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Warrior
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01/23/2011 9:28 PMPosted by Ttayw
well, tonights raid confirmed my suspicions. i reforged and gemmed and got my expertise from 1 or 2 up to 12, and my threat went up considerably, which helped me ( and the raid) out alot. SO... anyone that wants to rely strictly on vengeance to get your threat thats fine if its working for you. I on the other hand, am going to keep trying to get more expertise to close in on that 26 soft cap and still maintain my survivability. from personal experience i just cannot believe expertise doesnt matter.


Not saying you are wrong, but make sure you aren't letting bias reflect your judgment. You make it sound like you went in expecting it to help you out a lot, so of course that's what you will lean towards thinking, even if it really isn't doing that much. My vengeance caps out at +15000 atk power. Just one landed attack makes up more than enough for any misses. I've seen up to 60k shield slams from it. Also consider that even if you have a super dps that is constantly riding your threat, its just 1 person. Just increasing one persons dps isn't going to mean a whole lot, especially if you have more than enough time to kill the boss (no healer oom/enrage).
no you bring up valid points for sure. i actually made the changes without saying anything to the raid or guildies. i actually got kudos from the dps during the night ( pretty much all night) over how much my threat had increased from one raid week to the next. the only thing i changed was increasing my expertise.
I have like 1% hit and 6 expertise (I try to reforge out of it but due to gear I can't get rid of any more). I end up doing about 5k DPS (I don't have a heroic 1-hander... BAD LUCK in heroics!)

Anyway, I was one of the two tanks for Argaloth and Four Winds last night. I had absolutely zero problem stealing aggro from the other tank for Argaloth, and not once did I lose aggro for FW.

Our DPS is doing 10-15k.

That being said, I was having trouble holding aggro on the elementals in Heroic Vortex Pinnacle last night with a our guild's fury warrior doing 15k. I think the main reason was him attacking immediately AND that we had NO crowd control for the elementals. I was charging, intercepting, intervening, and heroic leaping my ASS off trying to control all the mobs.

I expect that to become easier with a heroic weapon.
"•A bug has been fixed where the Shield Block ability granted 25% more critical block chance than was intended for Protection warriors with very high total chance to avoid attacks."

Does this affect the importance of Mastery for us in any way?

As a question, I'm currently sat at 9.40% dodge, 13.93% parry, 50.56% block (20.07 mastery) and 156k health buffed. I feel as if my dodge is a bit low but am a bit reluctant to drop any mastery in order to increase it. A lot of warrior tanks are telling me that its strictly Mastery > Parry > Dodge and that's that. Any thoughts?

Also, my hit is at +2.67% and expertise is 12. At first I thought this would greatly effect my tps but as it seems with Vengeance I keep it with ease, way above anyone else. Is it right not to worry too much about hit and exp? Or should i.
01/27/2011 2:17 PMPosted by Notankyou
As a question, I'm currently sat at 9.40% dodge, 13.93% parry, 50.56% block (20.07 mastery) and 156k health buffed. I feel as if my dodge is a bit low but am a bit reluctant to drop any mastery in order to increase it. A lot of warrior tanks are telling me that its strictly Mastery > Parry > Dodge and that's that. Any thoughts?

Also, my hit is at +2.67% and expertise is 12. At first I thought this would greatly effect my tps but as it seems with Vengeance I keep it with ease, way above anyone else. Is it right not to worry too much about hit and exp? Or should i.


You could probably change some of those pure +Stam gems to +stam/mastery or +stam/parry.

Also, your bracers could be +Dodge and your hands could be +Mastery.

Your base health at 156k is nice, but if you reduce it by 2-3k you could add another 1-2% block fairly easily by exchanging gems.

*edit* yes I know I have pure stam gems, but I also have less unbuffed health than you, and ~48% block is fine for now given the raid content I'm tanking.
im at 12.64% dodge and 14.33% parry, and 38% block, im wondering how much dodge/parry do i need
01/29/2011 10:00 PMPosted by Koruun
im at 12.64% dodge and 14.33% parry, and 38% block, im wondering how much dodge/parry do i need


Your mastery is very low, I would try to get that up a little. Never reforge your mastery into parry and dodge as you have done. Honestly you don't "need" any more dodge and parry.

Those will come naturally on your gear just like Stam. I'm sitting at 12.03% Dodge 12.02% Parry and 51.40% Block and have reforged Dodge/Parry/Haste/Crit all for +529 Mastery and +50 Hit.

Maximize your mastery and try to get your Parry:Dodge as close to 1:1 as you can, if not keeping Parry slightly higher.
well parry should always be above dodge with hold the line, and thanks very much for the help
Is there a certain point where you have so much unbuffed HP that u should stop gemming with stam(red slot: 20 parry/30 stam) and just go with straight avoidance(red slot: 20 parry/20 mastery)? Or just always go with a gem that has an avoidance stat and stam?
01/30/2011 10:39 PMPosted by Rakbar
Is there a certain point where you have so much unbuffed HP that u should stop gemming with stam(red slot: 20 parry/30 stam) and just go with straight avoidance(red slot: 20 parry/20 mastery)? Or just always go with a gem that has an avoidance stat and stam?


IMHO, stam is still important (at least, what I mean is it's not irrelevant). Therefore, that 20 extra parry or 20 extra mastery you would get won't do much. However, If you pair an avoidance stat with +30 stam that adds up to 7-10 gems that have +30 stam... which is approximately 5k hp. Not a ton, I guess, but a little more breathing room.

01/30/2011 11:15 PMPosted by Worgentraill
just hit 85 am i doing it right?


Looking real good.

-Reforge more of your hit into Mastery (instead of dodge/parry if it's not already on the item like your shoulders).
-Work towards Therazane exalted so you can get the head/shoulder enchants.
-Enchant gloves with +mastery
-Get rid of those +60stam gems in favor of +mastery/stam gems.

That should get your block up to 43-45%. Good start for heroics!
Would it be reasonable to use Earthen Gauntlets and Earthen Legplates as tanking gear instead of the iLvl 346 JP/Heroic Dungeon gear if I gemmed, enchanted, and reforged them?

EDIT : I already have them from Baradin Hold.
Without running numbers or showing crazy long mathematics , I would have to disagree very much with people running away from hit/exp cap. While it is certainly not mandatory anymore (since taunt can't miss), missing attacks will always result in lower dps, tps and make you appear to be a worse tank overall. I have put a lot of effort into getting near expertise soft-cap and hit cap, without sacrificing avoidance or stamina. The result is that my avoidance is only slightly lower, if at all, than others of appropriate gearing. I am not at cap, but am very close. I regularly defeat other DPS classes on the damage meters without losing threat or taking excessive damage. I am not saying that you guys are wrong, just that to disqualify hit and expertise out of hand is not a very intelligent thing to do. I firmly believe the minimal gains to avoidance are not worth a chance to miss with your Inner Rage-Heavy Repercussions Shield Slam 70k+ crit =)
01/31/2011 1:54 PMPosted by Smallviille
btw thats my alt just wanted a second opinion. thanks for the tips.
so reforge the hit to dodge or parry since hit is on the shoulders?
im still new to tanking. so any help is good LOL.
whats funny is im exlated with all the factions on this toon but my alt still cant use them till revered and they are BoA enchants, well helm is.


Yes, reforge all hit and exp away to mastery first. If mastery is an already-existing stat, go parry. It's been shown the DR on parry is negligible until you hit the high teens.

02/01/2011 1:16 AMPosted by Sarindra
Without running numbers or showing crazy long mathematics , I would have to disagree very much with people running away from hit/exp cap.


I respectfully disagree, and I think you'll find that 99% of the time the majority of tanks who have done the math and who tank raids will disagree with you as well. As a tank, DPS is not your job. It is an expectation and duty of a tank to maximize his or her effective health.

You having only 44% block is pretty sketchy, considering you could easily reforge all your hit/exp and get over 50%. You aren't even at the 75% threshold for mitigation (+25% shield block = 100% "unhittable" [yes I know it's actually 102.something%])

Regarding threat: vengeance. End of discussion.

Admittedly, I've missed on interrupting things in the past that have caused wipes (e.g. Baron Ashbury). However, in a raid scenario, I don't have interrupting duty, so that is moot.
Ah, I apologize. I did not mean to sound like I was worrying about DPSing as a tank. That is definitely not what I was getting at. My main argument is that hit/exp is still an excellent stat to have. While gemming/enchanting for it may be excessive, it should not be all reforged away into something else...
Would it be reasonable to use Earthen Gauntlets and Earthen Legplates as tanking gear instead of the iLvl 346 JP/Heroic Dungeon gear if I gemmed, enchanted, and reforged them?

EDIT : I already have them from Baradin Hold.
yah it seems better actualy.

Im new but having the full set of earthen seems way awsome. 18 second shield wall any one?!

ALso the armor stam and mastry seems high on earthen so i would try to get it.

Again im realy bad, I could very well be missing somthing huge.

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