Mind Control is on our Mind

The solution to this dilemma is really simple.

Either scale back the early/mid game removal for the priest (this isn't the best option, takes away much of the priest tools), or make Mind Control a "buff" and therefore able to be removed via silence.

It's the simplest fix and one I'd like to see tested.


The problem is that people are asking for fixes to something that is not broken and any solution to weaken it is for that reason poor.


Perhaps, but it's an "unfun" mechanic at best.
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I like seeing this thread - glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way. MC can be very powerful for 8 you get removal + summoning, which is a pretty high cost. However, usually in the game at that point you're getting big guys out there, game enders... that's where it really gets too efficient. Pay 8 for a minion, well a priest gets that minion & removes yours for the same cost.

I understand that in general you need to play around it, but usually that means you just cannot play those bigger, legendaries - they become dead cards unless you want to get them stolen.

I would like to see MC stay the way it is, but be a silence effect. If you remove it, the creature returns. Alternately: once the creature takes damage, it ends.

-aki
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I personally think we should DELETE mind control card and come up with NEW card for priest.

nuff Mind Control wouldn't make much difference.

Priest already have other randomness to steal enemy's card by using

Mind Vision, Mind games, and Thoughtsteal.

Depend on situation, those cards help a player to think enemy's tactics

and possibly prevent that tactics from enemy player.

If you guys only nuff the card, make something like

Mind Control - 8

"Take Control of an enemy minion that cost 5 or less"
OR
"Take Control of a random minion from enemy deck"
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Disable this damn card until you have it fixed.
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Should just swap mind control and shadow madness tbh.

Mind Control - 4
Gain control of a minion with 3 attack or less

Shadow Madness - 6
Gain control of a minion until end of turn, it has charge

Much better options. Both cards would be good, and shadow madness could still be very devastating, but they could no longer take your finisher and keep it forever. MC even existing is a huge reason not to play druid ramp.
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Should just swap mind control and shadow madness tbh.

Mind Control - 4
Gain control of a minion with 3 attack or less

Shadow Madness - 6
Gain control of a minion until end of turn, it has charge

Much better options. Both cards would be good, and shadow madness could still be very devastating, but they could no longer take your finisher and keep it forever. MC even existing is a huge reason not to play druid ramp.


I like this idea a lot. At the end of the day I REALLY think Mind Control should cost less, attack immediately, then end after your turn. That is completely fair.
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SO after reading a lot of post it seems that a lot of the players agree that priest are fine if a little week in high level play, but completely dominant in lower levels. This leads me to the thought that priest are a pubstomp deck. There mechanics require you to play around them and if you don' you lose. This isn't really the case with other classes which makes harder for worse players to beat them but once you know the tricks it becomes pretty easy. This poses an interesting dilemma, how do you balance something for all levels of play? do you nerf it for people who dont know how to play around the card dooming the class in the high levels of competitive play? Or do you leave it the way it is, telling the player base "Get Good Noobs".
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Biggest issue is that some class might have answers to mindcontrol. Like other priest who can mindcontrol his minion back, or mage who can use spellbenders, warlock who plays murlocks etc.

But if you like to play shaman and put those earth elementals, fire elementals and some big legendary in your deck and your opponent happens to be a priest, you just lost the game. Because you have 4-5 cards in your hand and you can't play them. They also have overlord cost so when priest steals that minion you don't just lose that minion. You would lose those overlord mana crystals too. There have to be some kind neutral card that can counter mindcontrol. Like 8 mana cost secret that says "prevent mindcontrol" or "Next control spell has new 1/3 target" Then it's almoust 1:1 trade. (you would lose one turn if priest never plays mindcontrol)
Edited by ile on 10/25/2013 1:44 PM PDT
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I posted this idea to another thread, but I guess it couldn't hurt to post it here as well.

Right now Mind Control is a bit too strong for the current set of cards any deck has to play with, ie decks don't have reliable outs to it, making the thought of Mind Control being in the hand of an opponent Priest a major bottlekneck to the fun and strategy of this game.

My suggestion is to perhaps add some additional effects to it:
1) When Mind Control is played, the player cannot heal.
2) The player loses a continuous 3 health per turn while controlling a Mind Controlled monster.

This ups the anti for both sides of the table:
1) Priests have to actually think about when they want to play Mind Control instead of dropping it the instant a big monster comes out, less they risk losing too much and being put in a bad situation. This way, Mind Control is constricted to a very late game finisher.

2) Other classes actually have a window of opportunity to play and or powerup monsters so they get big, but only in the opportune time when the Priest has to weigh the odds of taking one monster and risk losing health. This way, there is at least some strategy to playing big monsters instead of not playing them at all.
Edited by Absolute on 10/25/2013 2:04 PM PDT
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The problem is that people are asking for fixes to something that is not broken and any solution to weaken it is for that reason poor.


Perhaps, but it's an "unfun" mechanic at best.


Comming from years of yugioh I guess I just don't see it that way, I am seeing a thread that people hate the feeling of "their" cards beating them, but that really feels stupid from me when I come from yugioh at least since its so common that your monsters can work against you in one way or another.

Just the fact that quite a few complain about mind vision tells a lot about how hearthstone players just seem to dislike having their stuff used to beat them, the card itself is bad in anything but gadgetzan decks, but it lets the enemy use one of your own cards to kill you.
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We only have people who can only think straight in here. No imagination used at all, as all you talk about is "attack cap" or "turn limit"

How about:
MC costs 6:
Gain control of a minion with 4 health or less.

Justification:
You need to get your target to below this threshold, meaning if it's a 8/8 creature you will need to sacrifice some creatures or cards to get it to /4 or lower.
As easy as that.
And since priest doesn't really have any spells that can effectively do large amounts of damage, nor weapons, the only possibility is to sacrifice your 4/ creature just to take a damaged 8/4 which you will then need to heal and which can then still be fireballed by enemy. At the very least, a priest will not be able to take over a just-placed legendary, if he has no means of damaging it.

Textual explanation/justification:
"It is hard to take control of a strong body, only a weakened foe can lose control over it's mind"
Edited by Amonra on 10/25/2013 2:50 PM PDT
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No, because then you are putting something in your deck specifically to counter one thing in one class deck. That basically makes that slot you've used useless for 8 of 9 classes, and probably for 50% of those 1 out of 9 matches, as many don't make it far enough for you to have the opening to need it.

It's just easier people keep natural counters the would already have; Mage Polymorph, Shaman Hex, Rogue Assassinate, etc.


then battle cry ...make it like that green woozy thing that eat weapon.

new monster with battle cry take back a card(MC one) or silence 1 enemy(like most druid or option)
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1) Priests have to actually think about when they want to play Mind Control instead of dropping it the instant a big monster comes out, less they risk losing too much and being put in a bad situation. This way, Mind Control is constricted to a very late game finisher.


They do have to Think about when and what they want to mindcontrol. Mindcontrol is the priest win condition, if they mess it up they lose the game. What you as a player who is playing against the. priest is to make that choice hard for them. Don't play your Rag or Yesera or other win condition until you know you can answer theirs.

Other classes actually have a window of opportunity to play and or powerup monsters so they get big, but only in the opportune time when the Priest has to weigh the odds of taking one monster and risk losing health. This way, there is at least some strategy to playing big monsters instead of not playing them at all.


You have 8 turns worth of a window to do that. Seems like plenty of time to me. I already gave you the strategy for playing big monster by baiting MC out. You see MindControl IS a late game finisher
and is always used as such. In a class where the early-midgame is terrible to ok(ish) depending how you build priest needs the hard hitting late game ender that is mind control to be viable otherwise they cant do much out side of super gimmicky super buff decks.
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Just nerf the priest already.
Mindcontrol - silences the minion, reduces its health and attack by 2, then takes control of it.
(Because everybody hate this card, so nerf it already)
Lesser Heal - reduce healing to 1.
Because it is inconsistently powerful. Hunter can damage only the hero, 2 damage, mage can damage everybody 1 damage, warrior can heal himself for 2 points, but priest can heal everybody for ... 2 point? No sense at all.
Northshire cleric - increase cost to 2 or 3. Because if priest lands it on turn 1 you can control it only if you are lucky and get cheap removal on turn 1 or 2. If not, priest has a huge advantage, and the game is just not interesting anymore.
Shadow Word pain - deal 3 damage to a minion with 3 attack or less
Shadow Word death - deal 5 damage to a minion with 5 attack or more
Edited by Goorman on 10/26/2013 5:00 AM PDT
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>>They do have to Think about...
This is true only in the spherical situation in space. However most of the times priest DO NOT have to think what or when to mindcontrol just because players do not have enough cards to have lots of options. Do not pretend mindcontrol is a valid card as it is, it equals to a removal + minion spawn for 8 mana, and that means that it provides effectiveness of two cards for half of the cost.
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10/22/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Eric Dodds
We have seen a lot of talk about Mind Control lately, and I wanted to let you know that we are definitely paying attention to your concerns that Mind Control can be pretty powerful as well as frustrating to play against. We are talking about the issue here and looking at the power of Mind Control at different skill levels and in different modes so we can make any adjustments that may be needed. We’re still deliberating the right course of action, but we have heard you guys and we understand your concerns. Keep up the great feedback!


Remove mind control completely and replace it with something else. Problem with priests as I'm seeing more is that they have too much control. They can one shot minions, fully take advantage of an opponent's deck by copying or mind controlling cards, and heal themselves / their minions. Not only that but they can raise the attack power of minions and health to absurd levels.
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I posted this in other thread, maybe some people mentioned them already.

Mind control need to change, some possibilities are:

1) The minion remain in the priest table until 1 attack with the minion is made or it get damage of any kind, if the minion die the card is lost if the minion survive it return to the opposite player table, hand or deck. Where the card goes is for the developers to decide.

-Difference from Shadow madness is that the minion remain in with the priest until one of the mentioned conditions apply.

-Difference from Mindgames is that is a card from the table and you choose which one.

2) The minion is now property of the priest but it goes to the deck or the hand but not to the table.

-Difference from Thoughtsteal is that is only one card, from the table and is not random.

3) The possessed minion is random, from the table but is permanently with the priest.

-Difference from Shadow madness is that the minion not return to the opposite player after 1 turn.

Damage the priest to end MC is not fair for classes with no extra damage or damage from the Hero. Hunter and mage can easy counter it and druid and rogue have the tool to counter it; shaman, warrior and paladin, rogue and hunter again, can wear weapons and priest can make the heal turn into damage to counter MC but luck takes part on it. Priest at it is and warlock don't have a way to counter MC if the condition of hit the enemy priest is need to end MC unless they have a spell card or a minion that deal direct damage or AOE that can affect the enemy hero in their hand and that is too RGN and this also apply for all classes, also take in consideration that the enemy priest may have a taunt minion or the affected player don’t have minions on the table.
Edited by Azirek on 10/26/2013 11:51 AM PDT
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If I may offer an opinion that doesn't come from a priest player, I think Mind Control SHOULD stay a powerful card to be afraid of. Having played against that card alot, I think the problem is that it allows for no counter-play at all. You play it, take something away, and now your opponent have to deal with a creature.

In my opinion, like many other players said, it should count as an enchantment (like polymorph) so that way, people could use silences as a form of counter-play without packing specific class hate against priests. That and/or perhaps make the card cost 1 more mana. That way people that play legendary creatures (8 mana) can do something with them for one turn before you take it away (unless you went first in the game), and past turn 8, it won't lose any of it's power.

Another option is to make the card Epic rarety. That way it limits the use to 1 time instead of 2.
Edited by Wulf on 10/26/2013 2:16 PM PDT
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Come on.. you don't have to "change" the attributes, only cap it to 1 use. 1 card, not 2 in the same game.

Mind control is a mana expensive card that you can only use once per turn.

Its well thought, just don't let players use 2 in the same game... I'think that's the "unbalanced"
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