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Should I stop stacking Mastery after 50% block chance?
02/26/2011 8:03 PMPosted by Howardö
Should I stop stacking Mastery after 50% block chance?


Depends on a few things. Like we've said throughout the whole thread, it's a balance issue, not a "stacking" question. I can't see your set-up, but I would aim for 75-77% total mitigation/avoidance and then turn to hybrid gems (e.g. puissant dream emeralds with 20mastery/30stam). But ultimately it's a judgement call, depending on the kind of fights you're doing.

I've got my base block up to 53% with 15 parry/10 dodge... But at the same time I only have 142k health unbuffed. I don't think it matters much, though, because I'd rather have the extra block because when I tank I am the off-tank and usually have add duty. Higher mitigation/avoidance when you have 9 aberrations hitting you is way more useful than having another ~5k health.
so ive been losing a lot of dodge rating because new drops i got from raids, now im at 10.37% dodge; 16.01% parry; 47.09% block. should i consider reforge parry/mastery into dodge?? Puissant Dream Emerald (mastery/stam) has been my fav gem so far.
BTW, im just talking about raiding, idc about heroics anymore :)
so ive been losing a lot of dodge rating because new drops i got from raids, now im at 10.37% dodge; 16.01% parry; 47.09% block. should i consider reforge parry/mastery into dodge?? Puissant Dream Emerald (mastery/stam) has been my fav gem so far.
BTW, im just talking about raiding, idc about heroics anymore :)


You'll find conflicting opinions about parry/dodge ratios, but in my opinion, hold the line is valuable and you should have your Parry as high as possible without reforging dodge -> parry. It should be valued above Mastery.

I wrote a post, probably a few pages back, about the diminishing returns of dodge and parry. It was minuscule...

Scenario:
Pre-existing stats: 14 parry, 10 dodge
Say I was reforging 100 hit into 40 dodge or 40 parry. Reforging to dodge you get +0.21% dodge. Reforging to Parry you get +0.20% parry. It's a matter of 0.01%. (numbers are made up, but the representation of the DR is accurate).
You expect DR, and you do see it, it's just completely irrelevant until you reach higher levels.
14.00 Dodge
12.18 Parry
48.56 Block

Should I reforge the Dodge ---> Parry?
I don't know how to get parry higher than dodge right now without doing that ><
or Reforge Mastery --> Parry?
02/28/2011 9:35 PMPosted by Sproodle
please update your guide on the items mate.


What are you talking about, troll? There haven't been any changes to Prot mechanics, therefore no changes in gear optimization.
~slams head against wall~

This is frustrating as all hell does ANYONE have some DECENT proof as to what %percentages we should be looking for in dodge and parry before we start stacking mastery?

Ive looked everywere and i cant find a single piece of conclusive evidence on the subject.

Could you link the website for the graphs from the OP if possible.

Thanks.

~slams head against wall~

This is frustrating as all hell does ANYONE have some DECENT proof as to what %percentages we should be looking for in dodge and parry before we start stacking mastery?

Ive looked everywere and i cant find a single piece of conclusive evidence on the subject.

Could you link the website for the graphs from the OP if possible.

Thanks.


Wow, relax, brah. If you read the thread, you would know that it's a BALANCE between everything.

There are way too many variables to come to conclusive results. However, if you're looking for hard evidence, this is as close to it as you're going to find:
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t110315-[cataclysm]_protection_warrior/p11/
That displays optimal parry:dodge ratio based on mastery level.
03/02/2011 11:38 AMPosted by Zeallot
This is frustrating as all hell does ANYONE have some DECENT proof as to what %percentages we should be looking for in dodge and parry before we start stacking mastery?


I think you might be a little confused on what each avoidance stat does, and as a result might be a little confused on how to prioritize them.

Mastery: For Protection Warriors it increases the chance of critical block. Each point of Mastery increases your block chance by an additional 1.5% and your critical block chance by an additional 1.5%.

Block: A regular block absorbs 30% of the incoming damage, and a critical block does the double amount, which is 60%.
-30%, or -60% damage

Parry: A successful parry reduces the damage received by the current swing by 50%, and also reduces the damage received from the second swing by 50%. Parry also has a chance to proc the ‘Hold the Line’ talent, which increases your critical block chance by 10% after a successful parry. (This could have been changed to just reducing damage by 100% for one attack, but with the changes to the forums I wasn't able to find a blue post to confirm it)
-50% damage over two attacks, or -100% damage over one attack

Dodge: Reduced damage received on the current attack by 100%.
-100% damage for 1 attack

Now that we have identified the main mitigation stats, we can examine them in order of priority. Mastery is by far your most important stat, since there are currently no diminishing returns on it. With mastery, you are able to increase your block chance up to 102.5%, which is the block cap. Once you reach the Block cap with Mastery you have maximized your mitigation. Each melee swing from this point will either be blocked, Critically Blocked, Parried, or Dodged.

Now that you have guaranteed mitigation on each attack (much like armor mitigates damage) you can focus on your two remaining stats Parry and Dodge, both of which do have diminishing returns. Of the two however, parry is superior because in addition to mitigating the same amount of damage, it also has a chance to increase your critical block by 10%, further mitigating future damage, and increasing your overall EH.

So, in a very long and round about way, you asked at what point you should stop worrying about Parry and Dodge to focus on mastery. Instead, you should focus on Mastery up to 102.5% block chance, and then look at dodge and parry.

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110338-cataclysm_tanking_protection_field_manual_updated_feb_9_2011_4_0_6_a/
Now that we’ve identified how stats operate, we can look at them in a more practical application. Obtaining a base Block chance of 102.5% would be rather difficult with current gear. However we can use talents and trinkets to optimize our overall EH.

Shield Block Now increases your block chance by 25% for 10 seconds, however if your total avoidance exceeds 100%, it will count towards critical block.
e.g. You have 50% block, 25% parry, and 25% dodge, your Shield Block will increase critical block by 25%.

However, a more likely scenario is that you have something more similar to myself (I use me as an example because, well its an easy example) Currently I have 47.5% block, 18% parry, and 10% dodge. This brings my total avoidance to 75.5% avoidance. Now, when I hit my Shield Block my avoidance is increased to 100.5% for the duration of Shield Block. As a result I am 2% avoidance away from hitting the block cap.

This will probably chance as gear progresses, and you are able to boost your block chance through mastery up to 102.5% without the utilization of skills / trinkets, but this should give you a general idea of how to weigh your stats.
I must say the old debate over hit/exp cap has proven itself to me. It is true that no caps won't hurt your threat very much. Last week I did a PUG 10 man with 3 people doing over 35k DPS on Halfus (150% dmg buff is mean), and I didn't drop threat on the boss, though it came close a few times.
It is obvious that blizz wants tanks to stay with mitigation only, since the more epics I get (badge epics...my guild no longer raids qq) the lower my exp/hit goes. I'm finding no gear with support to my want for more expertise, and it's simply impossible to even maintain a decent hit rating...at this point I'm just trying to stay above 10 exp rating.
My main issue is that my damage taken has decreased marginally (about 1-2% overall from the last time I raided [w/ exp soft cap and 6% hit]), and my overall DPS on bosses has dropped by about 5k+ for raid bosses, and about 2-3k for 5 man content. Last time I did Halfus I pulled 12k DPS I think, and this past time I was at 7k.
This is not an important issue as far as tanking mechanics go, I know; I'm just grumpy that Blizz is forcing this down my throat... Everything seems to be awesome advice on the thread so far. One issue I may have misread, a blue gem that's not pure stam???
03/04/2011 7:07 AMPosted by Sarindra
This is not an important issue as far as tanking mechanics go, I know; I'm just grumpy that Blizz is forcing this down my throat... Everything seems to be awesome advice on the thread so far. One issue I may have misread, a blue gem that's not pure stam???


I find that if I put Vigilance on either a Melee DPS or the off-tank, I can taunt to my heart's desire, which helps a lot.

Also, yes, you have almost 160k base health, which is nice, but your mitigation/avoidance is... mediocre. You have some great gear. If you would just replace all your blue +60stam gems with Puissant Dreams you'd only lose ~5k health but it would put you above 50% block , easily.

My personal approach is that I have 52% block, 15% parry, 10% dodge, and everything else from now on is going to be concentrated on increasing my base health pool.
I'm running the following macro:

/run b=GetBlockChance() d=GetDodgeChance() p=GetParryChance() m=5 if UnitRace("player")=="Night Elf" then m=m+2 end a=m+d+p+b DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(a.."% Avoidance")

Re-Edit: Found a much better looking macro. I have a question though to all you number-crunchers out there. Is this macro accurate?
Running this macro I have 78.45% Avoidance w/o Shield Block (103.45% w/ shield block)
@ Sarindra: Yeah, u should change those +60 stam gems for hybrid ones. It helps a lot for mitigation and your healers will thank you.

I have one question about the tree building. Should we spend 3 points on Incite yet? Since the nerf to Heroic Strike im not sure if its a boost to our threat anymore.
How bout my set up? I'm double checking if I'm actually going with the current flow (I have been working on Tides heroic to get porcelain crab to replace Despair trinket, no luck but i got thunder call). I'm trying to re perfect prot tanking, since I have a good grasp on arms pve and pve and a very good grasp on fury.
My talent tree is really jacked up right now, I'm experimenting with AOE tank loadout, and I don't like my current spec at all.
Alford - I have always put points into Incite, and it's not as awesome since Blizzard nerfed Heroic Strike damage, but I still like it. I think it's worth it, but there's certainly other ways to spend your points, Safeguard is an under-appreciated talent imo...
Maniphesto - Not having Heavy Repercussions is perilous, it makes up a lot of our damage, both in single target fights and AOE fights.
Vigilance is still an optional talent to me, since it doesn't reduce damage anymore. 90% of fights aren't going to allow a tank to drop vengeance, so it's a minor bonus at best... Unless you rely on taunt always being up, I would drop it.

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