DK Tanking FAQ - 4.3 [NOT CURRENT]

Death Knight
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ok why is DW tanking bad, they might make it work again, and honestly i perf dw tanking

You can no longer get Threat of Thassarian which pretty much means that you're going to be sacrificing a lot of damage (threat) in order to gain the ability to use two weapons. However, with defense no longer being a stat, and Reforging making it's debut there's just really no positive tradeoff to the damage that you would lose.
DnD is really fun and useful, but, since we can't lower its cooldown anymore and aoe fighting will be out of style for a while in cata, I really don't feel like morbidity is worth it unless you want to do some kiting or pvp. As long as you start with the current 33/0/3 build that's most popular now, I don't think you can go wrong. I'm going with unholy command and desecration - likely this: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jcGG0sMrusdZfM


I like that. Totally outside the box.. will try at 85.
Except for maybe looking cooler to some people, dual wielding as blood offers nothing but a loss to threat, dps, and often stats. If they move Threat of Thassarian to second tier frost: then you can get crazy with two weapon builds and even pick up lichborne or pale horse. If you want to dual wield as blood effectively, your best strategy is to go to the suggestion forum and suggest that Threat and Annihilation are swapped (or something like that) in the frost tree.
Excellent guide man I am looking forward to Cataclysm as a DK
kudos for the guide, I agree in many aspects of it, yet have a few questions too.

A: you say that any threat problems we may have will disapear once the new RS and Imp BP go live. I am aware of the RS on beta (wich no longer requires to dodge or parry, making it MUCH more usefull) but what is that "Imp BP" you speak of? this may be a silly question, but I haven't been much informed of recent changes and my grasp for achronyms sucks......... <.<
>.>

B: why is Crimson Scourge so worthless? since frost tanking is no longer viable, our "Snap AOE" Threat is a goner, thus we rely on BB to do AOE aggro, and let's face it, untalented it does a laughable damage, the talent makes it at least a bit more decent at it. I'm not 100% sure that D&D can completely hold our AOE threat, some classes (frost DK's and ret pallys in particular) can do a really nasty AOE that can suck up aggro like gummy bears, D&D generates a good theat, but over time, not imidietly, if a Frost DK on my group opens up with 2 howling blasts that crit for 10k, the 2 ticks of D&D wont be enough, not by a long shot.

C: is the damage/Threat of the diseases has gotten so bad that we can actually forget about them entirely? I mean, in the case of prot warriors, the bleeds procced by thunderclap deal a laughable damage too, but they deal damage, and thus generate AOE aggro that all tanks so badly crave. not having those 2 dots on all the mobs is really a good idea? the trade-off is a single-target skill that indeed boosts our survival with the healing and shielding, so I won't argue that on bosses diseases are a no-no, but in trash packs, is it really a good idea to ditch them?

overall, really nice guide.

Thumbs up.

Why the points in virulence? Particularly in the diseaseless setup. I thought it didn't affect any blood abilities except maybe BB? It seems like those 3 points could go into Hand of Doom or abom's might or BCB, depending on if you want a bit more utility or a bit more threat.
Glyped DRW is nice enough. In a pinch, empower rune weapon and HoW is a quick 35RP.
is the damage/Threat of the diseases has gotten so bad that we can actually forget about them entirely? I mean, in the case of prot warriors, the bleeds procced by thunderclap deal a laughable damage too, but they deal damage, and thus generate AOE aggro that all tanks so badly crave. not having those 2 dots on all the mobs is really a good idea? the trade-off is a single-target skill that indeed boosts our survival with the healing and shielding, so I won't argue that on bosses diseases are a no-no, but in trash packs, is it really a good idea to ditch them?

My understanding is that you may want to use them for additional threat on trash. However, pre-Cata, the trash is dead before you'll get the additional threat out of them, so I don't bother there either.

Also, they really should have added a report - sticky option.
is the damage/Threat of the diseases has gotten so bad that we can actually forget about them entirely? I mean, in the case of prot warriors, the bleeds procced by thunderclap deal a laughable damage too, but they deal damage, and thus generate AOE aggro that all tanks so badly crave. not having those 2 dots on all the mobs is really a good idea? the trade-off is a single-target skill that indeed boosts our survival with the healing and shielding, so I won't argue that on bosses diseases are a no-no, but in trash packs, is it really a good idea to ditch them?

My understanding is that you may want to use them for additional threat on trash. However, pre-Cata, the trash is dead before you'll get the additional threat out of them, so I don't bother there either.

Also, they really should have added a report - sticky option.


They did but at least on the druid forum, it can only be reported once as far as i can tell.
My understanding is that you may want to use them for additional threat on trash. However, pre-Cata, the trash is dead before you'll get the additional threat out of them, so I don't bother there either.


maybe this is true on heroics, but on raids that's a whole diferent matter.

ICC trash doesn't die instantaneously, and more often than not Ret pallys and Frost DK's do OBSCENE amounts of instant-AOE aggro, thus lacking the extra threat (however minor it may be) of the diseases, plus the lower damage of BB when there are no diseases means a much lower AOE threat, and often losing several mobs.

at least the AOE of mages or warlocks is dealt in condensated doses, as Blizzard is a channeled spell, and so is rain of fire, but Howling blast is an instant strong nuke that (at least on ICC) can crit for over 12k if u're geared enough, considering it's spammable nature, I want as much AOE threat as I can.

this will be doubly true in cataclysm, where adds won't die in a blink of an eye, (then again on cata AOE should be minimal for non-tanks, so maybe that won't be so much of a concern)
I've been reading the posts about DW vs 2H.
I can honestly sit here and tell you I have higher threat Duel Wielding still.
I ran H HoR using a 2H then did H PoS DWing with the EXACT same group - I grab more threat when DWing.
So.... yea, my opinion is -for the moment- it still depends on which you prefer.
I've been feeling bad about neglecting diseases since 4.xx hit but ever since I read this my OVERALL tanking has improved greatly.
You get more threat out of DSing more instead of spreading diseases which by the way consumes 3 GCDs... that's insane.. with all the fury wars and rets out there how am I to keep face as a tank?
Just do DS, RS and spam HS on trash while cycling through targets and u'll be fine. you get more mitigation out of it. Once I get outbreak I wont even bother with diseases, in case you really need them for Cata.

FFS, roll the RS change already so I can feel like a normal DK.

Also, I hate that Death Strike and IMP DS is broken so badly. Worst thing is it's not in out advantage either... I mean look at bears... I know they got nerfed but still.
Blizz fix imp DS!
Lich - great post, I've enjoyed reading your ideas on the cata forums as well.

DRW glyph is a tank switch ability. On fights like Ice Watcher I float runic power, taunt, DRW, ERW, spam abilities like crazy. Massive threat lead, and you soften the damage intake on the tank switch so healers have some breathing room.

It's also great for picking up adds. DRW + DnD = quick snap AoE threat.

I agree though, you shouldn't rely on this as a regular cooldown. Situational, but I see the situation it's useful in popping up a lot.
I've been reading the posts about DW vs 2H.
I can honestly sit here and tell you I have higher threat Duel Wielding still.
I ran H HoR using a 2H then did H PoS DWing with the EXACT same group - I grab more threat when DWing.
So.... yea, my opinion is -for the moment- it still depends on which you prefer.


Being able to have threat ahead of dps on quick fights is fine. You likely felt like you had more because you can ramp up the threat a little faster due to more white hits.
For sustained TPS though, there's no way dual-wielding would keep up.

I know a lot of the meter addons have a threat metric. Watch that on a raid boss as 2H then dual, I'll bet you see a significant difference.
So you're taking a talent like Blood Parasite that does very little overall damage, and even less healing because the guardians it spawns rarely every reach 20 stacks to proc the heal over a talent like Crimson Scourge for something that you'll actually use, even if only for trash.

Hand of Doom could be quite useful on caster heavy raids, and it brings more utility than Blood Parasites too...

Now, if they ever decide to let the Blood Worms explode with how ever many stacks they have when they dissipate or are killed, then it would be another story.
kudos for the guide, I agree in many aspects of it, yet have a few questions too.

A: you say that any threat problems we may have will disapear once the new RS and Imp BP go live. I am aware of the RS on beta (wich no longer requires to dodge or parry, making it MUCH more usefull) but what is that "Imp BP" you speak of? this may be a silly question, but I haven't been much informed of recent changes and my grasp for achronyms sucks......... <.<
>.>

B: why is Crimson Scourge so worthless? since frost tanking is no longer viable, our "Snap AOE" Threat is a goner, thus we rely on BB to do AOE aggro, and let's face it, untalented it does a laughable damage, the talent makes it at least a bit more decent at it. I'm not 100% sure that D&D can completely hold our AOE threat, some classes (frost DK's and ret pallys in particular) can do a really nasty AOE that can suck up aggro like gummy bears, D&D generates a good theat, but over time, not imidietly, if a Frost DK on my group opens up with 2 howling blasts that crit for 10k, the 2 ticks of D&D wont be enough, not by a long shot.

C: is the damage/Threat of the diseases has gotten so bad that we can actually forget about them entirely? I mean, in the case of prot warriors, the bleeds procced by thunderclap deal a laughable damage too, but they deal damage, and thus generate AOE aggro that all tanks so badly crave. not having those 2 dots on all the mobs is really a good idea? the trade-off is a single-target skill that indeed boosts our survival with the healing and shielding, so I won't argue that on bosses diseases are a no-no, but in trash packs, is it really a good idea to ditch them?

overall, really nice guide.

Thumbs up.


Couple of answers I can give hopefully.

A. I believe by imp BP he's just talking about them changing the talent so that you can runestrike in blood presence without dodge/parry

B. I currently use it now because in ICC the general theory is "gather up as much *%@% as you see, aoe it down". Hopefully if blizzard does what they say they will there will be much more CC and focus firing going on in both heroics and raids making heart strike (3 targets) more threat for the same rune cost

C. Again, on live servers I usually keep at least frost fever up just as habit. In the world of cata, you'll have outbreak which lets you drop both disease at once on a 1 min Cd and disease last for around 30 seconds. Meaning that even if u you don't re-apply them you still have around a 50% up time at 0 rune cost.
The major reason for not keeping them up is the fact that you get an extra DS in essence a 14000 heal (on beta) at least perhaps more if you've been taking damage and in addition to the heal a shield which absorbs upwards of 90% of that heal.
kudos for the guide, I agree in many aspects of it, yet have a few questions too.

A: you say that any threat problems we may have will disapear once the new RS and Imp BP go live. I am aware of the RS on beta (wich no longer requires to dodge or parry, making it MUCH more usefull) but what is that "Imp BP" you speak of? this may be a silly question, but I haven't been much informed of recent changes and my grasp for achronyms sucks......... <.<
>.>

B: why is Crimson Scourge so worthless? since frost tanking is no longer viable, our "Snap AOE" Threat is a goner, thus we rely on BB to do AOE aggro, and let's face it, untalented it does a laughable damage, the talent makes it at least a bit more decent at it. I'm not 100% sure that D&D can completely hold our AOE threat, some classes (frost DK's and ret pallys in particular) can do a really nasty AOE that can suck up aggro like gummy bears, D&D generates a good theat, but over time, not imidietly, if a Frost DK on my group opens up with 2 howling blasts that crit for 10k, the 2 ticks of D&D wont be enough, not by a long shot.

C: is the damage/Threat of the diseases has gotten so bad that we can actually forget about them entirely? I mean, in the case of prot warriors, the bleeds procced by thunderclap deal a laughable damage too, but they deal damage, and thus generate AOE aggro that all tanks so badly crave. not having those 2 dots on all the mobs is really a good idea? the trade-off is a single-target skill that indeed boosts our survival with the healing and shielding, so I won't argue that on bosses diseases are a no-no, but in trash packs, is it really a good idea to ditch them?

overall, really nice guide.

Thumbs up.


Couple of answers I can give hopefully.

A. I believe by imp BP he's just talking about them changing the talent so that you can runestrike in blood presence without dodge/parry

B. I currently use it now because in ICC the general theory is "gather up as much *%@% as you see, aoe it down". Hopefully if blizzard does what they say they will there will be much more CC and focus firing going on in both heroics and raids making heart strike (3 targets) more threat for the same rune cost

C. Again, on live servers I usually keep at least frost fever up just as habit. In the world of cata, you'll have outbreak which lets you drop both disease at once on a 1 min Cd and disease last for around 30 seconds. Meaning that even if u you don't re-apply them you still have around a 50% up time at 0 rune cost.
The major reason for not keeping them up is the fact that you get an extra DS in essence a 14000 heal (on beta) at least perhaps more if you've been taking damage and in addition to the heal a shield which absorbs upwards of 90% of that heal.


A. No, the Imp Blood Presence he is talking about also lets your Runes regen 20% faster on beta. They added in this haste for your runes since there is no haste on tanking gear. This will give you more hits and threat problems will be lessened by it.
Love it +Like :D
Keep it up!

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