This Game Does Nothing To Teach Bad Players..

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I logged in just to like this post.

Great job!

I couldn't agree more!!
I find it interesting that the majority of people who have been against me the whole time have no normal raid achievements and their gear and raid progression are all LFR or worse

Not being interested in sinking a lot of time into raiding isn't the same thing as being a bad player. It's entirely possible that someone has amazing skill but prefers PvP or pet battles instead.

I doubt any of you could even comprehend where I am coming from with this whole "the game is too easy" thing since even with the game as moronically easy as it is now, is still hard for you to wrap your head around now.

Once you start doing hard modes, you'll find more of a challenge.

06/18/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Shuku
Indeed I did take interest in the Proving Grounds feature, but who is to say that it will be used?

So far, you made a thread saying "Blizzard does nothing."

Blizzard responds and says "See, we're doing something."

It's okay to say "cool, you're doing something." You don't have to keep calling them failures just to keep your thread going. Complaining more isn't going to make you more right.

The game has plenty of ways to be challenged for players that choose to be challenged. There's no reason to rail against those who are just here for fun, especially when you aren't choosing to do any hard modes to challenge yourself.
Assuming that these are all peoples mains, I find it interesting that the majority of people who have been against me the whole time have no normal raid achievements and their gear and raid progression are all LFR or worse. They are the very people I am talking about who are happy getting access to everything and doing virtually nothing to get it. They are the people who tell Blizz the game is too hard and no make the game easier.


Been trying FOR WEEKS to get into a normal ToT pug, or a guild doing normals, or anything. Does it look like I don't put thought or research into my character? I'm not happy where I am, in fact I'm quite bitter. Thanks for ruining my day with that remark, jerk.

I doubt any of you could even comprehend where I am coming from with this whole "the game is too easy" thing since even with the game as moronically easy as it is now, is still hard for you to wrap your head around now.

My point still stands, Blizz should not ruin the game for the sake of bad players who want everything handed to them.


I'll let you know whether I agree or disagree with this sentiment when I come close to being able to experience the hardest content this game has to offer.
OP, thank you for taking the time out and explaining why it is important not everything be handed out on a silver platter. Also, I agree the only people who will disagree with you are people who don't understand or haven't experienced the joy of working as a team to down difficult encounters.

Once again, thank you.
Well therein lies the problem. I can hone my skills with or without this new tool. My problem is not with peoples ability to learn how to be a good player or to learn their rotation. My problem is with the people who use the games current system to bypass this very element. Okay cool you add a thing that lets you test your mettle, where is the motivation to be a better player? Where is the motivation to do anything more then 30k dps if you still get loot anyways and can beat the game and get the achievements? Where is the motivation to learn what stats you need to stack when you get the cool looking shines weather you are a rogue who pulls over 160k or a rogue who stacks spirit gems because they were cheap in the AH?


May I ask you what exactly you want then?

Blizzard adds Proving Grounds.

They can not force anyone to use the new feature. But it is there. So no one can complain that there is nothing to teach you your class.

Normal and heroic raiding requires an understanding of your class. That's one of the requirements to get into it. If you still have bads in your normal or heroic raid group, then it is the raid leaders, or guild masters - responsibility to weed them out, or teach them. Not Blizzard.

What incentive do you want? If an LFR raider wants to do normal raiding, he will be told what requirements he has to meet. He will (or should) be tested beforehand.
The incentive is better gear and a higher e-peen.

I'm glad about the proving grounds feature to be open for everyone who is interested in becoming better. That way I can test out various rotations, tricks and gear before even considering to apply to a normal raiding guild (If I ever find myself interested.) Hey, maybe I learn a thing or two. That would be nice.

It's a great idea. If you meet someone who fails at a raid, tell them what works for you and send them off to the proving grounds until they learn their rotation.

And if they're not interested to learn, what do you care? Those people will never make it into normal or heroic raiding unless they're being carried.
But as you have stated, part of the problem is nobody is willing to ACCEPT help from one another.


Fixed that for you.
So far, you made a thread saying "Blizzard does nothing."

Blizzard responds and says "See, we're doing something."

It's okay to say "cool, you're doing something." You don't have to keep calling them failures just to keep your thread going. Complaining more isn't going to make you more right.


As much as the OP is being an arrogant snot, I see his point. If new players aren't required to use the feature in some way, whose to say it will even reach the intended demographic?

IMO they should make the proving grounds be some sort of attunement process where you have to score within a certain threshold to be able to do Raiding / LFR. Maybe, just maybe this will stop people from spamming this "Link last boss achieve to join my pug" nonsense, because they can have some iota of trust that the people they bring in won't wipe the raid to derpy stuff over and over.
For whatever reason crowd control became obsolete in the game, why? Because people were too dumb to wrap their head around the idea that they can't just charge into battle without incapacitating some of your enemies first? That the tank can't face roll down 20 mobs all at once?


Crowd control is needlessly tedious, grindy, boring game play that slows your progress for the sake of slowing your progress. Add to this, fighting people that can't fight back isn't very heroic. If I wanted to do that, I'd main a cowardly rogue.

06/18/2013 05:18 PMPosted by Inguma
They can not force anyone to use the new feature. But it is there. So no one can complain that there is nothing to teach you your class.


That's the problem, it should be forced. What the OP is saying, especially with the Egoraptor vid, is that people need to be forced to learn about the game through its design, rather than some optional gimmick they may or may not even do.

And if they're not interested to learn, what do you care? Those people will never make it into normal or heroic raiding unless they're being carried.


No but they'll try, and it makes it harder for everyone else who's not being carried, to get in. People are getting more and more cynical and assuming if you don't have the progression already, you just suck. The extreme number of derps in this game certainly can't be improving that situation.
OP, thank you for taking the time out and explaining why it is important not everything be handed out on a silver platter. Also, I agree the only people who will disagree with you are people who don't understand or haven't experienced the joy of working as a team to down difficult encounters.

Once again, thank you.


NP man, I know what it feels like to feel accomplished in this game, to actually be epic.
It is just a shame that everything is so easily obtainable now, that spark just isn't there anymore.


I seriously don't understand what you're looking for. I feel challenged and epic in a lot of the content I've done in the game. The legendary chain in the Thunder Forge is crazy hard at lower Ilevels.

Seriously, are you asking for the game to beat people into submission while leveling, where one mistake outside of the 1200 possible scenerios you'd come accross keeps you from advancing? Because the modern pop-cap, big fish game, Iphone generation of gamers will run from this genre screaming if that's the case.
Lol you are assuming or asserting everyone should be a hardcore raider and are unable to comprehend the mechanics because of our supposed stupidity. I am casaul and i enjoy the game simply because its fun and the best mmo out there period. If you want to do hardcore groovey enjoy yourself, but please allow me to enjoy my game too pls. I dont care about endgame content or how high I can get my dps when It happens it happens and if it dont oh well!

This game is enjoyment for me and alot of others; our 15 bucks is just as important as yours and just because you consider yourself superior to me and others is besides the point. I agree you most likely are a better player than I and always will be but as an old woman and retiree and as a paying customer I deserve the same access as you do unless you pay a higher sub than i do!
06/18/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Shuku
It's just there to help people learn their roles. It's not intended to be some literal requirement into group content (or I would hope not).


Well therein lies the problem. I can hone my skills with or without this new tool. My problem is not with peoples ability to learn how to be a good player or to learn their rotation. My problem is with the people who use the games current system to bypass this very element. Okay cool you add a thing that lets you test your mettle, where is the motivation to be a better player? Where is the motivation to do anything more then 30k dps if you still get loot anyways and can beat the game and get the achievements? Where is the motivation to learn what stats you need to stack when you get the cool looking shines weather you are a rogue who pulls over 160k or a rogue who stacks spirit gems because they were cheap in the AH?


There's really nothing Blizzard can do to really motivate people to be better players at WoW. It's like that for everything in life itself. There will always be people who just don't want to bother doing that. The individuals themselves need to have that drive to actually perform better.

I've played MMORPGs where the slightest mistake by just 1 player not performing their job meant a total raid wipe. Player B failed to keep a mob sleeping and so it cast its nearly instant AoE spell that 1-shot everyone (which was first prevented due to Player A casting an instant stun to give enough time to Player B to cast the sleep spell), that sort of thing. Even in those games, there were still folks who didn't care much. Of course, that meant that they would be kicked out of groups for it (perhaps repeated occasions), but yeah.

Blizzard can't do something like that because of how the game itself is designed. The combat system requires a lot of attention for just your own rotation, leaving little room for other tasks. Especially for the average WoW player, this is a bit much to ask for. The mentality of the gaming industry now, at least for mainstream, is more about ease of access for the individual towards rewards, than it is about forcing the player into taking the journey (with others).

It's unfortunate, but that's just how it is. Companies like Blizzard are still for-profit entities, so they do have to cater to the current generation philosophy. That's not to say they have to just hand-feed everyone, but they do have to consider their larger target audience.
06/18/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Lolacutie
Tell that to Mercedez, and any other high end brand that cater to the few.


Bad example because in the rest of the world Mercedes makes all sorts of vehicles for all sorts of prices, including trucks.

Not to mention Blizz would have to be bat crap crazy to go for a business model of exclusivity similar to Bugatti.

Face facts this is a $40 box with a $15 month sub, not an ultra high tech hand made $1 000 000 automobile.
Chess does nothing to teach people how to become better players.

Same can be said for just about every game that exists. You get better of you desire to get better at the game, it's not up to the game itself to teach you the skills needed to excel.
06/18/2013 05:25 PMPosted by Shuku
And you also bring up another interesting point. Remember when you had to be Keyed to gain access to a raid or dungeon? Remember you actually had to ACCOMPLISH something to progress?


No, I'm a Wrath Baby. But I'm OCD about min / maxing my character to its fullest before stepping into a raid, and am very self conscious to the point I worry about failing mechanics that, as it turns out, don't even affect me.

For instance, depending on your rating with the Proving Grounds you will have access to a certain level of raid but not be able to access higher level modes where you would just be a burden to other players.

Brilliant idea imo.


Yes. I hate that the "You're not good enough" card ALWAYS has to be pulled by the community. The game should have no reservations about telling the individual, "Game over", and there are benefits from shifting this to an individual basis in some way. The biggest one of those is the whole "Raiding is a team effort" double edged sword.

If you made it through a raid, it was a team effort.

If you failed for any reason, which may or may not have anything to do with your performance, "You're a scrub because you don't have X progression".

Wait, what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM


As Abraham Lincoln put it, "not everything on the internet is true".

That video is 100% garbage. It's badly exaggerated at the very least (his mathematics are absolutely impossible), and more than likely it's staged.

If you want to know why this video specifically does not prove the claim that World of Warcraft requires no effort to play, it takes one sentence: The video's creator puts more effort into being horrible at WoW than someone would need to do an average job at randoms/LFR.

I remind you that seething nerd rage over endgame being "too easy" led to Cataclysm/MoP raid difficulties. How have subscriber numbers fared since Patch 4.0?

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