Forced Swap Moves Damage

Pet Battles
Any specific reason there needs to be such a large amount of damage tied to a forced swap move?
did we need another thread about this?
To answer both of your guys' questions.

Yes, there is a specific reason.
And yes, we needed another thread.
I disagree, on both accounts.
I think your point is biased.

edit: "lol"
Lowering the damage is a popular solution, but I don't think it is the only one.

I think these moves could be sufficiently nerfed by adding a restriction to them "This move always goes last."

This decreases the power of these moves significantly, especially because it hurts speed breeds, who are the ones primarily using this tactic.
This decreases the power of these moves significantly, especially because it hurts speed breeds, who are the ones primarily using this tactic.


I think it may hurt them a bit too much, as every breed of Fiendish Imp is incredibly frail, as is the case w/ the broom as well.

It basically makes the only viable users of swaps the Crate and Claw.
Lowering the damage is a popular solution, but I don't think it is the only one.

I think these moves could be sufficiently nerfed by adding a restriction to them "This move always goes last."

This decreases the power of these moves significantly, especially because it hurts speed breeds, who are the ones primarily using this tactic.


Yeah. A lot of people seem to agree that these moves should either be damaging or not be on fast pets. I think the design standpoint was to have moves that mess up strategies and timing - not be more or less guaranteed stuns on a short cooldown as they are used now primarily.

Also... why is sweep a crappy version of deathgrip. I think it does a bit more damage but has less accuracy and almost double the cooldown S:. Not to mention that the Broom is more fragile than all undead pets.
Lowering the damage is a popular solution, but I don't think it is the only one.

I think these moves could be sufficiently nerfed by adding a restriction to them "This move always goes last."

This decreases the power of these moves significantly, especially because it hurts speed breeds, who are the ones primarily using this tactic.


I think "always goes last" would weaken the move far more than reducing the damage.
Yeah, regardless of what else happens to these moves, they need to give Resilient to pets (and be stopped by Resilient) and should be stopped by the Critter passive too.

I like the idea of Critters having less than ideal stats and less than powerful movesets with a passive that makes them hard to stop and control. It makes them very unique because the other 9 families are primarily about power.
I think it may hurt them a bit too much, as every breed of Fiendish Imp is incredibly frail, as is the case w/ the broom as well.


I agree with this. I run a Fiendish Imp team all the time. It's a cool mechanic, but there are many counters and without the damage, those pets will be totally unviable. Even as it stands, their margin of error is very slim. Darkness teams are a huge problem because of the additional misses. Sandstorm/shell teams are a problem too.

I think the idea of making critters immune to swaps is a much better subtle nerf to swap teams.
Any specific reason there needs to be such a large amount of damage tied to a forced swap move?
Reduced accuracy and high cd on it.
Lowering the damage is a popular solution, but I don't think it is the only one.

I think these moves could be sufficiently nerfed by adding a restriction to them "This move always goes last."

This decreases the power of these moves significantly, especially because it hurts speed breeds, who are the ones primarily using this tactic.


I like the decrease in power idea, but it drastically hinders faster breeds while greatly enhances slower breeds by large margin. (especially slow undeads)

decrease in damage + 1 turn cd increase would be the safest choice that doesn't hinder particular group of pets while favoring others.
07/07/2013 06:34 PMPosted by Stygimoloch
I agree with this. I run a Fiendish Imp team all the time. It's a cool mechanic, but there are many counters and without the damage, those pets will be totally unviable. Even as it stands, their margin of error is very slim. Darkness teams are a huge problem because of the additional misses. Sandstorm/shell teams are a problem too.


even if damage scale on nether gate is nerfed, fiend is nowhere near 'non-viable'.

it still has its 'bulk' via passive + immolate, providing its own uniqueness compare to its rivals such as broom.

it just requires some synergy such as mine field from his team to fully utilize him.
07/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Tangla
even if damage scale on nether gate is nerfed, fiend is nowhere near 'non-viable'.


His response was in reply to the idea of making Nether Gate an "always goes last" type of move, not specifically about the damage scale. : )

decrease in damage + 1 turn cd increase would be the safest choice that doesn't hinder particular group of pets while favoring others.


Nether Gate and Sweep already have a 5-round cd. That's a pretty lengthy cooldown, all things considered, and falls in line w/ similar damage + utility moves like Deep Freeze or even plain stuns.

Death Grip could probably use a bit of tweaking, as being able to swap pets every 3 rounds may be a bit too much. It's basically like a stun on a 3-round cd.
His response was in reply to the idea of making Nether Gate an "always goes last" type of move, not specifically about the damage scale. : )


o i misread it.

Nether Gate and Sweep already have a 5-round cd. That's a pretty lengthy cooldown, all things considered, and falls in line w/ similar damage + utility moves like Deep Freeze or even plain stuns.


eh, for nethergate/ sweep, damage nerf alone should be good enough.

+1 cd & slight dmg nerf was for death grip.

(and force swap isn't a 'stun' but '1 turn interrupt' similar to kick/backflip)

ps. deep freeze probably deserves damage nerf for having 100% modifier.
or...people can actually use their brain and think about the pet they have in play against a swap pet.

The damage is minimal and I think it pisses people off because the pet that was swapped out died, swapped out an incoming nuke, or an UD died and the racial rendered useless. All reasons you use a swap pet.
I think it pisses people off because the pet that was swapped out died, swapped out an incoming nuke, or an UD died and the racial rendered useless. All reasons you use a swap pet.


The team I've been using currently is centered around messing up my opponent's strategy through stuns or swap.

I can't tell you how many rage quitters I've gotten when they are completely outplayed by making their own strategy impossible to pull off reliably.

That's definitely a large part of the swap pet hate going around.
I've said this on another thread but it would make sense that abilities that root pets such as Mudslide act as a counter to force-swap mechanics.
If my broom misses, or you avoid the swap, I lose. No matter what, I lose.

Even if it hits every time, even if I play perfectly, I still lose sometimes.

Forced swap moves are fine, stop crying.

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