Protection TPS (Threat per Second) Needs Fix.

Paladin
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Hello fellow pallies, I hope that we can catch the eye of a blue or someone that matters with this.

Have you guys noticed how since WotLK our threat generation has been degrading? to the point of being in MoP. Being in a raid with any other tank as offtank or co-tank, on AoE pulls or Trash pulls, the other classes press 2 buttons and they have aggro all day, while us, following any of the known rotations we can't do anything about it anymore.

I remember back in the day there was nothing any other tank could do to take aggro from us but to taunt. Now it's us taunting every 8 secs on trash pulls because no matter who's there by your side, if it's a non-pally tank they will generate more threat than you.

Tonight I was talking to some guys on the server Stormrage (US), because I have a toon over there, and the feedback I got was really lame, the 5 guys I talked to were upset at how even now in single target fights in SoO they were losing threat to druids, dks, monks, etc.

I wonder why is blizzard doing this to us? do they even know? I wonder because I'd like to think that they aren't destroying our spec on purpose, I'd like to think that they haven't noticed.

Last time I checked, the most played classes in this game were Hunters > Paladins > DKs... why would they screw up 1 of their most played classes? do they want people to stop playing their main toons? or maybe just to have them stop paying their sub and go play a different game?

I have played this game for almost 7 years, and I never found myself on the position of being thinking of other games as options because Blizzard have gradually destroyed the Protection spec for paladins.

Now, I know there will be people who will disagree or they'll just want to troll, I do not care for them. But for all the other paladins out there who feel the same way I do.

If you guys feel the same way please leave your feedback here, maybe at some point someone important will read this and they'll actually look into it, though I don't hold any high hopes after seeing what Blizzard has done to us Paladins since the end of WotLK.

I would like to play my paladin again, but earlier in MoP I switched to another toon because I got tired of how the other tanking classes had such a superior threat generation compared to ours. I think it's only fair that if blizzard still want paladins to have a protection spec, to let them tank properly, and by tanking I'm not talking about giving us cooldowns or more self heals. Get our threat generation back up to what it was. We used to be the highest threat generation tanks and it sucks the way it is right now. If not, then at least give us as much threat generation as a DK or Druid has, because you're really taking the fun out of the game for us tanks who really love tanking on a paladin.

Well, like I said, if anyone feels the same way please leave your feedback here, I just hope that someone read this and to have Blizzard say that they are aware of it, or they're looking into it.

Thanks and kuddos to all the pallies who are still tanking out there and putting up with all of this, you guys are great and deserve like the rest of us to have our spec fixed, so that we can be up there with any other tanking classes on the threat generation department.
no?
10/10, keep up the good twerk.
lolwut? I tanked for two weeks in ToT with less gear than the Blood DK main tank and he was always griping about never being able to hold threat off me. I had a 502 weapon and a blue shield against his TF weapon and would effortlessly pull off him.

So, yeah, what the hell have you been doing wrong? o_O
So for one thing, with a 700% threat multiplier and Vengeance, holding aggro from the DPS should be well beyond trivial. And if the other tank is pulling threat from you when they aren't supposed to... they're being stupid, and you should tell them to stop doing that. You're not competing with the other tank for aggro. You're supposed to be working together.

So: Prot vs DPS is a hands-down win for the tank; Prot vs other tanks isn't actually a vs at all so why does it even matter?

And, by the way, Prot threat generation is not even weak in the first place...

Are you building for avoidance instead of haste? Are you hit/exp capped? Neither of those things are at all required for satisfactory threat generation, but they do increase threat output.
I'm sorry to say i've never had a problem with threat, well actually i do, i can't lose threat to other tanks, the only ones who i've seen usually be able to keep up with me are monks and a couple of warriors in my guild, but they have to pop all their cds lol.
Seriously though with Avenger's Shield and consecration i never lose aggro, if i do, an Avenger Shield followed by a Shield of the Righteous is more than enough to bring me back aggro so i can dps a lot more:D
Being hit/exp hard capped prolly helps a lot too, and if you're not going for haste, switch your strat and go for haste, that reduces the cd of most of your abilities with Sanctity of Battle (including Avenger Shield and Consecration), giving you more chances to use them and thus, increasing your dps/tps by a good amount!
09/14/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Ravicana
with a 700% threat multiplier


The way I heard it, it's 500% most of the time, and *1500%* during taunt; the taunt increase stacks *multiplicatively* with RF (and all other tank stance threat modifiers). The reason they made it so massive is to make sure you can get threat off even another tank and hold it unless they taunt back. (At least on that specific mob.)
The way I heard it, it's 500% most of the time

They actually buffed all of the passive stance modifiers to 600% threat as well, in addition to the taunt change.
It was 500% before, but 5.4 also buffed all tank threat by 40%, and 500*1.4 = 700. But yeah, triple that when taunting.
It was 500% before, but 5.4 also buffed all tank threat by 40%, and 500*1.4 = 700. But yeah, triple that when taunting.

It should be 700% if they actually buffed them by 40%, but according to both Wowhead and WoWDB's spell details they all increase threat by 600% now. *shrugs*
A 600% increase means a 700% multiplier. :)
Waaaaait, was it a 400% increase for 500% total before? My memory must be playing tricks on me.
I believe it was 500% total before, not +500%. I might be mistaken.
imo...

The primary issue for paladins & threat is that we're totally at the mercy of vengeance. Our damage is garbage until we break 50-80k vengeance. Last tier, once we broke ~150k+ we were gods. From zero to hero, totally at the mercy of vengeance.

GC has said on twitter that they don't see this issue, but frankly I have difficulty believing that. I could understand not thinking it was an issue, but comparing dual tanking AOE threat on light hitting trash to solo tanking heroic Iron Qon should comfortably demonstrate what's up. So to me the real question is if you think being behind at minimal vengeance is actually a problem.

I'm seeing this exacerbated in SoO at present. I'm relying on taunt to hold any mobs off my similarly geared bear co-tank.

My guild's pattern at present as been:
- I pull
- She (bear) pulls everything off me in 2-3 seconds (possibly including my primary target)
- I taunt to hold threat on 1-2 mobs
- On the bigger trash pulls, she then dies due to over-pulling & I happily solo tank everything due to vengeance boosted EF

Is it a problem? Not really. It's manageable. But I don't think it's a particularly great experience.

We can do our jobs fine, I just think we're too strong in some areas & too ineffectual in others, and this patch has exaggerated it rather than minimising it.
My guild's pattern at present as been:
- I pull
- She (bear) pulls everything off me in 2-3 seconds (possibly including my primary target)
- I taunt to hold threat on 1-2 mobs
- On the bigger trash pulls, she then dies due to over-pulling & I happily solo tank everything due to vengeance boosted EF

i basically experience the exact same pattern with my offside being a monk, as soon as he tosses kegs i loose all threat.
I see some of your points of view guys. The problem is the AoE pulls mostly. On single target it can be managed but for example, have a 471-476 weapon and then go into AoE pull against a DK or Bear or Monk tank... then you'll see what I'm talking about. We have good survivability, but I think the threat gen is weak unless you have insane vengance, like Lakhesis said on her post.

I'm sure the issue is fixable, I just don't see any interest from blizzard's part on all of this on fixing it. I also think threat gen shouldn't be based on how much vengeance or dps the tank is dealing, our spells/habilities should be the only thing that should matter on our threat gen.

I want to thank all of you who took time to write your opinions/idieas here, I'm glad to see so many different points of view and that some of us agree and others don't, it's really nice tbh.

I honestly hope to see this fixed but it probably won't happen. I guess I'll try tanking again, and see how it goes, but tbh, the past experience from tanking on my Paladin, then switching to my druid or dk for other raids... it's obvious that the other classes don't even break a sweat to generate threat fast, as for paladins isn't that easy, not impossible but they do have it easier than us.

Oh and 1 more thing, I really saw it happening like someone here said... I had other tanks died cuz on the initial pull they got all mobs on them (DKs using D&D+BB), that was enough for them to pull everything, as for my part I used AS+SotR+Con+HW... that was like seemless... the other tanks just die, then of course I can tank everything w/o a problem. Had it happened against a druid too and against a monk, more than once. Just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks again and good luck to you all :)
The only thing I hate is pets being able to pull of tanks
Pallys threat gen is fine ! If your having problems its a 100% your fault, without question.

Funny how if ones having issues they're so quick to judge the toon rather than the yourself, after all you are controlling it and gearing etc .. 99% player 1% toon......
still no.
Use Righteous Fury.

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