.

I honestly think it should be baseline with Judgment.
They should bake BoG into Seal of Justice. It already has the slowing effect of 8seconds, just boost it to 12seconds or boost its slowing effect to 75% for 8 seconds and add a bit of extra holy damage to it or allow it to place a debuff on target that not only slows, but takes 10% additional holy damage or something.


Its not the duration thats the problem, what made BoG for a lot of people was to be able to snare at range. SoJ doesn't proc on judgement, which is kind of a pain when you're being kited.
06/13/2013 06:12 PMPosted by Iltareh
It's instant cast with a glyph wheras repentance is subject to interrupts and you have to stop to cast it.


We arent sure if Turn Evil will even have a instant cast glyph, they removed the current glyph in PTR and are reworking it.
[quote="92801538815"]It's instant cast with a glyph wheras repentance is subject to interrupts and you have to stop to cast it [/quote

Read the patch notes. Glyph of Turn evil is being redesigned and will no longer make it instant.

Now what makes Evil is a Point of View good is it doesn't break immediately on damage (like repentance does) and it ignores all immunity to fear and cannot be dispelled.
This is a massive buff to all paladins actually, while there will be a cast time on you seem to be forgetting that this does not break on damage right away. Meaning DoT cleave with a paladin will be viable. Another thing is this will be usable on druids, any paladin knows that a druid could just shift out of normal form and immune a repent putting it on cd and not taking the CC. Lastly, it has a lower cast time, this is so good for holy it's seriously just what we needed. This will make us far more viable as a healer.

It is dispellable
monks already ignore BoG for me half the time anyways ... twirling and rolling away every few seconds.

..........now, there is no way I'm touching them.
Has Blizzard mentioned why they're removing BoG? I do hope its not from under-use by Holy, for as a Holy Pally (who mostly does 2s with melee) I've found this talent immensely useful.

I could understand if it was being removed due to War complaints, as 1vs1 (which often happens in 2s when dps/heal teams face each other) almost no Warrior could touch me.

Not to mention the amount of times being able to snare what is running from the dps around a pillar from range being a game changer.

Of course in 3s, 5s and rated BGs with the amount of snares flying around its use would be diluted.
There's a good chance BoG will become baseline in some way, probably rolled into Seal of Justice. Remember, they're not happy with the current SoJ and may attempt to change it again like they did in 5.2.

Even if BoG went away entirely, a fear mechanic is going to be stronger against most opponents in most situations.

Been analyzing monks, and got better uptime on target with all the rolls and whatnot. If we don't get some sort of BoG rolled into SoJ, or BoG itself baseline for ret, I'm done with the class.

Your latency sounds unfortunate if you rely that much on BoG, but the fact is ret is really good right now and it's not because of BoG.


400+ latency as melee in PVP pretty much requires some sort of easily re-applied slow or almost always up speed boost because to melee someone you need to be ahead of where their model is on the screen (being right inside their model will give you "target is too far away" messages)
The glyph is also being changed to something else, so the fear is not going to be instant cast.


Exactly, Blizz stated the glyph will be reworked so don't count on this being an instant fear.
Probably a fear like warriors where you stand in place?
It will prob be exactly like repentance except on different DRs, and prob wont break on dmg.

It sort of makes out talents to that tier a little boring to pick. I remember when Repentance was potentially baseline for Retribution and was an instant cast .... I like that, and I don't think it was OP.
I don't mind the change to Turn Evil to allow humanoid to be feared but beasts? That's dumb. We're not hunters. I could understand Elementals...but beasts?

Burden of Guild was so awesome I hope it gets baked into the judgment of Seal of Justice. Seal of Truth adds the Censure Dot so Seal of Justice needs that buff IMO.
So who else is going to be fear-spamming locks?


fear into a blind into a stun. love it.
This change essentially removes a tool from rets in order to give another one to holy. I'm not a fan, given that holy is already much stronger than ret in pvp.
06/22/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Newdäwn
So who else is going to be fear-spamming locks?


fear into a blind into a stun. love it.


You're going to be casting spells while in combat? With the change to the glyph so that this spell isn't insta-cast, I don't see it replacing fist of justice anytime soon.
06/23/2013 01:09 AMPosted by Carmageddon


fear into a blind into a stun. love it.


You're going to be casting spells while in combat? With the change to the glyph so that this spell isn't insta-cast, I don't see it replacing fist of justice anytime soon.


I'm with you on that and so is a lot of others. I used burden of guilt early on a patch ago. After playing ret so long and realizing that we have so many utilities, I can benefit more from a 30 second stun or incapacitation. Emancipate I noticed is forgotten a lot which is a very helpful spell that removes slow affects. I understand that it doesn't shine next to freedom but against someone kiting you both used can change the outcome of a bg or arena.
Blizzard keeps track of which players are using which talents. I'm betting the vast majority of paladins used Burden of Guilt. Why wouldn't they? An insta-cast snare which is almost effortless to cast, versus a couple of short duration stun/cc spells with fairly long cooldowns.

There's the problem. Burden of Guilt is too good versus the other two talents, and it seems out of place too (snare versus stun/cc). I think I agree with this change, a Fear seems to fit in better with the other two talents. I don't think every class needs a snare, but if turns out paladins still do then it can be baked into Judgement as standard.
Add it to Selfless Healer and then you got a nice PvP talent to work with?

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