Broken Imbalanced Hunter Combo

Posts: 8
The UtH deck relies on 2 cards out of 30 to work. The deck also usually packs a bunch of traps for survivability, which means the number of beast cards does have a limit. Even if on turn 8 the player had one UtH (56% or 60% chance), the other 9/10 cards would have to include enough beasts to make the combo work (usually 5).

There are a number of other decks that can beat you in 8 turns with the right cards.
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Posts: 22
The UtH deck is no guaranteed win. Still it's a succesful gimmick but in no way overpowered.

I've personally won and lost a lot of games when either me or my opponent were on less than 5 life.

Sometimes a card is missing (maybe a wolf or a hawk) so I need to go toe-to-toe with the opponent and hit some of his minions as well, thus delaying the fatal blow.

What makes this deck potent is the fact that it effectively counters the current control-oriented meta that's playing at the top. (priests, mages and whatnot)

I think people will need to adapt, as there are many options to overcome UtH. Or maybe hunter should be reworked so it offers new viable tactics.

For the time being though:

starving buzzard - alpha

...............
pain train
...............

unleash the hounds - omega

Kinda sucks being on the receiving end of the Revelation :)
Edited by Theodoro on 10/30/2013 12:48 AM PDT
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Posts: 98
This deck beats the stinky thingy out of the mages and priests. Unfortunately 80% of the players play mages and priests. If a hunter does not have any beast out at turn 3 or 4, GET READY!.

If you are not a control priest or mage (or whatnot), then GG, you are a winner 80%

Working as intended...

(anyway who the hell stops people to change their deck after loosing to a Hunter? Forget control, go full swarm or aggro or whatever and kill the Hunter....
"oh, but there are mages and priests out there and they disintegrate the swarm decks!!!!44!!"

Welcome to the Heroes of METAcraft)
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Posts: 308
Well I just went up against this deck as a paladin. I had the perfect play, defender of Argus my two creatures into 2 taunts. Next turn, buzzard, owl, 2 wolves, 2 dragon hawk, unleashed, GG. That one owl was able to slience one taunt and kill the other by attacking into it.

It's not that this hand might have been lucky, it's that you have no time to react. You control the board, you have decent life, and yet, out of the blue the tables are not only turned but you lost. That is not fun game play. You should be in danger of losing before you lose.

The only really good counter I see is an explosive trap.

If I were to change something, it would probably be to limit unleashed the hounds to a target beast and all adjacent beasts, so 3 targets max (which is only a nerf for this kind of deck, as it is unlikely you would play more than 3 beasts in a single turn anyways).
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Posts: 3,538
This deck beats the stinky thingy out of the mages and priests. Unfortunately 80% of the players play mages and priests. If a hunter does not have any beast out at turn 3 or 4, GET READY!.

If you are not a control priest or mage (or whatnot), then GG, you are a winner 80%

Working as intended...

(anyway who the hell stops people to change their deck after loosing to a Hunter? Forget control, go full swarm or aggro or whatever and kill the Hunter....
"oh, but there are mages and priests out there and they disintegrate the swarm decks!!!!44!!"

Welcome to the Heroes of METAcraft)


Someone else who !@#$ing gets it! Unbeliveable!

You are probably one of my favorite persons around here right now.
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Posts: 172
The argument that taunt somehow fixes this decks issues is pretty ridiculous. A hunter has so many minion control options that clearing the field or at least clearing taunts prior to doing your combo is really not all that difficult.

So yes taunts slow this builds one turn kill power down... slightly, the issue is still that UtH gives charge. Without any way of being able to force players to discard cards the hunter can sit til the perfect pull assuming they hit turn 7/8 using their control this combo becomes nearly unstoppable. The creatures are too cost effective, UtH needs a massive mana cost increase like maybe up to 4 or at the very least 3. It would make this stratagey still viable, and force hunters to think about when they are going to UtH or maybe build decks that don't center around one unstoppable combo, that with tracking and buzzards is extremely easy to fish for.
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Posts: 3,538
10/30/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Duallight
A hunter has so many minion control options that clearing the field


Hunters don't have masssive board wipes. Or at least one that can clear a board full of taunts.

10/30/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Duallight
at least clearing taunts


Make him use his removal on earlygame minions, we HAVE to do it so we stay over 10 HP by turn 7, don't just throw your taunters like that, we don't have endless ammount of removals, we run 6 at best, 2 of them are random, and the other 4 won't kill a taunter for themselves.

10/30/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Duallight
UtH needs a massive mana cost increase like maybe up to 4


Honestly, what would be the point of this? NOBODY would play the card anymore (read, more useless than a Raid Leader), might aswell add a charge and Windfury to Bestial Wrath and Up its cost to 4 and remove UTH entirely.

10/30/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Duallight
It would make this stratagey still viable


It wouldn't, anything over 2 would rip your wings apart, those 1 cost minions don't get played by themselves you know...
Edited by Sharpshooter on 10/30/2013 3:40 PM PDT
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Posts: 3
I don't run uth so maybe that's why I believe it should be nerfed. Its mtg counterpart overwhelm is what five mana? They should just pump up the cost of this card and be done with it.

That said - burn decks kinda force us hunters to play like this. All of our best cards can be effortlessly burned unless we hold onto them long enough for them to be effective. I don't run uth but I still hold my key vulnerable minions whenever I fight a burner.

Like I said pump up the cost of uth and everyone is happy.
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Posts: 3,538
10/30/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Ezra
Its mtg counterpart overwhelm is what five mana?


MGT has a 60 card space, games last a bit longer than what these type of decks can survive in HS.
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Posts: 553
I'm not a pro, far from it, but I think I'm a decent player (platinum 3 starts).

I just played against the Hunter and again, made the ''charge'' trick like all other Hunter in this game... I died obviously like most of the time against this tactic. Then second game, I got to play against a Priest that again, using Mind Control, another cheap tactic.

I realize I'm playing more and more against either the Hunter or the Priest. Two classes that I haven't touched yet. hehe. I know they will be nerfed, so I don't want to get used to overpowered cheap tactics.

I trust Blizzard will do something to balance the cheap tactics that are just too efficient and easily executable at any moment against any opponents.

Despite these two balance issues, the game is fun.
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Posts: 3
Oh I know what you mean, mtg lasts much longer, totally different game - I am suggesting that even one or two more mana would suffice.
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Posts: 178
UtH to a cost of 4 would be completely useless.

But yeah, I would imagine a lot of the complaints come from mages and priests, because those two classes (surprise, the two most popular decks) have the most trouble with this deck due to being more late-game oriented; the rest of the classes have more tools to apply early pressure and it's somewhat easier since they don't have to deal with minions early on.

Warriors have many charge cards and, most importantly, doesn't have to trade with weapons against this deck so they can apply more damage and still have mana to armor up, which makes it even harder to OTK. Also, UtH doesn't have ooze so warrior problems are hardly noticeable when against this deck. Druids have tons of taunts cards, armor from some abilities and can get insane mana resources early. Warlock murloc decks can bypass Explosive Trap due to Blood Imps and other murloc cards that give health, and Voidwalker is a great taunt to play late-game due to its low cost. Paladins have Divine Shield stuff and often have minions that involve buffing, so we waste more removals on them than usual. Can't comment too much on shamans but I know that Feral Spirits are amazing against this deck too. Can't comment on rogues either, hardly ever see them.

Even mages have the tools to deal this deck. Pressure with secrets one by one and force the hunter to try and waste spells or minions, most importantly the two Flares, for those secrets. Force him to use the two flares, then play Ice Block or Frost Barrier. Usually by the time they use this combo they're low on health and your board is full of minions, so it's very likely to come back exactly the turn after with Pyro and your minions.

Priests definitely have a hard time though. SW:P, Holy Nova, MC and SW:D are all not useful against Animal Companion and this deck. Hunters are also not forced to deal with the Cleric early so they don't get the insane early card draws either. But if this is one of the few decks priests have problems with, then that's fine, not all decks and classes can be equally matched with each other.

And that's not including the neutral cards like Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus, both of which are strong cards in general and can fit in many decks.
Edited by Etherlight on 10/30/2013 8:09 PM PDT
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Posts: 166
I lol'd. Even with priest starter decks if you strategize correctly you can manage to get out a 30/30 minion or higher. I've done it on multiple occasions.
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Posts: 3,538
10/30/2013 07:19 PMPosted by Ezra
Oh I know what you mean, mtg lasts much longer, totally different game - I am suggesting that even one or two more mana would suffice.


I'd have to agree, the magic number would be 2, 3 is pushing it too far.
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Posts: 7
I think the problem with an UTH deck is that it relies heavily on RNG. I run one myself and the game is decided more by the cards I pull than anything else. There have been several times I haven't pulled a buzzard, or the guy has had too many taunts and I haven't pulled enough control cards to deal with them all.

The issue with deck complaints is that they can be very specific. "this combo worked on me this one time" is a hard argument to make because that could only have a slight chance of happening,

I believe every class needs a bit of fine tuning and that hunters could do with a few changes to tone down some of their RNG based control (or make it weaker but targeted), however the luck factor does also define the class. I think that's the playstyle that blizz might have been going for when they designed hunters at least anyway.
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Posts: 2,513
I love playing my secret base hunter deck at they charge into a exploding trap and then rage quit. fun fun

But anyways its not UtH they need to nerf its the minions costing 1 mana.

1 mana for a 1/1 WF 1 mana for a 1/1 give all beats +1

even the cards that have you just draw cards cost 2 mana.
Edited by Furydeath on 10/30/2013 11:46 PM PDT
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Posts: 10
The secret to beating this deck (beside explosive trap) is that the longer you take to finish the game the longer the hunter has to sculpt his hand and be able to do the combo. You can be very certain that the hunter most likely had not played out his combo unless you had him for lethal. Thus the faster you put pressure on the faster the hunter has to go for the combo.

Where I stand the biggest problem with this deck is its ability to go around secrets by playing Flare. While I love flare myself the hunter as it is now might not be the class to give the card to. Seeing that the combo is stopped completely by 2 secrets i can name from the top of my head and severely slowed down by most others having the Flare completely removes the only 2 ways to be SURE and i mean 100% that you don't die to an all out assault.

Explosive Trap kills all the creatures of the combo, if they have a boar they can trigger the trap before-hand but that takes away at least 4 dog much like any random taunter might.

Ice Block however that the mage has would leave you on one life giving you one turn to deal with their creatures and heal urself or simply win urself.

Those two tactics if you want to call them that are not available as long as the hunter has flare.

The other option would be to nerf Unleash the Hounds. IMO the card would still be very strong even if it just gave 3 creatures charge and +1 so that might not be the best solution.
Removing the +1 dmg permanently completely kills the deck most likely and glad as some might be i don't think that would happen.

I would love to have blizzard try to balance it by having the UtH only give charge, unless the beast already has charge in which case it would give just +1 to that creature.

That way you'd need both UtH to buff your creatures while the boars still have +2 since they had charge.

TL DR:
Sorry for wall of text but where I stand there are two options:
1 Remove Flare from the hunter
2 Nerf Unleash the Hounds in some way that makes it less overwhelming
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Posts: 308
Just ran up against this deck again. There is only 2 reasons I beat that hunter (who quit when he ran out of cards):
1. He didn't have good card draw. Turn 8 came around and he double buzzarded, and opted to use UtH to kill off my minions instead of lowering my life a good chunk
2. I healed for 12. Had I not healed so much I would have lost.
3. I knew what I was up against and kept the board as clear as possible and kept taunts up even when he didn't have anything out.

Yes, I won, just barely, but all that could have been for naught had he just gotten better card draw. Then nothing I could have played or drawn would have stopped it.

And, no you don't play a counter deck that only has like a 70% chance of winning against 1 deck.

Honestly, I think a nerf to buzzard would reduce how much this tactic gets played, as it relies heavily on the buzzard to mitigate luck. Change it to 1 card draw max per turn, and the deck would require a lot more luck to win.
Edited by subanark on 10/31/2013 8:23 AM PDT
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Posts: 19
I am sorry an no I did not read the entire thread, but this type of hunter deck is to powerful. I have played against it about 15 times now with different characters and decks, so this is not a off the handle omg nerf it. The cards to do it either need to be harder to get or it does need a nerf, plain simple truth of it.
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Posts: 4
Funny how you mention "if" they dont kill you in that turn. The whole point of the deck is to drop it WHEN you have lethal and not before. The opponent has no chance to counter it once it is dropped.

So you are comparing Soulfire to Unleash the Hounds and want to "ignore" the discard it has....that made my day. Many warlocks would trade Soulfire for Unleash the Hounds. There is no justification why Unleash the Hounds cost 1 mana for what it does. It is too easy to drop a few low mana cost beasts and get a huge amount of damage from it using that card. Stop trying to defend an OBVIOUSLY overpowered card. There is a REASON why most hunters in masters are using Unleash the Hounds and that is because it is very effective for its cost.


everyone complains about the hounds but say he plays a tundra Rhino and then all beast forever have charge and you run into the same issue minus the damage boost, yeah the Rhino cost 5 but play a Taunt and a Rhino the turn before and its over either way.

I play as a hunter and its so much more the luck of the draw rather than an OP'd deck, if you don't have the cards you can't make the moves, I have lost plenty of games with Hounds in my hand but no minions that playing it with would be lethal.

Now Buzzards are another story, 2 Buzzards a taunt and a snake trap is worth 6 cards the next turn, that can set up hundreds of new combos to play from.
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