Mind Control is on our Mind

Posts: 7
Mind control isnt the problem, its the fact that decks are forced to build around 4 attack points. Suggestion to solve this would be to merge the two shadow words together into one spell where you can choose to either destroy a minion with 3 or less attack, or 5 and over(Like some druid cards).

Because as it stands, priests have essentially four copies of assassinate, cutting the number down to half forces them to choose what to remove rather than use their removal on everything. This also frees up two cards in their decks so there can be some more card diversity.
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Posts: 966
The main ability mind control doesn't sound so bad but the general number of control which makes mindcontrol very strong. You just can't play expensive cards and all low cost cards gets destroyed.
Mages have nice control but not even they can clear so rapidly the board as priest does.

There are a lot classes that can't remove cards and yet priest has so many. I'd say it's either card kills or mind control but not both.
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Posts: 1,606
The issue is that priests minions have too much survivability. Stop focusing on MC for nerfs. They could remove MC tomorrow and Priests would still be OP. The issue is that Temple enforcer gives 3 HP. Holyshield gives 2. Divine Spirit doubles hp. And they can heal for 2 hp every round not including AOE healing + Damage. The fact that they can remove 6 (or more) minions without those minions attacking once because their removal ignores hp, and the fact that you cant remove a minion from the priest unless you can out right kill it in one turn makes them OP. If you throw in Holy Fire and The minion that mind controls a minion with 2 attack or less that number jumps up to 10 minions blasted right off your side of the field. That could very easily be close to ALL of your minions in your deck. The ones that survive, have to survive the minions that they have out. Mind Control is just the cherry on top.

MY biggest issue with MC at the moment (if I have to complain about it) is that one card is having such a massive influence on Ranked Play deck selection. As a Masters 3* player, I know that I have stopped using big play (fun) cards because MC doesn't have much of a counter (unless you are playing a Mage, and even then it's tough). I don't see many big play/legendary cards in play in the bracket either. And I know why... MC. Its better to choose cards that you know won't absolutely own you if they get Mind Controlled.

TLDR: MC is OP but only a tiny portion of the problem. Priests and their minions have way too much survivability.
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Posts: 69
The issue is that priests minions have too much survivability. Stop focusing on MC for nerfs. They could remove MC tomorrow and Priests would still be OP. The issue is that Temple enforcer gives 3 HP. Holyshield gives 2. Divine Spirit doubles hp. And they can heal for 2 hp every round not including AOE healing + Damage. The fact that they can remove 6 (or more) minions without those minions attacking once because their removal ignores hp, and the fact that you cant remove a minion from the priest unless you can out right kill it in one turn makes them OP. If you throw in Holy Fire and The minion that mind controls a minion with 2 attack or less that number jumps up to 10 minions blasted right off your side of the field. That could very easily be close to ALL of your minions in your deck. The ones that survive, have to survive the minions that they have out. Mind Control is just the cherry on top.

MY biggest issue with MC at the moment (if I have to complain about it) is that one card is having such a massive influence on Ranked Play deck selection. As a Masters 3* player, I know that I have stopped using big play (fun) cards because MC doesn't have much of a counter (unless you are playing a Mage, and even then it's tough). I don't see many big play/legendary cards in play in the bracket either. And I know why... MC. Its better to choose cards that you know won't absolutely own you if they get Mind Controlled.

TLDR: MC is OP but only a tiny portion of the problem. Priests and their minions have way too much survivability.


The only one of those that i am really conserned about is Divine spirit, and mainly due to the fact of how it scales with big monsters. Like in that they actually become immortal.

Their survivability have never really impressed me. Temple enforcer gives +3 heath, so what! Fire elemental takes it away for the same cost. It is balanced. Also you can't silence the damage from fire elemental away. Temple enforcers effect also actually requires the priest to actually control a monster beforehand.

The focus on healing and increasing health is something i actually kinda like about the priest class. The problem through is that it is like 4 of their cards that focusses on that.

Rest is those stupid Mind cards that basicly tries to have the priest fight with his opponents cards. Only it is completely random likely lacking any sort of synergy. And the priest is at a tempo loss due to wasting mana on actually getting those cards... That is the terrible part of priest's design. And because it is so terrible they need those broken Shadow words, that bypasses any level of HP, or Divine shield protection, just so that the priest don't die by turn 4.

And you pointed out the exact issue with MC. Yes we may get to a state where Priest according to the numbers are "balanced". Hell they might even become underpowered. But it is due to everyones elses adjustments and through that, a large part of the cards in the game will be completely unplayed. As in most stuff with 7+ mana cost. That is retarded and it shows that while the Priests design might not be Imbalanced so to speak, it is still broken. And it breaks the rest of the game with it.
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Posts: 13
I'm sure someone already complain about it but :

I just had a Priest used mind control on one of my minion. Before I had Ancestral Spirit caston my minion ...

The minion dies .. and retrun to play under the priest control ... really .... come on .. can't you detect who cast the spell and return it to the owner of the minion and control of the Ancestral Spirit spell ...

For boost spell I agree mind control take the buff , we just need to be carefull to note buff just 1 minion ..
but for Ancestral Spirit .. this is none sense ...

PS : same for sap .. return to owner hands ... should go to the owner of the card .. not its controler ...
Edited by Flayioran on 10/27/2013 8:12 PM PDT
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Posts: 20
If Mind Control left a buff on the creature that could be dispelled to return control to its owner, I think that would solve the problem on it.
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Posts: 1,591
10/22/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Eric Dodds
We have seen a lot of talk about Mind Control lately, and I wanted to let you know that we are definitely paying attention to your concerns that Mind Control can be pretty powerful as well as frustrating to play against. We are talking about the issue here and looking at the power of Mind Control at different skill levels and in different modes so we can make any adjustments that may be needed. We’re still deliberating the right course of action, but we have heard you guys and we understand your concerns. Keep up the great feedback!


Please don't be hasty to change it. Before the priest buffs, nobody complained about it. It might just be fine.
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Posts: 116
10/22/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Eric Dodds
We have seen a lot of talk about Mind Control lately, and I wanted to let you know that we are definitely paying attention to your concerns that Mind Control can be pretty powerful as well as frustrating to play against. We are talking about the issue here and looking at the power of Mind Control at different skill levels and in different modes so we can make any adjustments that may be needed. We’re still deliberating the right course of action, but we have heard you guys and we understand your concerns. Keep up the great feedback!


Priests are much more balanced now than they used to be. Mind Control is a good card but it is a core part of the priest's style (stall and win in the late game). If removed, the priest would need another strong late-game card to replace it.

The power level of Mind Control is high against players who play a lot of 5+ cost creatures, but against Mages or Warrior / Hunter / Paladin / Shaman (murlock) decks that rush down a priest, it is a dead card for 7 turns and weak at that point.

It may be that priests are winning slightly more often at the lower leagues, but that is not a blanket statement across all skill levels, it is an easy card to counter.

Just wait for the Blizzcon invitational tournament and you will see.
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Posts: 1
In late game 2 consecutive MC = GG and period, there is no discussion about that. So to my personal definition a card that does that is OP and makes the match pointless.

Thats just my opinion.
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Posts: 2,796
Mind Control - Take over a creature for 1 turn and kill it at the start of your next turn 8 mana cost.
The creature can attack that turn even if it is lacking charge.
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Posts: 4,974
First of all you can do various things to nerf priests properly:

- Change hero power to heal 1 health to minions and 2 to the hero.
- Make both shadow word cards a SET amount of damage rather than instant kills.
- Reduce healing of light well and reduce light well's health to 3.
- Make buffs only stack ONCE period.
- Remove mind control from the game or when a minion is mind control reduce it's stats by 50%. Similar to how some mobs are enslaved / MC'd in WoW are weaker while mc'd.
- Take away cleric's attack power (0/3 card) or make them a 1/2 card.
- Increase the cost of Thoughtsteal to 5 mana
- Increase Mind vision's cost to 3 or remove it from game. Set a limit on the # of cards that can be copied. For example you cannot copy the same card more than once (so say you can't copy and make two deathwings).

Those are just a few things off the top of my head that are just out of control.
Edited by Nightsbane on 10/28/2013 4:36 AM PDT
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Posts: 29
First of all you can do various things to nerf priests properly:

- Change hero power to heal 1 health to minions and 2 to the hero.
- Make both shadow word cards a SET amount of damage rather than instant kills.
- Reduce healing of light well and reduce light well's health to 3.
- Make buffs only stack ONCE period.
- Remove mind control from the game or when a minion is mind control reduce it's stats by 50%. Similar to how some mobs are enslaved / MC'd in WoW are weaker while mc'd.
- Take away cleric's attack power (0/3 card) or make them a 1/2 card.
- Increase the cost of Thoughtsteal to 5 mana
- Increase Mind vision's cost to 3 or remove it from game. Set a limit on the # of cards that can be copied. For example you cannot copy the same card more than once (so say you can't copy and make two deathwings).

Those are just a few things off the top of my head that are just out of control.


Sounds good. Let's do all of them to thin out the Priest hordes that are now 9 out of 10 players in all of Ranked. Ridiculous card synergy and draw power. And btw Blizz, please put someone who knows what balance is in charge of the development of HS.
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Posts: 24
I would hate to see it removed from the game completely. I think it can add to a fun and dynamic game. Maybe just add a negative effect such as; "lose the mind controlled minion's mana cost in life".
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Posts: 2
You could make it so that you can only control rare or lower type cards, that would fix it completely (also makes it much more unique and complex) and maybe give it a lower mana cost.
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Posts: 4
MC is not strong.

Its catch only newbies and "no.obs".
When you play against a Priest you now that there is MC.... why play the biggest Creatures in vulnerable Situation? Dont do it and win.

In "Might and Magic: Duel of Champions" (TCG) is the MC calles "Puppetmaster".
Most Necro players have 4 (!!!) in deck, and never anybody crys.

But, Hearthstone is a kidsgame, for young people, in MMDOC the players a much older and have skill.

I love HS, but in the future is will be a boring game, because the Cry-people... like in Wow...
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Posts: 31
My experiences with mind control:

I like the idea of Mind Control. It fits the priest deck well. It tips the balance of games. It is itself a minion card. When I'm a priest I always have two in my deck. I'd be stupid not to, and that's where I started looking and saying, hmm.... is this too strong? So I've been thinking about all the games where I've lost to a priest. 1/2 the time it was to a minion that got sufficiently buffed after he had drawn out my removals. The other 1/2 the time it was to mind control, or on occasion 2, where after some work or in desperation I played a big minion, and the priest took it and won.

Now would this weaken the priest to a level where it ceases to be competitive. No, I don't think so. I win about 2/5 my games against priests, so I think the priest is definitely one of the stronger classes at the moment. I won't say the strongest, but top three.

My biggest complaint is this: if the priest has the edge in the game by turn 8 the very threat of mind control can cause you to play around it, only using small-medium minions (which you might not have by that point depending on your deck's build and the luck of the draw), not using synergy cards to create a sufficiently powerful minion to start winning, and saving your removals against cost justified minions because you might need to remove your own minion very soon.

I think a less powerful version of mind control would work well. Many of the suggestions have merit and would still allow it to be one of the capstone game changing basic cards for a priest.

I prefer: Take control of an enemy minion for one turn. So remove the summoning sickness and let the minion act for a turn. This can still be a game winning card, annihilating enemy units with instant damage, or even finishing off an enemy hero. It can also flat out remove up to two minions this way if the MC'd minion can work out a mutual annihilation. If the MC'd minion doesn't die it will often come back to the enemy greatly weakened.

This might justify a small reduction in mana cost. I think 7 would be good.

Other excellent solutions:

-Only 1 mind control per deck

-Limit the minions it can control to 4 attack power and lower the mana cost accordingly

-Allow silence to dispel mind control, lower the mana cost accordingly, probably to 6-7.

-

Rebuttals to some of the defenses of mind control:

1) It's the only thing you can do that turn. Turn 8- yes, turn 9- often, turn 10- nonsense, there are a ton of 1-2 mana cards the priest can have access to that synergize well with mind control. More importantly, it can guarantee victory in 1-2 turns or have have such a dramatic effect that it drags the game out for 3-4 more turns especially if you can do it again to whatever they used to neutralize the MC'd minion. Seriously, how much more do you need to do in a turn for 8 mana to justify the cost? There aren't many 8 mana combinations that can do as much, and they take two or more cards.

2) It's all or nothing. Only when you're behind, and MC can be played to tremendous effect when you're ahead by even a little.

3) You have to design your deck around it. Nonsense, it's a removal and a creature card, it has excellent synergy with any strategy.

4) You have to wait for your opponent to play a big minion worth using MC.
- First, at turn 8+ big minions only don't come because your opponent is aware of the threat of MC. In this case the card is working for you just through its existence. Secondly, I've seen a priest win a game by using MC on a Shattered Sun Cleric. Sometimes your opponent has already played, and had countered, all their big minions. Sometimes your opponent has nothing on the board, or is top decking with one medium minion.

5) You have to wait for turn 8+ to play it.
- I see this as a valid point. I think it's cost more than justified for what it does though (I play 8 mana Ironbark Treant, you play MC neutralizing my minion and gaining yours, it's twice as strong in this instance, or you take a Twilight Drake or Frostwolf Warlord for example that has become strong through the synergy of cards played or not played before them) and if you don't want to wait for turn 8 you should be taking other cards and I think the reason many priests don't is because MC is so much better than the other options, which other classes deal with. Ask yourself, how many priests don't take MC? Then ask yourself how many Paladins don't take Lay on Hands if they have it, or how many druids ignore Ironbark Treants, or how many warlocks don't take Twisting Nether if they have it? The answers are respectively very few if any, and quite a few.
-This would be alleviated by my preferred change.
Edited by Bullrath on 10/28/2013 9:27 AM PDT
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Posts: 43
Here's my suggestion:

Mind Control - 8

Silence target Enemy Minion and take control of it. Enemy minion gains Taunt and Can't Attack.

You are still taking his creature away, but now all it becomes is a meat shield. If your opponent wants to attack you through it, he can silence it... but then it can attack (giving you the option as well, but now the 2:1 trade is gone). This also means that when you take a buffed creature, you get an unbuffed version in return.

Edited to add: This could probably also be fine at a lower mana cost, making it a better mid-game card while still retaining the late game power.
Edited by Belgambit on 10/28/2013 11:00 AM PDT
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Posts: 350
Remove it. It's the most lame spell in this game. Sure, it's annoying to lose a powerful creature to a hex or polymorph. Priests, however, have 4 abilities that can do this and one of them gives the priest your powerful minion. Shadow word: death costing 3 mana is a bit ridiculous as it is, too. It's the most powerful single target removal. At least with polymorph and hex they both cost 4 mana and leave a weak creature in play that needs to be dealt with by the shaman or mage. Priests just pop 3 mana and your creature is gone. It's silly. Priest cards in general do not cost enough mana and it gives them an absurd amount of control.

Back on topic, mind control. I don't mind the idea of the card but it's too powerful in its current state especially in the hands of a priest. It is easy for a priest to get board control. If a priest has board control AND a mind control in his hand, GG, you are not ever getting board control back. Drop a strong minion with taunt and despair as one card ends the game for you.

Last night I played a priest who had decent board control, was spanking me a little bit, but I made an amazing play with a questing adventurer that got it to 7/16 and it was going to give me a chance to bring back the game. Instantly he drops a mind control and that's game over. If it was a death I may have had a chance. If it was anything else there was a chance.

Suggestion for how mind control should work:

5 mana. "Mind Control" - Choose an enemy minion to take control of after one turn if your hero does not take damage from a minion.

This introduces an interesting "channeling" mechanic where a priest would want to have a taunt in play in order to use the mind control, or it alternatively forces the enemy to attack the priest instead of the priests minions. Down to 5 mana instead of 8 because it's less powerful.

Summary: priest has way too much removal between pain, death, mind control. Combined with their low mana cost early game domination and card draw, they're a nightmare.
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Posts: 350
Mind control isnt the problem, its the fact that decks are forced to build around 4 attack points. Suggestion to solve this would be to merge the two shadow words together into one spell where you can choose to either destroy a minion with 3 or less attack, or 5 and over(Like some druid cards).

Because as it stands, priests have essentially four copies of assassinate, cutting the number down to half forces them to choose what to remove rather than use their removal on everything. This also frees up two cards in their decks so there can be some more card diversity.


This is also a good idea. Just make a card called "Shadow Word" that allows you to choose either death or pain.

P.S. Northshire cleric should have 2 health OR cost 2 mana. pick one.
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Posts: 466
Just played Priest vs Priest in Arena. I basically had the entire game sewn up, even though the guy had double Northshire Cleric in his starting hand. He ended up having to Mind Control my 4/3 dude because I was playing safe. "Alright, I'm going to assume that he had just the one MC." Play Temple Enforcer, it gets MC'd the next turn. I blow SWD to kill my own dude, and end up attacking him down to 10. He plays a THIRD Mind Control stealing a taunt creature and the game is over.

I had zero Mind Controls in this deck. He had three. This is Arena.

The discussion surrounding whether this card is broken or not (it's 3-1 card advantage if you remove your own creature) is irrelevant at this point. The only relevant factor is that there isn't one single other card in Hearthstone that makes me want to rage quit harder than Mind Control. I even had an Ironbeak Owl FFS, if the MC portion was able to be Silenced.

Fix this game.
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