It's all about gear not skill.

Battlegrounds
Playing Both sides alliance and horde i can see that this game is mostly all about the gear and not the skill. Doing random battlegrounds i have found it seems to be very random. With the new adjustments of selecting your rolls means really no difference when in a game. Since i have played matches were we would have 1 healer and the other team would have 3 or vice-versa. If you would for say have 3 healers on each team and their man job is to "heal" the highest score would be the person with the most gear. You would say the same thing for dps too. The PvP bonus is very outrageous. Most players would state,"Buy Crafted or contender's and you will be fine." Not really if you would do the math since BoE pvp gear would give you around 300 PvP power and Resilience compared to Melv and Tyr gear, the stats are too distanced and surviving and damage is horrible. Since almost all Resilience cap is at 65% i understand how you want players to live longer and get the feel of long battle fights, but most battle and i said "most" quote me if you like, during duels players with the highest gear score would win regardless of how they would play. Since it's proven in mathmatics and Percentages. I am properly losing your attention right now, This game is all about gear and not by the skill, since Pandaria was the expansion was all about players using skills and Class knowledge to help them fight other players is really not working since the player with the most chance of winning is by gear and not by the skill itself. I understand you would tell the person to get more and better gear. But it just ruins the thrill of having a chance at defeating a player not by your gear score but by the way you properly masterd the game.

By the way, instead of putting select your rolls on tank,dps,heals for random battlegrounds. Can you just put up the battleground experience listing/ brackets ? Since in Pve you must have a certain experience to join a group should be the same for pvp with the certain experience to join this leage/bracket? for example; Join Random Battleground high Experience bracket, Join Random battleground Low experience bracket. You can not be able to cheat by hiding you gear in your bags since the amount of experience of the battleground is by the amount of games you have won through out the season.
In before someone yells about no breaks in text!

I believe in randoms, gear is usually the deciding factor, since it can vary so greatly. I've never done high rated arena, but I imagine once gear levels start to get pretty much the same, comp and skill really come into play.

I don't think further breaking up randoms will change any of that.
06/23/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Stijn
once gear levels start to get pretty much the same, comp and skill really come into play.
Since in Pve you must have a certain experience to join a group should be the same for pvp with the certain experience to join this leage/bracket? for example; Join Random Battleground high Experience bracket, Join Random battleground Low experience bracket.


Just think about this for a second... is it really worth a 20 minute queue? That is literally what you are asking for. Just look at random dungeon queues, or what they used to be for DPS anyway (not sure what they are like now). Last time I did a random dungeon, was 20-30 minute wait times. For a 15-20 minute random BG, it just seems absurd. At least in dungeons you are rewarded gold, loot throughout.. at the end of a random BG, depending if you lose, you may see as low as 100 honor..
If you would for say have 3 healers on each team and their man job is to "heal" the highest score would be the person with the most gear


I don't believe this to be entirely true.

I believe that every game is decided by 2 things:

1) Gear

But, more importantly:

2) Individual Player Contribution

There are many circumstances where a player contributes something to a game which gear cannot possibly contribute.

For instance, my first random of the day was won by a 335k hp Rogue who Kidney Shotted an FC off the cap spot as our FC died and they returned the flag. He KS'd their FC, picked up the flag, cloaked and sprinted out of the flagroom and once clear, without saying a word, he dropped the flag for me to run with because he knew he would get shredded if their team caught him.

Our team killed their FC and I was able to cap the flag to make it 2-1 with about 3 minutes left on the clock.

There is no doubt in my mind that we would have lost that game had he not been aware of what was about to happen.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that our BG's are chocked full of 300k hp do-gooders carrying us Full Tyr players to victory, but guess how many full Tyr players had the presence of mind to CC their FC so he couldn't cap? Zero.

No matter how much damage or healing our fully geared players did that game, we would have simply lost if this Rogue hadn't been on his feet.
Just think about this for a second... is it really worth a 20 minute queue?
i do not have the resources to prove if this is right or not but for my person experience out of a group of 10 players on 1 team, i usually get 1 really high geared healer, 1 decent and 1 bad. and for the dps i usually get around 2-3 very geared and 2-3 very undergeared and the rest decent. and during a random dungeon and random battleground instead of gold you got honor and instead of Loot you get more honor. it's basically a win-win situation. And i don't care if i wait 1 hour wait time to be exact. Since i would enjoy a good game of players of the near same ranks to enjoy a good game and know what to improve my own skill and not instantly killing someone since they are under geared nor getting creamed by someone over geared then you are.
No matter how much damage or healing our fully geared players did that game, we would have simply lost if this Rogue hadn't been on his feet.
I do understand what you mean but not all classes have such major CC's moves. For example what would an undergeared warrior do with a lack of cc's? meatshield? and as i was once was a healer at a battleground once. I was healing all my teammates and died everytime with no mana, i was placed bellow the charts due to a high geared healing player. This is my personal experience not factual.
06/23/2013 11:35 AMPosted by Zemra
No matter how much damage or healing our fully geared players did that game, we would have simply lost if this Rogue hadn't been on his feet.
I do understand what you mean but not all classes have such major CC's moves. For example what would an undergeared warrior do with a lack of cc's? meatshield? and as i was once was a healer at a battleground once. I was healing all my teammates and died everytime with no mana, i was placed bellow the charts due to a high geared healing player. This is my personal experience not factual.


Shockwave, pickup the flag, Heroic Leap to the exit.

Any class could have done something, but the point is he was the only one who ATTEMPTED to do anything.

Everyone else was too busy splitting DPS and not CCing healers.
People that say it's all about gear & not skill almost always lack both. I beat geared alliance teams frequently, because we outplayed them. Stop fooling yourself & stop making excuses OP.
why would some1 not want the best gear possible? sry to say but if u wanna start pvping ur gonna have to get some pve gear to start in
why would some1 not want the best gear possible? sry to say but if u wanna start pvping ur gonna have to get some pve gear to start in


Or you can just queue up for a BG.
06/23/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Jugaa
Just look at random dungeon queues, or what they used to be for DPS anyway (not sure what they are like now). Last time I did a random dungeon, was 20-30 minute wait times.


Yup, still like that, and even for tanks and heals they can be that long.
why would some1 not want the best gear possible? sry to say but if u wanna start pvping ur gonna have to get some pve gear to start in
A good or even decent player can do fine in malevolent gear, so this tells me you aren't very good.
Does this mean horde has better gear than alliance?
Does this mean horde has better gear than alliance?
Bads have convinced themselves of this to feel better about being wrecked. I see full alliance teams of 400K+ health daily (and several posters have grouped with me & can corroborate this) so this is simply not the case.
06/23/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Zemra
Doing random battlegrounds i have found it seems to be very random.


STOP THE PRESSES
Bads have convinced themselves of this to feel better about being wrecked. I see full alliance teams of 400K+ health daily (and several posters have grouped with me & can corroborate this) so this is simply not the case.


From the Ally side, I can say that I've been in BG's with these people. They have HP and gear and they are still bad. Terrible. I give a cursory glance at my team and say to myself - okay, this team doesn't look bad, we should easily win this, yet when it comes down to it, most of these players just want to kill kill kill and disregard anything that resembles completing an objective. They really have no desire to play the objectives and win. I'd rather heal an under-geared Rogue sitting on a healer than these folks. Very frustrating as a healer who doesn't like losing, lol.

That being said, I'm levelling my Horde Priest on Illidan. I want to see the differences in the players. Add me if you want a pocket healer in your 85-89 BG's - Flax#1695.
06/23/2013 11:35 AMPosted by Zemra
No matter how much damage or healing our fully geared players did that game, we would have simply lost if this Rogue hadn't been on his feet.
I do understand what you mean but not all classes have such major CC's moves. For example what would an undergeared warrior do with a lack of cc's? meatshield? and as i was once was a healer at a battleground once. I was healing all my teammates and died everytime with no mana, i was placed bellow the charts due to a high geared healing player. This is my personal experience not factual.

For healing it's not always which team does the most healing that wins.
It's what healing you do in what location to what players that can/will make a difference.

If you are doing the most healing standing in mid of a WSG accomplishing nothing, and the other healer is in healing your FC waiting for the enemy FC to be killed then the lesser geared healer is likely contributing more towards winning.
06/23/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Zemra
And i don't care if i wait 1 hour wait time to be exact.


I'm sorry, but you may be alone in this, maybe others feel this way IDK. But, I feel like high queue times would be bad for PvP. Just my personal opinion..

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