Ok is time to nerf hunter like miracle rogue

Posts: 4
My suggestion to Unleash the Hounds:

"Give target minion and adjacent minions +1 attack and charge"

This keeps the current Hunter meta viable, but not completely overwhelming.
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Posts: 1,251
I think the argument that this is currently the only viable hunter deck don't really hold much weight. All this really means is that more than one change is needed.

I have to say, the most amusing part about this is the hypocrisy. Let's take a look at before and after.

Problem before: Hunters had a very hard time against control decks because they could too easily and efficiently take out small creatures, leading to a near auto loss for hunter vs control. This was clearly broken, making the hunter not viable.

Problem after: Control decks have a very hard time against unleash combo hunters because control decks are about controlling the board, while the hunter combo deck performs a single turn kill, leading to a near auto loss for control vs combo hunter. This is clearly completely working as intended because hunter is in the winning position!

Basically what you guys are saying is that the hunter class losing horribly to specific decks is not ok, but an entire deck archetype losing horribly to hunters is perfectly ok and exactly how it should be?

This deck is gaining a lot of notoriety with it winning the TL Open and some of the most popular streamers now trying it out. It won't be long before ranked is filled with this type of deck.
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Posts: 742
Auto concede vs hunters/priests.
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Posts: 748
murloc decks are fun, but stopable by many balanced builds, not just control

hunters UtH is stopped by ton of taunt put on turn 6 and then 7, or by explosive traps and ice blocks/counterspell...

maybe if windfury harpy and owl werent considered beasts, but as it is it's unstoppable. i usually get hunter to 10-8 hp by the end, so it's not like i'm playing heavy control...
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Posts: 258
I think the argument that this is currently the only viable hunter deck don't really hold much weight. All this really means is that more than one change is needed.

I have to say, the most amusing part about this is the hypocrisy. Let's take a look at before and after.

Problem before: Hunters had a very hard time against control decks because they could too easily and efficiently take out small creatures, leading to a near auto loss for hunter vs control. This was clearly broken, making the hunter not viable.

Problem after: Control decks have a very hard time against unleash combo hunters because control decks are about controlling the board, while the hunter combo deck performs a single turn kill, leading to a near auto loss for control vs combo hunter. This is clearly completely working as intended because hunter is in the winning position!

Basically what you guys are saying is that the hunter class losing horribly to specific decks is not ok, but an entire deck archetype losing horribly to hunters is perfectly ok and exactly how it should be?

This deck is gaining a lot of notoriety with it winning the TL Open and some of the most popular streamers now trying it out. It won't be long before ranked is filled with this type of deck.


First off, this is fuzzy logic. If a particular class can't win against anything (and let's be honest, Hunter gets smashed even against rush decks, as beasts are simply not as good as most non-beast minions seen in frequent play), then it needs to be reworked. If a particular deck is good against the current meta, it's not broken. It's just maximizing effectiveness against the meta. The better this deck does, the more people will play it. The more people play it, the more decks will be designed to counter it. The meta then changes, and this deck will no longer be viable, until control becomes popular again. There's nothing broken about that. It's just rock paper scissors. While everyone is playing scissors, you'd better believe I'll be building rock decks, until everyone changes over to play something new.

Second, I don't even think your premise is correct. I've been on these forums since beta opened, and haven't heard too much whining about Hunter being under-powered, even though they have been. Hunter players have, for the most part, been very good about patiently awaiting the change that the all know needs to happen to make Hunter an overall viable class. In the meantime, they're making do with what they can - the only viable Hunter deck.
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Posts: 10
There's really no argument that the turn 7/8 UtH combo is appropriate in the game of hearthstone. There just isn't.
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Posts: 828
The problem is there's no hand disruption, or interactive plays you can make on your opponent's turn.

It's how you justify combo decks in MTG, the ones that can win on turns 2-4. There's counterplay available, and the games are still fun.

The matches in HS versus combo aren't fun, because there's generally little interaction. One player just does 20-25 damage in a turn.
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Posts: 66
Only hunters whinning here.
It's that hard to agree that this combo is indeed OP?

So what that you don't have imagination nor skill to play decently? Don't play hunter if you think that way.
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Posts: 63
I just beat this deck with my shaman, but it was only possible because I had perfect draws and my opponent had terrible ones. I got both Rockbiters which I used on my hero to eliminate his two early game minions. Flametongue, Totemic Might, and both Bloodlusts came up before turn 5. Meanwhile, my opponent got no weapons, only one secret (Snipe), and one Multi-Shot to stall with. I still think this deck is OP, and I'd like to offer my two cents.

First, every hunter I've seen in diamond plays this deck. This tells me not only that the deck is too good, but that Sharpshooter is probably right and hunters don't have enough viable options. When one deck is this much better than any potential alternatives, you get a shallow meta.

Second, Unleash the Hounds is not necessarily the card that needs to be nerfed to bring down the power level of this deck. It's the synergy of many cards that makes it so overwhelming. I wouldn't be unhappy at all to see Unleash changed to only affect target and adjacent beasts, but there are other options. Increasing the mana cost of Ironbeak Owl would make it harder for hunters to bypass a taunt wall. Changing Starving Buzzard's trigger from a beast being summoned to a beast dying would make it impossible to dig for Unleash and large numbers of cheap beasts. Nerfing Animal Companion and/or hunters' early game control slightly could make it harder for them to successfully stall until turn 7. I realize that more than just this one deck needs to be considered when making balancing choices, but there are lots of ways to get at this. I really hope the developers take a look at rebalancing hunters. Until then, I may just go back to unranked to make my arena gold.
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Posts: 258
I just beat this deck with my shaman, but it was only possible because I had perfect draws and my opponent had terrible ones. I got both Rockbiters which I used on my hero to eliminate his two early game minions. Flametongue, Totemic Might, and both Bloodlusts came up before turn 5. Meanwhile, my opponent got no weapons, only one secret (Snipe), and one Multi-Shot to stall with. I still think this deck is OP, and I'd like to offer my two cents.

First, every hunter I've seen in diamond plays this deck. This tells me not only that the deck is too good, but that Sharpshooter is probably right and hunters don't have enough viable options. When one deck is this much better than any potential alternatives, you get a shallow meta.

Second, Unleash the Hounds is not necessarily the card that needs to be nerfed to bring down the power level of this deck. It's the synergy of many cards that makes it so overwhelming. I wouldn't be unhappy at all to see Unleash changed to only affect target and adjacent beasts, but there are other options. Increasing the mana cost of Ironbeak Owl would make it harder for hunters to bypass a taunt wall. Changing Starving Buzzard's trigger from a beast being summoned to a beast dying would make it impossible to dig for Unleash and large numbers of cheap beasts. Nerfing Animal Companion and/or hunters' early game control slightly could make it harder for them to successfully stall until turn 7. I realize that more than just this one deck needs to be considered when making balancing choices, but there are lots of ways to get at this. I really hope the developers take a look at rebalancing hunters. Until then, I may just go back to unranked to make my arena gold.


Buzzards honestly aren't the most important card in the deck. There are plenty of other ways to get draw power; buzzards are just a last resort.

I've made the argument before (constantly, in fact) that Unleash is not a broken card. I agree with you completely: it is only in the context of this one combo that Unleash becomes truly a great card. So, want to know how to completely shut this deck down from being viable, without needlessly nerfing Unleash? Make Young Dragonhawks cost 2 mana. Easy as that. Without them, the entire power behind this deck completely falls apart. With an increase to their cost, it will limit how many minions come into play, and allow for at most a 15-damage turn, as opposed to 24-30.
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Posts: 145
These decks are UTTER bull!@#$, half the time when I see a hunter I just surrender and log off (because 99.8% of hunters are playing this, since the class has zero other options). It's literally unbeatable unless you've got a certain type of deck or they get the worst possible hand, and even when you can beat it it's zero fun to play against.

Absolutely horrendous design on this class. I don't even care whether it's balanced or not, it's just so %^-*ing stupid to play against that I pretty much just stop playing when I see it.
Edited by Kelarm on 10/25/2013 2:52 AM PDT
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Posts: 523
Control, in Hearthstone, is very strong. This is not the fault of the players, it is the result of each class having access to considerable amount of removal. I agree that there should be viable counters to Control. Aggro can often do the trick, but with the proliferation of removal it can be difficult.

For those arguing for the Unleash Hunter deck out of frustration against Control decks, I have some news for you: the Unleash deck is a Control deck. It plays heavy removal while attempting to establish an end-game. The issue is, this Control deck is the only one that can create a very potent one-turn win-con from an otherwise clear board state. That's the key there - an otherwise cleared board state. I am not aware of another Control deck capable of that.

It's not surprising that the most popular Aggro deck, Warlock Mulrocs, generally counters the Unleash deck - Warlock Mulrocs are rough on any Control deck.

I play Midrange Mage and Midrange Druid, primarily. They are removal heavy, but come "online" earlier than strictly Control variants, usually around turn 4 or 5 rather than the usual Control turn 8+, with less explosive single plays. Unleash Hunter is really tough for me to beat with these decks. Even though I can get some solid pressure in the first half of the match (Hunter is usually around 15-20 life), I've still lost out on a lot of creatures from Hunter removal. I might have a Yeti still up, or maybe an Azure Drake. And then the blitz occurs, and the game is lost.

I find Midrange to be quite effective against Control, it has enough early pressure and efficiency to win the card advantage game, with creatures of sufficient size to close out the game over time. This is, of course, an exception for Hunter Control.

The Hunter needs a greater variety of playstyles available to him, as he is arguably the strongest Control class currently available (though Druid is mighty fine, too).
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Posts: 3,538
10/25/2013 10:55 AMPosted by Lanoitakude
Warlock Mulrocs are rough on any Control deck.


They are not, control has them bent on their knees, otherwise you'd see them everywhere. The only reason that they are so rough against UTH Hunter is because we only have Explotrap, unlike Empowered Arcanexplosion and Blizzards, aswell as Doomsayers for those who pack him.

That's the reason the deck is very unpopular, and that's also the reason why the UTH Deck is VERY popular.
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Posts: 503
Well, I like playing the hunter. Before when I had heard about all this talk about Unleash the Hounds, I thought it was rubbish.
Then I played a hunter that played no minions for the first 5 turns, and I lost.

For small minions at first, arcane shot.
For large minions, boar and kill command, or explosive shot.
For many minions, explosive trap.
Then, on turn 5 or 6, dragonhawk, two timber wolves and a direwolf alpha plus Unleash the hounds (I think he had the coin). So, 20 damage. There was nothing I could do, even if I could see it coming. He nuked all the taunt creatures I had played up to that point.

It seems like too effective a combination.

My suggestion would include one or more of something like these:
1. make unleash the hounds effect only one minion and increase the attack damage bonus.
2. kill command and explosive shot damage max out at 4.
3. Oh, and explosive trap should do more damage to attacking creature, but 1 damage to all other creatures.
Edited by BraveSrRobin on 10/25/2013 4:45 PM PDT
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Posts: 153
UTH is fine imo. You only lose to that strategy if you play a slow deck with no gameplan and no taunters. If the meta were to shift into a really aggressive one the deck would not be good.
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Posts: 2,816
Or at least make dragonhawk 2 mana
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Posts: 4
i just played a game where i had a taunter on the board and his side was empty, i had 29 hp and died in 1 turn (id managed to control board and whittle him down to about 12 HP by this point)

as you can imagine im not entirely sure this is really fair :p

and no this is no exaggeration, it's exactly what happened, i repeat:

29 hp > 0 in 1 turn, his side of the board empty, with a taunter on my side of the board

Edit: Masters 2*
Edited by Tohrazer on 10/26/2013 9:56 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,036
10/17/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Sharpshooter
I'm just gonna say this is the only viable Hunter deck right now, the rest of the decks perishes against control.


If that's true (I'm not in the beta, so I don't know one way or the other) then it's true because of one of three possibilities.

A) Because it's overpowered to the point of being the obvious choice for those who want to win.
B) Because the rest of the class is underpowered to the point of not being non-functional.
C) Some combination of A and B.

No matter which of the three possibilities is actually the case, Blizzard needs to implement some balance adjustments: nerfs, buffs, or both.
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Posts: 66
OP is right. Allow hunters to keep this kind of deck but reign in it's effectiveness. Right now it is broken. In my experience it is top 3 most imbalanced decks we've seen... ever. The buff + charge combo on cheap units is just not fun to play as or against. Speaking from experience on both sides.
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