Crit for Prot Warriors 5.4

Warrior
So with prot warriors not doing so much damage and the coming of riposte in 5.4, is it viable for prot warriors to equip gear with crit on it? I think it would help with damage and threat, but I'd love to hear some more opinions!
Not really. Riposte is meant to give incentives to avoidance, not crit (you'll notice it's avoidance gives extra crit, not the other way around).

And threat isn't anything you should need help with since the tank threat modifier is being buffed to 700% next patch. Damage, yeah, but honestly even 30% crit won't make Prot catch up to the other tanks, it requires flat scaling buffs to main abilities.
Good for PvP Prot so I gem all Crit, Stam should be great since crit is essential for Enrage procs and Free Heroic strike crits in 5.4
If you are having trouble with threat you are doing something wrong (Unless hunter has pet taunt on or whatever)

The people talking about gemming crit next patch aren't referring to Riposte (although that is part of the reason), it has little to do with us doing "moar damagez".

It's because of the changes to shield slam and devastate. Now that they 100% have a chance to trigger enrage on crit that means we will be able to generate rage very, very quickly if we stack crit which = more active mitigation(S: Block/S: Barrier). Similar to why pallies are stacking haste now because they can generate Holy Power faster.

Basically this also turns recklessness into an "oh sht I need rage really quick" survival CD for us, Riposte will help a lot and stacking crit will be what a lot of the top end warriors are doing (especially in 10 man where survivability is a bit easier).

Some have already completely changed their gear in preparation of 5.4. Of course at the start of 5.4 most warriors will still be either stacking stam or mastery, but I think after a while most will start leaning towards crit which is exactly what happened with paladins and haste.
The way I figured with my BiS gear (Mastery>, after Hit/Exp) is only two pieces will have crit. Bracers and Pants. Only because they both have alot of Mastery on them to help you hit 100% Mastery. Because our Tier doesn't have Mastery on them, and there is no Heroic WF pants for a Tank.
As of right now, pure avoidance gemming for 5.4 is most beneficial for pve. Riposte was a great addition, but like Kanga said, dont expect to out dps the other tanks just yet.
BiS gemming is Mastery not Parry or Dodge.
BiS gearing will actually likely favor a more avoidance heavy build in 5.4 for the added benefit of extra Enrage procs and the extra damage.
BiS gearing will actually likely favor a more avoidance heavy build in 5.4 for the added benefit of extra Enrage procs and the extra damage.


Possible in 25's, in 10's you're still not gaining enough DPS to matter, and the tradeoff you're making (not zerging Mastery like it's going out of style) is a pretty sizeable defensive difference.
I know for 25s I'll be dropping most of my stam for Parry. Don't need the stam gearing so far, it's really just in excess.

My gearing on the PTR put me at around 37% parry (went full parry, could optimize DR, but Hold the Line is tantalizing), a loss of 4% block, but raid buffed around 40% crit in the new normal mode tier.

Full parry likely isn't optimized. On 25 I will need more stam for some fights (Heroic Nazgrim, Iron Juggernaut etc). But many tank debuffs will be avoidable which is more icing on the cake.

Will have to see what eventually becomes optimal. 10 man tanking has always differed, so obviously I'm talking 25s in regards to this.

In regards to the actual main question:

If you want crit the best way to go about it while getting the most from the prot warrior changes will be through Riposte. If a piece is well itemized and happens to have Crit on it it won't be the end of the world, use it. But expect DPS to want it as well.
I know for 25s I'll be dropping most of my stam for Parry. Don't need the stam gearing so far, it's really just in excess.

My gearing on the PTR put me at around 37% parry (went full parry, could optimize DR, but Hold the Line is tantalizing), a loss of 4% block, but raid buffed around 40% crit in the new normal mode tier.

Full parry likely isn't optimized. On 25 I will need more stam for some fights (Heroic Nazgrim, Iron Juggernaut etc). But many tank debuffs will be avoidable which is more icing on the cake.

Will have to see what eventually becomes optimal. 10 man tanking has always differed, so obviously I'm talking 25s in regards to this.

In regards to the actual main question:

If you want crit the best way to go about it while getting the most from the prot warrior changes will be through Riposte. If a piece is well itemized and happens to have Crit on it it won't be the end of the world, use it. But expect DPS to want it as well.


Holy smokes 37% parry? Also is that 40% crit with Riposte up?
We'll likely see around 45% crit with Heroic gear in a gear setup like this. Noteably River's Song becomes our best tank enchant, out stripping Dancing Steel as well. Simmed at 1% or 2% crit just from the dodge. Can't remember the exact number.

Holy smokes 37% parry? Also is that 40% crit with Riposte up?


Yes, I do not gear crit in any way (as there is none on my gear at present). If a piece is well itemized with crit, avoidance or mastery on it I would not hesitate to use it.
We'll likely see around 45% crit with Heroic gear in a gear setup like this. Noteably River's Song becomes our best tank enchant, out stripping Dancing Steel as well. Simmed at 1% or 2% crit just from the dodge. Can't remember the exact number.

Holy smokes 37% parry? Also is that 40% crit with Riposte up?


Yes, I do not gear crit in any way (as there is none on my gear at present). If a piece is well itemized with crit, avoidance or mastery on it I would not hesitate to use it.


Wow ok. So you have 5877 parry 4337 dodge = 10214 to crit right. Also is the uptime constant then with high avoidance?
Also is the uptime constant then with high avoidance?


While tanking and getting hit Riposte does not fall off. It lasts long enough that with high avoidance you are almost guaranteed to avoid in the time-frame to refresh it. During tank swaps it obviously falls off and we revert to our old tricks to keep DPS as high as possible such as Safeguarding for Vengeance.

Wow ok. So you have 5877 parry 4337 dodge = 10214 to crit right.


My current gear does not reflect this setup as it is unideal until 5.4. These numbers are from PTR testing in SOO normal mode tier gear. I am fully gemmed parry on PTR, whereas on live I am still geared towards Stamina for 25H tanking. And 10214 for my current setup is incorrect. It takes 75% of your total avoidance, not 100%.
So with prot warriors not doing so much damage and the coming of riposte in 5.4, is it viable for prot warriors to equip gear with crit on it?


I would guess no, because avoidance gear will give you avoidance AND crit, while crit gear will only give you crit. The intent is for it to be a DPS buff without requiring regearing, I think, not to change gear priorities. So it will reduce the DPS gap between warriors/DKs who might gear avoidance, and all the other tanks that are gearing crit or haste.

Capping Hit/Exp/Mastery would probably be more important than either, though.
For 25 mans my preliminary gearing priorities will be:

Hit/Exp (hard capped exp) > Parry > Dodge > Mastery > Crit for pure survival.
Hit/Exp (hard capped exp) > Parry > Dodge > Crit > Mastery for highest possible output.

We have a lot of interesting trinket choices, and in a 25 man setting most of my stamina for unavoidable boss attacks will come from this.

You could min max the Parry/Dodge to maintain a proper Diminishing Return ratio, but the difference is very slight and at the expense of Hold the Line procs. We also need more Parry than Dodge in regards to DR anyways. Mathematically looking at Enrage procs it will be more efficient to get Enraged from a Crit SS or Devastate as opposed to the amt of Crit Block (Mastery) needed to do it from a block standpoint.

In terms of damage smoothing there are some interesting threads over in the MMO Champion Warrior forums in regards to how much mastery we will want.

This is preliminary, however PTR testing has shown it as viable as mentioned above.

You could min max the Parry/Dodge to maintain a proper Diminishing Return ratio, but the difference is very slight and at the expense of Hold the Line procs. We also need more Parry than Dodge in regards to DR anyways. Mathematically looking at Enrage procs it will be more efficient to get Enraged from a Crit SS or Devastate as opposed to the amt of Crit Block (Mastery) needed to do it from a block standpoint.

In terms of damage smoothing there are some interesting threads over in the MMO Champion Warrior forums in regards to how much mastery we will want.


Dodge will usually be better than Parry. The amount of Strength you get on SoO gear is monstrous. It takes a huge amount of Dodge rating before you can even consider Parry rating (7200 dodge roughly cancels out 20K Strength). Whilst you're correct that you'll be losing HtL procs, you lose total Revenge refreshes by not maximizing your avoidance.

Admittedly, its fairly hard to balance Dodge (Parry is more plentiful) but if you're going the full avoidance route I would attempt to prioritize it anyways.
If you want crit the best way to go about it while getting the most from the prot warrior changes will be through Riposte. If a piece is well itemized and happens to have Crit on it it won't be the end of the world, use it. But expect DPS to want it as well.


As a minor aside, I really wish Blizzard made Avoidance/Mastery pieces more plentiful in Siege; you're either getting Accuracy/Mastery or Crit/Mastery or Haste/Mastery. (there's literally one piece I've been able to find that's Avoid/Mastery on loot tables, and our helm is Parry/Mast as well).

I get that it's a pretty narrow gear schema...but you guys still have Int plate and Agility daggers. Don't see what's so hard to at least have more than one or two pieces with those stats on them >_>;

10man BiS listing (that I and a few others have worked on and shall post later in the evening) has two or three pieces that are Crit/Mast, putting you at odds with Frost DKs and Fury (and possibly Arms) Warriors, and maybe even Ret Paladins (aren't they probably haste capping this tier?), which isn't bad, but still. Those pieces are gonna be hotly contested.

I'd be interested in working on a 25man BiS listing; I admittedly don't run them so I'd require talking to somebody who actually runs them with any sense of regularity to make.

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