Mind Control is on our Mind

Posts: 28
I agree with the idea that the problem isn't just MC, but the entire Priest kit in general. MC just stands out because it lacks absolutely any counter play beside not playing high cost minions in the first place. So you think you finally won and are or are close to top decking, but you can't play your big baddy because the MOMENT you do, MC GG. MC allows a priest to trade a turn for AT LEAST 2 of his opponents (one spent summoning the minions and another dealing with it), which is ridiculously strong late in the game.

Anyways, I think more than just MC has to be hit for priests to be leveled out. For instance:

Make (Shadow Word: Death) kill anything with 6 or more attack, giving opponents a little more space to work with. Would still be a potent card for clearing late game heavy hitters, but wouldn't stall mid game threats as much. I think this is entirely reasonable.

On Mind Control, I think a duration limit is entirely reasonable. even if it was one turn, you could use that turn to:

-Smack the minion you stole to smack another opponent's minion, potentially destroying both

-Use it as a late game finisher, stealing a heavy hitter and smacking you opponent with it for high damage

In summary;

Make SHADOW WORD: DEATH kill minions with 6 or more attack.

and

Make MIND CONTROL a one turn control ability, but allow for immediate attacks to be made.
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Posts: 136
Why not make death just like big game hunter only 7+ attack minions.
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Posts: 48
I do feel MC is fine in a vacuum, and that the OP cries are greatly over blown, but the entire priest toolkit makes playing against them very frustrating.

Also I feel the priests basic cards are far stronger then other classes, all there aoe, kill and control are basic whiles expert cards are more gimmick cards, cause alot of people just starting to get upset, compared to Rogues(Bandit/Evis) or Shammies(Storm/Wolves) that needs expert cards to do many basic functions of there class.

While I do feel priest are balanced with the hard removal in MC, I feel with the addition of SW:D and Holy fire that they don't need the miracle cure/momentum change MC currently is.

Either
a) change MC to be silencable and possibly take effect at end of turn(No charge/removal of taunt) and increase SW:D to cost 4,

b) or as someone else suggested change the cost to 6 and move the MC'ed creature to the Priests hand so he has to pay to replay it.(5 being assassinate + 1 mana for the extra card)
Edited by Myself on 10/23/2013 1:48 PM PDT
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Posts: 119
How to deal with a Priest:

Play an early Faerie Dragon.
Use an Owl or a Spellbreaker or other silences.
Use 4-attack minions (Chillwind Yeti, Dark Iron Dwarf, Spellbreaker again, etc). These cards don't even cripple your deck. They're good in general.
Bait mind controls with a control card to back it up.
Bait shadow cards.

In general (not even against Priests), get into the mindset of assuming what your opponent may have in their hand. Don't drop that Sen'jin Shieldmasta immediately when you know there's still 1 more SWP in their hand, bait it out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you summon your entire hand knowing a Mage still likely has a Flamestrike playable, you're asking to lose. Plan a couple turns ahead and think what the typical outcomes could be against a class. Why do you have an Ooze in your deck? So you can handle weapon classes. Plus, the 3/2 is still an appropriate drop with 2 mana on opponents without weapons.

//

MC isn't necessarily a problem, but go ahead and nerf it. Make it silence-able. Make it have a chance to fail (at a lower cost). Make it last a number of turns (at a lower cost).

At least with an MC you get one turn to deal with it and you should know it's coming. Just like how I know that Hunter is saving up cards so he can play 5 beasts + Unleash the Hounds to deal devastating damage in one turn.

People didn't like dealing with Rogues and all I had to do was work around them with a pre-patch Priest kit to maintain a good win ratio against them. After Priest nerfs will be Mage nerfs. It's like World of Warcraft all over again.
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Posts: 2,461


b) or as someone else suggested change the cost to 6 and move the MC'ed creature to the Priests hand so he has to pay to replay it.(5 being assassinate + 1 mana for the extra card)


I like this idea.
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Posts: 28
Having to build your deck entirely around one class is the definition of over powered.

All the cards the priests can kill things with that are class only:

Smite x2
Shadow Word: Pain x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Holy Nova x2
Holy fire x2

Other priest cards that are forms of elimination include:

Cabal Shadow Priest x2
Shadowform x2
Shadow Madness x2
Auchenai Soulpriest x2

Granted, the latter aren't often used, this leaves you with ALL your weaker creatures more than likely dead, while they are capable of healing their own and when you finally drudge through all those spells, MIND CONTROL

Priests are just far too well rounded. They keep their creatures on the board, wipe your and when all else fails they just take your best cards. Having to play the whole game after turn 7-8 as if they have an MC in their hand typically means losing.

The gap between both Shadow Words needs to be increased and I honestly think making Mind Control cost less, but be a one turn control of any minion that you can use ON THAT TURN is completely fair.

How close do other classes come to a priest's in ability to kill stuff? I mean, they are priests and they give rogues a run for their money on the subject of murder. Where is the thematic sense in that?
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Posts: 5
I think indeed make it a 1 turn change with charge, or a remove at the beginning at your turn with charge. would make it very nice. I like to play priest and ofcourse I play MC and it does change games.

Cause if you do that, you usualy try or to hit the player hard or you need to get rid of 2 minions he controls you actualy cant get rid of.

The combo's a priest can make are sometimes insane, they draw half there deck in 1 turn but that usualy is a lack of knowledge of your opponent, if you know he has clerics why not wait with your spells to kill these.

Next to the MC nerf I think you should change the clerics to 2 mana, they are really overpowered this way and are usualy the reason a priest wins, because of the cleric he has a lot of cards and a lot of control (name al the control cards above).

Other classes have a lot more problems with drawing cards. On the other hand, I often fight warlocks but they refuse to use the ability to draw cards the first few turns very often at the cost of 2 health... Dont blame me for playing mind control and not having anything to counter it if you have only 2 cards in your hand.

I think people need to play more matches and it will turn out to be a very good card, maybe the adjustment above is enought to make it playable, maybe reduce the costs to 6 mana if its not usable anymore and hunters/warlocks/rogues really start to get a lot of <8 turn wins.

So wait with adjusting cards and dont start to cry if your card gets MCd, you know you fight a priest and priest play that card.

On the other hand, having these cards early its a waste for 6-7 turns and priests get vulnerable. Ever thought of the weakness? If your decks starts working @ turn 8 dont fight priests or concede directly cause you wont win it indeed.
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Posts: 602
As many other have said i just wanted to chime in. Mind control is not the issue here. I dont build my deck to beat out MC. Even if you dont drop a bomb late enough for MC to be applicable the priest is still going to take a small taunt minion or steal ANYHTING that might disrupt your rhythm if that would be advantageous at that point. The real issue is not even the amount of control priests have.

The issue is that the nature of priest control is such a way that half the "check out my deck" threads on these forums state "doesnt die to Shadow Word:Nope" as the reasoning for using a card. I couldnt begin to speculate how they might be changed and really in my low low low VERY low skill level of play it isnt always an issue. But from my point of view when the vast majority of posying players find these control methods so overwhelming that they need to build a deck viable against EVERYONE that still sits in between the cracks of that control? The class needs a rework.

One thing i do think needs a serious change is the efficiency of most of their cards. Northshire priestess provides a threat that is frustratingly difficult to deal with early game if you dont have an immediate answer and i dont always want to waste a hex on it. but gun to my head id much rather have that massive draw machine frogged then hold it back and hope i drew/will draw a minion able to snuff it out AND he doesnt have shadow words ready to go. Combine this with the EXTREME advantage an early unanswered lightspawn can preset and priests main weakness i have seen 9slow early game) is diminished. Bear in mind the lightspawn issue is somewhat defeated by the fact they need to pump a lot of cards into it tomake it a HUGE threat and one good frog means i traded one cards for 2-4 of his.
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Posts: 2,818
10/22/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Eric Dodds
We have seen a lot of talk about Mind Control lately, and I wanted to let you know that we are definitely paying attention to your concerns that Mind Control can be pretty powerful as well as frustrating to play against. We are talking about the issue here and looking at the power of Mind Control at different skill levels and in different modes so we can make any adjustments that may be needed. We’re still deliberating the right course of action, but we have heard you guys and we understand your concerns. Keep up the great feedback!


The only people that are complaining about Mind Control are bad players. If they'd learn to play better this would be a non-issue. But in the WoW tradition, if you can't figure out how to beat it, go to the forums and !@#$% about it
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Posts: 5
To be honest if Mind control and northshire priest both got destroyed by the nerf hammer and were unplayable i'd still play priest. they're not necessary to the priest game plan or even that OP.
I think people need to stop crying about how priests are OP, every one has a sick card drawing engine and the mana costs will become balanced with time. Mind Control is like counter spells in MTG, super fun to play, super unfun to have played against you, cards like this are quite alright in small quantities.
If I had to make a change to mind control i'd make it cost 6-7 and make it legendary so there's only one in each deck.

If the powers to be nerf mind control at least I can craft gruul without him being more of a liability than useful in the mirror.

Have faith in blizzard, they're pretty experienced in balancing games.
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Posts: 28
Northshire Cleric isn't really that over powered. Most classes have some sort of card draw mechanic. The funniest thing I always see has got to be Buzzard/Snake trap; I always rage so hard.

If blizzard REALLY wanted to nerf northshire, I'd say up the cost by one maybe?

Though I still think that MC and Shadow Word: Death are the largest issues when dealing with priests currently and things that could easily be changed so as to make them still usable, but not entirely game altering.
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Posts: 133
If you nerf mind control, priest will not be worth playing. It's pretty much the only lure that the class has.

Oh hey, I have to get trounced from turns 1 through 7 just for a chance at using a good card! Oh, they got rid of that card? Okay I guess I'm playing mage instead.
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Posts: 133
10/23/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Starscream
We have seen a lot of talk about Mind Control lately, and I wanted to let you know that we are definitely paying attention to your concerns that Mind Control can be pretty powerful as well as frustrating to play against. We are talking about the issue here and looking at the power of Mind Control at different skill levels and in different modes so we can make any adjustments that may be needed. We’re still deliberating the right course of action, but we have heard you guys and we understand your concerns. Keep up the great feedback!


The only people that are complaining about Mind Control are bad players. If they'd learn to play better this would be a non-issue. But in the WoW tradition, if you can't figure out how to beat it, go to the forums and !@#$% about it


QFT
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Posts: 1
The only thing that the development team should afford to do is change the rarity of Mind Control by Base Rare / Epic, this is because the only thing I find unfortunate is that in order to remedy the effect of a base card is to be used a Rare / Epic. This creates a gap at low levels where all the Priests will have the Mind Control, because it is a base card, but not all of his opponents will have the necessary card not yet the Rare / Epic.

Ps: sorry for my bad english.
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Posts: 7
I would like to see Mind Control become:

Cost 2:

Gain control of target creature.

Mind controls mana cost is increased by the casting cost of the targeted creature.
(obvi reword as you see fit).

--

This means you can use it throughout the game, you dont need to get '8 mana worth' to make it worthwhile. It also means you arent going to lose your 9 cost ysera unless they coin into it.

The costs above may be out a bit, but I think its worth consideration.
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Posts: 673
I would like to see Mind Control become:

Cost 2:

Gain control of target creature.

Mind controls mana cost is increased by the casting cost of the targeted creature.
(obvi reword as you see fit).

--

This means you can use it throughout the game, you dont need to get '8 mana worth' to make it worthwhile. It also means you arent going to lose your 9 cost ysera unless they coin into it.

The costs above may be out a bit, but I think its worth consideration.


The purpose of mind control is to be strong against high cost creatures, its design is to make high cost creatures weaker, which is what makes it not a really great spell, since pretty much every strong deck don't utilize a lot of high cost minions. There is nothing wrong with mind control taking an ysera, that is one of the few times it actually gets to be really good.

Having to build your deck entirely around one class is the definition of over powered.

All the cards the priests can kill things with that are class only:

Smite x2
Shadow Word: Pain x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Holy Nova x2
Holy fire x2

Other priest cards that are forms of elimination include:

Cabal Shadow Priest x2
Shadowform x2
Shadow Madness x2
Auchenai Soulpriest x2

Granted, the latter aren't often used, this leaves you with ALL your weaker creatures more than likely dead, while they are capable of healing their own and when you finally drudge through all those spells, MIND CONTROL

Priests are just far too well rounded. They keep their creatures on the board, wipe your and when all else fails they just take your best cards. Having to play the whole game after turn 7-8 as if they have an MC in their hand typically means losing.

The gap between both Shadow Words needs to be increased and I honestly think making Mind Control cost less, but be a one turn control of any minion that you can use ON THAT TURN is completely fair.

How close do other classes come to a priest's in ability to kill stuff? I mean, they are priests and they give rogues a run for their money on the subject of murder. Where is the thematic sense in that?


The sad thing, for priests that is, is that a deck which is good against priest, is a good deck in general.

Every one of my strong decks are currently good against priest, and not in any of them was I thinking about countering priest, it just happens to be that what makes a strong deck, also makes a deck good against priests.

And on the other side of things, bad decks are punished greatly by priest, if there comes a tournament with thousands of participants I'll probably run priest for the first 5 rounds or something to get through the trash, but after that I would need to switch it to something better.

Priests also lack severly in AoE, they have only holy nova for that, people should be abusing this, but oh wait they only have high cost minions so they can't afford to put more than one out at a time for the first 7 turns.

If people also run less creatures with less than 3 health they will drasticly reduce the effectiveness of priests only AoE, holy nova, and make shadow madness far far less useful.
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Posts: 1
I do not have a beta key is found.
But know that targeting.
Warriors finishing moves Card
Sorcerer principalities
Assassination rogues
Humble Warrior
Mark Hunter
Druid naturalization
Warlock Twisting Nether
Fireball Wizard amount
Order to create the best use of this card, or if you take advantage of the card is a monster.

User beta keys just looks good to come ~ ~
When various tactics, but their tactics are simple attack.
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Posts: 188
MC isn't a problem in constructed. It is a problem in arena. Last night I played a deck with 4 MCs, 3 SW:Ps and 3 Templar Enforcers. Went 9-0 with ease.
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Posts: 28
If you nerf mind control, priest will not be worth playing. It's pretty much the only lure that the class has.

Oh hey, I have to get trounced from turns 1 through 7 just for a chance at using a good card! Oh, they got rid of that card? Okay I guess I'm playing mage instead.


If you can't win as a priest in its current state without using MC, you are doing it wrong.

That's part of the reason its so frustrating. The amount of control a priest has between healing and straight up killing is ridiculous. So when you finally get through the billion removal cards they have and then get MCed, a part of your soul dies. Blizzard apparently could not come up with a unified concept for priests that was based around healing and just gave them a fistful of gimmicks instead. I mean, the amount of decks intentionally running a bunch of 4 attack minions right now just to avoid them getting immediately sniped is stupid.
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Posts: 1
i don't want change about mind control. it is not balance breaking. if developer change it's effect developer must change all effect of other deck that have powerful effect
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