How is ele going under the radar?

Arenas
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07/07/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Kircheis
Locked out of all 3 (how is that even possible?)


Kick ele blast (if they have the talent, of course)


I don't really see anyone defending Ele, I see them giving advice on ways to improve themselves against elemental. You see my raging friend, this is a forum for discussion not circles of whining.

You may see people telling others of things to do that make it not as bad as defending a class, but that's just narrow sighted. You also insult others as if you're some hot boy who gets all the girls, hate to break it to you but you're not and acting like it doesn't make it so.

It's also funny you can't calculate the damage properly so you resort to inflated numbers or the top 0.1% of a mathematical scenario followed by a method that is not even achieved to get to it.



Agree, sadly just how the spec is(Prob the most RNG spec in the game currently) there's no way around it till 6.0 =[.


Please do the math for us all then since you seem to think you know anything at all about your class. I can tell you right now it's going to be really awkward for you when you realize you not only know nothing about your class, but you can't do even basic math. But by all means though, please enlighten everyone on how it is impossible for an ele shaman to do 385k+ in one global if they start with a casted flame burst, because I have a picture of talbadar doing just that waiting to counter anything at all you try to say. It happens all the time, it is not some uncommon thing.


First, I never said it was impossible so no reason to get all defensive. Second, you're telling me Lvb+Mastery+Echo+Echo+Fulmination crit is a common thing? Yet you tell me I don't know basic math..
I was complaining about ele shamans back in cata before it was cool.


Please do the math for us all then since you seem to think you know anything at all about your class. I can tell you right now it's going to be really awkward for you when you realize you not only know nothing about your class, but you can't do even basic math. But by all means though, please enlighten everyone on how it is impossible for an ele shaman to do 385k+ in one global if they start with a casted flame burst, because I have a picture of talbadar doing just that waiting to counter anything at all you try to say. It happens all the time, it is not some uncommon thing.


First, I never said it was impossible so no reason to get all defensive. Second, you're telling me Lvb+Mastery+Echo+Echo+Fulmination crit is a common thing? Yet you tell me I don't know basic math..

You called the numbers exaggerated, which they are not. They are used as examples because they magnify how absurd ele shaman damage is right now. And yes, it is common enough that it happens at some point during (**almost**) every single game. An ele will get enough procs whether it be chain instant flame bursts, echo procs, trinket procs, or some other combination of complete rng to land a kill. Obviously people have to counter cds with cds for the most part, so when an ele doesn't have to use a single cd to do this kind of damage, it is going to be impossible to deal with in a lot of situations. That is a ridiculous state for a class, especially one that is receiving buffs.
First, I never said it was impossible so no reason to get all defensive. Second, you're telling me Lvb+Mastery+Echo+Echo+Fulmination crit is a common thing? Yet you tell me I don't know basic math..


It might not be common (especially because shaman have such low crit rates that a 9-stack fulmination happens to crit during lolprocs), but it only has to happen every once in a while to be gamebreaking.

It's similar to 5-stack TFB at the beginning of MOP: in about 200-300 games (3s and 2s, which tend to have longer games), I only got 5 stacks four times, but each time I globaled somebody. The fact that a spec (ANY SPEC) can global somebody, even if it takes the "stars aligning" is not okay.

EDIT: I say this as somebody who finally recently decided to get a shaman to max level. Having a blast (no pun intended) pew-pewing as ele.
They need to nerf the random burst, but give eles something else to be viable, with some sustained. Atm, ele has nothing but surge procs.
Can we please go back to talking about how op mages were? I'm tired of seeing all these inferior classes being spoken of more then your true rulers, us magi.
Locked out of all 3 (how is that even possible?)


Kick ele blast (if they have the talent, of course)


Yes, but why would you cast ele blast when they have an interrupt up, when you have 2 schools to tank lockouts, that's my entire point....

you'd have to get locked out 3 times for that to happen, which is basically almost impossible unless you're fighting a warrior melee cleave or something. Even then.
They need to nerf the random burst, but give eles something else to be viable, with some sustained. Atm, ele has nothing but surge procs.
07/07/2013 01:04 PMPosted by Rainbowstar
So many 1500 rated shamans not having any clue what their class actually does. When someone dies to an ele shaman in real arena games, it involves at most one flame burst cast followed by nothing but instants. An ele shaman does not even need a second dps to do anything at all for most kills.


You have very obviously never played an Ele if you think this is this is what happens. Nothing but instants? You're full of it. I guarantee you it doesn't happen without at least one hard casted spell, and if you did die to an instant proc, you were already at 30% anyway, and any class could have gotten that big hit to kill you.

07/07/2013 01:04 PMPosted by Rainbowstar
I know you terrible clueless shaman are saying to just dispel flame shock to cut your damage down, but unfortunately it isn't realistic to use s dispel on cooldown to dispel flame shock (dispel is an 8 second cooldown and flame shock is a 6 second cooldown). So since I don't trust any of you to be smart enough to do that math on your own, I'll do it for you. It is virtually impossible to keep flame shock off of even one target if you used your dispel on cooldown for literally nothing else ever. Even then, you could still die in the 2 second window that flame shock is up, which is how long it takes for someone to die from full health to an ele shaman right now.


Again, all it takes is the Shaman using a different shock spell for the healer to get caught up. And if you really are that worried about getting gibbed by the Ele, then maybe Flame Shock should be the highest priority dispel. And you aren't getting gibbed in the very short amount of time that one Flame Shock is up. Especially considering all the Discs running around, and LvS doesn't proc on absorbs.

07/07/2013 01:04 PMPosted by Rainbowstar
What normally happens is an ele shaman gets one cast off, just one. They flame burst followed by procs, which no one can predict or burn huge cooldowns to counter, followed by fulmination. An ele shaman can literally do almost 400k damage in 3 seconds without ascendance. If you think this is a balanced class, you are literally stupid beyond any reasonable means and probably can't understand that your class needs to be controlled a bit.


I agree with you 100% that that much damage in that short of an amount of time because of RNG is is stupid. We don't like the RNG either. If you ever visit the Shaman forums, you'll see myself and a handful of others discussing how it's stupid in various threads.

Enjoy, and please continue to try to defend your class. Good ele shamans know their class needs a complete reworking, it's unfortunate you people defending ele shamans right now are too stupid to understand that: http://www.twitch.tv/kisztwo/c/2523816 (this is essentially how every single ele team gets a kill at high rating)


It's pretty obvious to most of us that it needs a reworking. The Shaman class as a whole needs a reworking. But that isn't something that happens mid-expansion.

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You're ignorant. Stahp. It was stoppable as long as you could CC the warrior or get away from him so the proc would fall off. The same goes for ele shaman. Stop crying and trying to defend your overpowered to hell class. "but they can dispel it and the shaman can be locked down", the warriors could be CC'ed and locked down and their TFB would fall off and it couldn't be dispelled, it was still nerfed to the ground, because of what it was doing (one shot kills, essentially the same with 5-8 procs in a row for lava burst which happens ALL the time, RNG or not. It's more RNG for it to NOT happen)



Well no sh*t you could CC the Warrior, or run away. But that was literally it. If the Warrior got on top of you with TfB, you were screwed, and that's all there was to it. You couldn't purge TfB like you can LvS, you can't interrupt a melee ability. Sure you could disarm the Warrior, but how man disarms in the game are there compared to interrupts?

Yes, it's dumb RNG. It's still nowhere on the same level of unstoppable as TfB was.

Also 5-8 procs doesn't happen. Ever. You can't have more than 4. And it really doesn't happen all the time, and it requires running with EoE, which most high rated Shaman don't use.

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Most people who have problems with Ele shaman are the same teams who let them free cast in ascendace. I've watched multiple streams where even R1 were completely ignoring the shaman and they just get killed in 2 seconds and then are like "OMG HOW DID I DIE SO FAST?!?!"

You wouldn't let a mage freecast on you. Why is ele any different? I don't complain when I lose to an ele. I decide how I messed up, oh I should have dispel spiritwalker's, oh I should have windsheared his lava burst, should have hexed him, should have spell locked him, should have feared him, should have gripped him etc etc. There are so many things you can do to stop an ele it's ridiculous. Just people get lazy and fall into that state where they ignore ele shaman because ele has been bad for so long and die.

That being said Ele RNG burst needs to be toned down, mostly Lava Surge procs immediately following a lava burst cast or elemental burst cast can lead to 200k+ damage down in a global.


This right here is exactly right.

Please do the math for us all then since you seem to think you know anything at all about your class. I can tell you right now it's going to be really awkward for you when you realize you not only know nothing about your class, but you can't do even basic math. But by all means though, please enlighten everyone on how it is impossible for an ele shaman to do 385k+ in one global if they start with a casted flame burst, because I have a picture of talbadar doing just that waiting to counter anything at all you try to say. It happens all the time, it is not some uncommon thing.


It is actually pretty uncommon. Doesn't even happen once per game. Your Shaman should play the lottery if they have that kind of luck.

I'll gladly explain to you how they can't do 385k+ in one global.

Unleash Elements (global 1)
LvB (global 2)
Lava Surge proc while casting
Both LvB fire (global 3)

So far we've got three globals, for ~160k damage. With mastery procs you might get another 100k damage in there. ~50% chance for each spell in PvP gear.

Now, in order to do the absurd amount of damage you've listed, the Shaman would need to be running with EoE. Most high rated Shaman don't even take it, because it's a garbage talent. It needs to go.

But EoE has a 6% proc chance for Ele. So you're hoping for a 6% proc chance on not one spell, but two spells. One of which, you got as a proc while already casting a ~1.7 sec spell.

So no, it really doesn't happen all that often.
just got off ptr ele is out of control the damage is so ridiculous you put flame shock on three things and i kid you not you will get lava burst procs AT LEAST every 2-3 seconds and in a bg where you can put them all over its absolutely broken damage is absurd all around but ele damage is so broken. its not even fun to stomp others with an ele because they cant live long enough to counter. add pve trinkets in pvp gg.
They need to nerf the random burst, but give eles something else to be viable, with some sustained. Atm, ele has nothing but surge procs.


Please
just got off ptr ele is out of control the damage is so ridiculous you put flame shock on three things and i kid you not you will get lava burst procs AT LEAST every 2-3 seconds and in a bg where you can put them all over its absolutely broken damage is absurd all around but ele damage is so broken. its not even fun to stomp others with an ele because they cant live long enough to counter. add pve trinkets in pvp gg.


Flame Shock is bugged on the PTR, and every tick it procs Lava Surge. Yes, that is very broken, but that isn't how it works on live. At all.
07/07/2013 04:26 AMPosted by Yoloswegqtx
And now look at you, ALL SHAMANS defending the class.


i must ask

were you dropped on your head as a child


This shaman has a 30% win rate in 2s, and only 56 in 3s.

Clearly Shamans aren't OP guys, come on.. Expert theorycrafters are talking.
Hilarious watching all these Shamans try to justify their broken ckass.
The only real way for ele shams to get hotfixed would be to remove echo and put in another talent.

Also remember that absorbs stop lava surge procs, disc priests are the bane of ele shams. Mass dispell/dispell flame shock. Whoever is getting focused, cleanse them at all times, LoS the shammy as much as you can, cc them as much as you can. You may think they're squishy, but they're not, go for the other dps.

We won't get nerfed without getting a major buff to our constant/mobility/survival. Right now the only thing we have going for us is the cannon that is procs. I've been playing ele for years, this is the first time I've seen it viable in arenas in years. removing procs and doing nothing else will make the class useless again. It needs a revamp, and that won't come til 6.0, so let's all complain about how every class is op. (Disc/ret/BM/feral/Boomy/rogues/dks/monks)

P.S. If you guys think ele is op, face a boomy, they'll crit you for 200k insta casts and you'll be gone before you know it. And their heals are better too.
Hilarious watching all these Shamans try to justify their broken ckass.


Name three in this thread? All I see is people telling others how to deal with a current situation. I don't see anyone saying "Shamans are fine."

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