Is it just me or does the Warrior suck?

Posts: 123
09/29/2013 06:14 AMPosted by Lissanna
Yes, I have a really hard time with the warrior deck. Two of my daily quests right now require me to win on a warrior, and so I think I may just stop playing hearthstone until the wipe happens and those two quests get wiped. ;)

what wipe?
is there another card wipe or were you refering to the daily quest wipe? :D
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Posts: 115
I'm badly disappointed with warrior at the moment. Granted, I only have basic cards right now. But I have had no trouble with any other class using the same basic cards (just now got all of them to level 10).

Warrior just has...laughable lack of abilities when it comes to essential things.

Like, for example, let me give you a few scenarios from the last few matches:

I summon the Core Hound, but lack Charge (it just didn't get drawn, I have 2 of them, but out of 18 cards already in play, Charge wasn't one of them). What happens? This is the only card I have, and mage is down to 13 health, might as well play it, what else can I do?

vs Mage? If mirror card is up, he gets an identical Core Hound, and kills mine.
vs Mage? If Poly is up, he turns it into 1/1 sheep.
vs Priest? SW:Death
vs Priest? Mind Control

Now reverse that. Empty board. Enemy plays Core Hound. What can a warrior do? I mean, really? Damage it somehow, Whirlwind probably? Then finish it with Execute? This relies on having not one but TWO cards on hand. OK, fine, you are in luck, and you got those cards. But what happens if the mage has a second Core Hound? How do you deal with that? You can't. Or what if Secret is up, and it turns out to be Counterspell? No Whirlwind for yoooooooou! And no Execute. Prepare to get smacked in the face!

See what I mean?

OK, OK, so you still have Arcanite Reaper and Heroic Strike. Woo. Cast Arcanite Reaper. Whoops, Counerspell. Heroic Strike? Not enough to kill the Hound, so you'll get smacked in the face no matter what.

Your other minions for board control? Sorry, they got wiped out with Flamestrike or some other AoE. Or simply frozen. Nice spell, that one, I spent two turns with all of my minions frozen, while the mage was beating the snot out of me.

Shall I go on?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm inexperienced. And I am. I just got into beta a few days ago. But I got all classes to 10, easily beat all the expert AI with each character while leveling. So I'm not a complete dunce. And warrior is by far the weakest class I saw so far. Not even close to priest or mage.
Edited by Sabbathius on 10/19/2013 5:25 PM PDT
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Posts: 828
Counterspell doesn't hit weapons, and if a 9/5 is stopping you by itself, you need to rethink your strategies.
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Posts: 115
You sure? It might have been Heroic Stike then. Either way, point being I needed melee damage to control the board, and that was denied rather easily. Not to mention it's hardly a "win" to have to melee enemy myself, as I still take the damage.

And if 9/5 Core Hound by itself isn't a problem when you have nothing on the board (because just about every class has more removal tools in their basic toolkit), why don't you simply list the ways to counter a 9/5?

Off the top of my head? Whirlwind + Execute. Relies on having 2 spells. Relies on target not being shielded. Relies on Whirlwind not being Counterspelled (it can be Counterspelled, right?). Now compare it to other classes? Mind Control, SW: Death, Hex, Polymorph, Assassinate, etc. Notice a pattern? Yep, single card used in all instances.

Can I use Arcanite Reaper? Sure. And get smacked for 9 damage. To take out a 5 hp target. But what if the priest dumped down Core Hound and smacked it with Divine Spirit? Can easily be done in one turn. Doubling its health? Short of Whirlwind + Execute, Because even Arcanite Reaper + Heroic Strike won't drop it. What have you got? No minions, remember?

And yes, sure, you can do Shield Block to mitigate half the damage, plus Fiery Axe plus sacrifice something like Kor'Kron Elite...IF you have all of these, to counter ONE card?

Granted, eventually my warrior will get a card like Brawl. And it will help. But using just cards you have at level 10, which is something a newbie like me has, what are my options? Incidentally, the things I listed for other classes - Mind Control, SW:Death, Hex, Poly, Assassinate, etc? Pretty sure they're basic cards you get by level 10.
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Posts: 1,000
I currently main a charge deck, and wow do I love it. I win about..I'd say about 75% of my games.

Last game I won I was sitting at one health half the damn game, kept armoring up, brought the other mage for 30-0 health, and that was with them using two ice blocks.

You have to be a bit creative with Warrior decks, as some of their cards are very..Just eh. Warsong Commander for example. It seems like you want it in a warrior charge deck, yet in such a deck all your creatures are going to be charge anyway.

If you're going for aggro, don't abandon all defense. Throw in a couple mogu'shan wardens, shield blocks etc.

However, they are heavily lacking in certain things, such as removal on the level of other classes. Their 'removal' hurts them rather heavily.

Do I think Warrior needs more removal? No. I think the game in general needs LESS removal. Even MTG doesn't have this much removal, and you can come back from removal much easier in that game.

Could Warrior use some work? Definitely. Are they weak? Hell no.
Edited by Bladecatcher on 10/19/2013 8:15 PM PDT
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Posts: 115
I find that BOTH mass removal and single removal of powerful cards and draw power are SEVERELY lacking.

For example, I drop a Core Hound. What does a priest do? SW:Death, killing it instantly, taking no damage from it. Costs a whopping 3 mana. Yeah, 3 mana. No SW: Death? No SW: Death? No biggie. Mind Control, now you're looking down the business end of your own Core Hound! Oh, did I mention a priest can have two of each of those cards? And of course other classes have similar tools: Assassinate on a rogue, Hex of the shaman, Poly of the mage, Humility of the paladin, etc. When it comes to mass removal, the difference is again obvious. Did I also mention that all of these cards are basic (you have them all by level 10)?

Card draw power is also severely lacking. I actually made it a point this morning to build a deck with max draw. That is, I took as much of every card that had "draw a card" as a possible effect. Still, card starvation was a serious issue, because of the warrior's fairly common "2 for 1" mechanic. Where it takes 2 cards to get a decent effect. Whereas other classes can do it with a single card. Case in point, Whirlwind+Execute. Pretty ridiculous, having to blow two cards to take one powerful enemy off the table.

I freely admit that maybe it's me. It's possible. But why is it that with literally EVERY other class I have little to no trouble playing this game. All except one. I thought my yesterday's daily was 2 wins with a warrior, and I spent 90 minutes last night, trying various builds (many from this very forum) and didn't get a single win. I then realized that daily was actually "2 wins with a warrior or paladin". Switched to the pally, which I played as little as the warrior. Still using basic deck (all cards you get at level 10, no rares or above), and I EASILY won 3 games in about half an hour? And I started again on the warrior this morning, and already had five back to back losses?

Feels kinda weak. To me, at least.

EDIT: I also noticed that warrior suffers FAR more from luck of the draw than any other class I played so far.

For example, when I was playing a basic warrior deck (listed just a few threads below, right on this forum), during several games I ended up with two Cleaves and two Executes and no weapon (despite having 6 weapon cards in the deck) for the first half of the game. Meanwhile, enemy would be playing one freakishly strong card (multiply buffed), and bombarding me with spells. And I would literally have no way to remove it.

One game, it got really ridiculous, until (don't know if I remember right) 6th turn or so NONE of my cards were usable.
I had 2x Charge, 2x Execute, 2x Cleave, and the rest of the cards were 6+ mana (2x Core Hound, etc.) I literally just sat there pressing End Turn, and none of my cards were green except the hero ability. Never had this happen with any other class using the basic deck.

Warrior feels kinda...rigid. I don't know how to describe it. Other classes seem more flexible and synergize better. With a warrior it seems more like all-or-nothing. You either get good cards, in good order, and it goes well. Or you get bad (unsuitable for situation) cards in bad order (breaking the synergy), and it goes to hell. Other classes recover from this easier, with easier mass removal and control. I mean, on a mage, if I need a few turns' breathing room, it's as easy as hitting Frost Nova twice. Costs whopping 2 mana, and none of the enemy cards will bother me, and I'm free to spend remaining mana on whatever, set up a kill, etc. There's simply nothing in a warrior's arsenal that has this kind of power.

EDIT #2:

One other thing - I feel warriors REALLY suck with a BASIC deck. As in, all the cards you get by level 10. No rares or above. Basically someone like me, who just got the beta a few days ago. Other classes perform fine. Warriors with some rares (Brawl leaps to mind) perform fine, I've seen videos. But I have yet to see a SINGLE video of a warrior using a BASIC deck and winning. Haven't seen a single one of those. If someone has a link, that would be very helpful, but I haven't seen one. Meanwhile, in the same scenario (only basic cards), all other classes perform significantly better. Priest and Paladin and Mage and Hunter seem to do ridiculously well, and Warlock is rather strong as well.
Edited by Sabbathius on 10/20/2013 8:24 AM PDT
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Posts: 5,110
Maybe the level of play makes a difference. I'm at one-star Gold, not Platinum or Diamond.

I've found that Warrior takes a lot of tuning, but it's perfectly capable of holding its own. Example: The current Paladin/Warrior daily quest. I played a round, lost the match, and retooled the deck from scratch. I do this frequently to insure that I'm considering all of my available options and not getting "stuck" on a losing strategy.

I set the following goals for my deck: Weapons, buffing of damaged minions, buffing of armor, card draw where synergistic. Minimal healing, adequate taunt, one big bruiser primarily to draw out the control cards. I don't have a deck list available ATM but it would be safe to characterize it as a deck that attempts to control minions, buff armor via armorsmiths, and protect the armorsmiths with taunt and minion removal. Otherwise, use minions that charge and buff other minions.

After the first loss, the new deck went nine wins in a row, and in a couple of those I won despite making some mistakes that cost me some advantage. Some matches were close, others less so, but in the end I won them all until I got tired of playing for the night.

I'm not saying my deck is something wonderful, and as I said, I'm playing at a mid-level. Still, the fact that I am basically a scrub player in most games I play and I could pull together a deck with some win power out of the Warrior means that the Warrior is not completely devoid of potential.

A lot of Warrior is about building up as much armor as you can manage. In this game, armor is basically bonus health, only it's health with no upper limit. For that reason, armor > health. For practical purposes, the Warrior special ability is a self-only version of the Priest special ability.

As far as battle rage goes, when I can use it to draw 3-4 cards in a turn, then shield block for armor and another card, then I'd hardly say it's an underpowered card unless your goal in life is to keep all of your minions healed up to their max health. That's pretty much the opposite of Warrior's theme, though.
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Posts: 430
"Is it just me or does the Warrior suck?"

Oh god yes, I agree 200%. Once in a while I'll get lucky and win some matches...but otherwise I struggle with them and Druids. I think it may have something to do with their Hero Powers not really synergizing with any cards.
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Posts: 84
as worrior u need to draw weapon early or your !@#$ed, its not like other classes where u can stall/come back to the game with board clear spells, worrior relies a lot on rng to win
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Posts: 154
I'm finding more and more that the warrior is just very inconsistent. My experience so far is that if the first 3-4 turns don't go my way the game begins to spiral out of control and I end up losing all momentum trying to regain footing on the board. Axing down one minion at a time just isn't cutting it when I'm already behind.
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Posts: 353
My warrior deck is amazing. If you think warrior's are bad, you're using them wrong.

Won two tournaments in the past two weeks, and I rarely lose with it in constructed (M3).
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Posts: 31
I must concur, Warrior specific cards are just way too situational or require two cards to make anything happen. Combine that with the lack of draw power and you are stuck with being two steps behind every class.

I really enjoy the concept and idea behind enrage, charge, weapons. Just needs to be tweaked a little. Not sure in what direction. KirbyDude65 seems to be making alot of sense to me though.
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Posts: 398
I really wish they would buff Mortal Strike. ATM it is a 4 mana for 4 dmg. It can be a fire ball, but only if you are low health. An interesting idea could be 4 mana for 5 dmg, plus for every 9 or 10 HP missing (from the warrior) it gains 1 more damage.
Edited by Folgan on 10/28/2013 8:21 PM PDT
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Posts: 136
Not just you bud, warriors are terrible atm. With the only real removal being your face, its really hard to deal with multiple taunt creatures and its very easy for your opponent to keep your board clear with spells than legendary spam till you lose. I'm not even sure how to fix it really, other than just adding more removal so we have more options other than making it easier for the other guy to kill us.
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Posts: 475
Heh. Funny thing is, you guys seem to list all the bad cards and seemingly still make decks with these. Weapons are insanely strong. With Fiery War Axe, Arcanite Reaper, Arathi Blacksmith, Blacksmith, Dread Corsair, Bloodsail Raider and Upgrade!, there's a whole lot of surprisingly strong cards that are centered around a weapons based deck.

That's not to say that a buff wouldn't be deserved. But building decks from cards that are known to be weak... Well, I don't know. Why would you do that and expect to do well?
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Posts: 51
Warriors are weak atm, I've crafted every warrior cards and tried every possible builds from hearthpwn and here, and came up with my own build. the best luck I had was with mass weapons, plus upgrades, Heroic strikes, and Legendary Captain Greenskin. I went on a 5 game winning streak in Masters then lost 7 in a row and realized that you NEED good card draws / luck to win. Most of my wins are from surprising opponents with doing 10+ damage with my weapon+HS to end the game.

I've played since early beta and got most heros to level 30 ish at least twice. Warriors in their current state are the weakest due to the various points mentioned in this thread, 2 for 1, removal with your face so you open up to getting raced down by any decent players, rely too heavy on synergy of cards; therefore really need a lucky flow of cards. Warriors really lack that OP come back ability, like a flamestrike or mind control etc. Brawl is great but the RNG can sometimes !@#$ you up too. Even if you get your weapons, if you're behind in a game you're still going to take damage to the face to trade for minions and allow your opponent to still finish you off.
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Posts: 3,691
Warriors do need a bit more love/tuning but overall they do not suck. Unfortunately, the card you will need in a warrior deck is the Epic card Brawl, their only mass removal in the game right now.

I was lucky enough to pull 2 Brawls and it has made a world of difference when playing the deck now. With this card alone you can concentrate on smashing them in the face while they build up 3-5 minions by turn 5 then viola they are back down to 1 and you can bring down a taunter next turn and continue to hit the other hero directly.

Lastly, save those mortal strikes for late game when they get you to 12 or below and FINISH THEM!

Been having a blast with this diff play style.

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Posts: 539
Dude, warriors blow so much !@# its retarded. Best chance is playing with cards that are neutral.
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Posts: 72
Whenever I play the warrior it always seems I have the worst starting hands like, Execute/WW/Warsong Commander

I always seem to run out of cards even when my opponent is playing aggro and i'm playing conservative.

Armor Up! is practically useless.

Ooze turns the Warrior into a priest with no Heal.

Even though the Warior is good with charge, the Charge minions have so little health they can't survive one turn so your board is constantly wiped.

The only way i've been able to win with the Warrior is to play an early game deck and coin to make sure I can keep my board alive and sacrifice myself with weapons. It seems almost impossible to beat the Hunter as a Warrior, Misha is !@#$% to take down.

The Warrior just feels like the weakest class.

Same problems too,for starting Aracanite Reaper,Execute,Cleave,Slam but always or when I don't have then after discard one will come for sure then when I use it my enemy comes out with the hard weaponry...OR I just never get them when I need it...

I played Warrior Rush deck only weakness are the Taunt minions it works fine even beside that.
Gold Rank in a few hours ''One Star Gold Medal'' .If you really want to play warrior try it or if you have enough time for play try the full ''Retaliation'' Deck mostly taunt minions and Armor stack works fine too just boring.
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Posts: 503
I actually don't like whirlwind at all unless I have a deck that specifically works with it... which I don't.
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