flamestrike overpowered

Posts: 94
11/02/2013 06:15 AMPosted by Myon
Everyone is in masters right now with the way the ranking works, no need to cite it like it has any kind of credibility.

I really don't care to dig into your hunter examples and rebut them one by one, but I will reiterate that my point on flamestrike stands, you can deal or simply not play.


Third choice being to come here and state his opinion and call for nerfs. Which he is perfectly welcome to do, this is the proper place for it and Blizzard has a history of responding to pressure to nerf classes when appropriate.

So don't act like his only two choices are deal or don't play. This game is still in beta, nerfs are going to happen and I do agree that right now mages need a nerf. My problem is that they have insane AOE+control (way too much freeze) so the natural counter would be stronger individual units or mid units+ buffs which they then just sheep/hero ability or fireball. My beef then is low cost counters to almost anything I could throw. Flamestrike needs to lose damage or cost more mana, maybe hit 3 max targets, that's all. Same goes for Blizzard, more mana, less damage, or a % chance to freeze instead of 100%, guaranteed loss of turn or death for all minions cards are just too strong right now for the price.
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Posts: 94
01/22/2014 06:50 PMPosted by Kirbeh
The problem with Mages is that they only have 2 AOE clears. One is very cheap and weak, and the other is very strong and expensive. Both of these have strengths and weaknesses compared to to other classes. With mages, you're pretty safe to load the board until up to turn 7. You can't afford to do that with other classes.


Eh, you're leaving out +spell damage minion arcane explosion/cone of cold combos. You are not safe to load up the board with the kind of minions you could afford by then, go high health high cost minions and they'll just sheep it.
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Posts: 84
I hope that Blizzard is really doing what they deem reasonable and not just surrendering to nerf-whiners. That is why I normally just ignore topics like this. But since some of the recent changes indicate it might not be the case and that the whiners actually have an impact on the game, I feel the need to respond to this topic.

Mage got hit very badly by the previous nerfs and I understand that, because some aspects of Mage were unfun to play against and Mage was pretty powerful pre-freeze nerfs. The nerfs did a bit more than was expected and at this point the class feels not unplayable, but below average in constructed. Most of the expert Mage cards are currently out of the meta because they are either too slow or underpowered. Though Mage still has strong basic cards like Water Elemental, Fireball, Polymorph, Frostbolt and Flamestrike. The other five basic cards are mostly chosen not because they are good, but because Mage doesn't have better alternatives, the best example being Arcane Intelect which is arguably bad, but still generally the best reliable card draw mechanic the Mage has.

Let's focus on the good Mage cards - the five mentioned above, the five that people whine about and will keep on whining, because they are strong and because they are mostly spells - and new players and weak players hate spells, because they don't know the cards and don't plan against anything that isn't on the board. All these 5 cards seem very strong when taken individually, the thing is they aren't by any means OP. Their price is adequate to their effects. Also they aren't mana-curve friendly, because 3 of this 4 cards stack up on 4 mana - the spot where you'd prefer running neutral minions, cause most 4-drop minions are good. And Flamestrike, while powerful, is either taking the place of some of your late game or defining your deck as slow-paced.

Now considering Flamestrike in particular - first of all it's a SPELL! A spell card is used once and it's all the value you will get from it. A minion stays on the board and can deal damage constantly, thus not only giving you an advantage - because you are ahead, but also putting the opponent in a disadvantageous position - where he needs to remove/control or else he gets further behind. A minion in general can be played at any given moment in a game and it will still have similar value. Of course, it will be advantageous to play it on a clean board or having already secured board advantage, but still the value of the minion itself isn't greatly affected by the state of the board save for the extreme cases. A value of a damage spell is greatly affected by the state of the board, because playing a Flamestrike against a board of two totems is most of the time wrong. Playing almost any minion against a board of two totems will be reasonable.

So a spell is a situational card. Now consider that a situational card needs to be in the players hand precisely at the moment in which he needs to play it. If a situation calls for a Flamestrike and you don't have a Flamestrike in hand, you either die, or you trade unfavorably and get the Flamestrike in your hand in a position where the card isn't of that great help. Of course to some extent that could be said about almost every card. The thing is, Mages have very poor draw mechanics. Arcane Intelect makes your deck shorter and doesn't give a significant hand advantage. Gadgetzan Auctioneer is hard to combo because Mage spells tend to be too expensive. Acolyte of Pain is just slow and mana expensive, needs a very good setup to be efficient. Plus, Flamestrike is extremely expensive, so excluding Arcane Intelect, it's hard too look for the card and play it on the same turn.

All of this actually makes Flamestrike a clumsy card, that is really hard to use to it's full potential unless your opponent is playing into your hands by overextending - which is a common error of unexperienced players. If you are an experienced player and yet you are overextending and then blaming the loss on card balance, you're experienced but bad at the game, it's as simple as that, because Flamestrike isn't the only card that can hurt you if you overextend and you should be aware that most Mages will run this card. It's just like cards like for example Ragnaros, if you spend your hard removal on something small and then have no means of coping with a real threat, than you can't blame the card balance.

Another thing is that before the nerf of Blizzard, almost all Mages considered Flamestrike to be an overkill, situational card and valued it much less than the 5 mana 2 damage board wipe, that was comparable to both Consecration and Holy Nova. And Blizzard got nerfed not because the card was OP, but because all of the freeze plays combined were considered OP. So you're calling for a nerf to a card that Mages run only because their first choice card, comparable to other classes cards, already got nerfed.

Finally, you're crying about Mage removal, while Shaman's does basically the same and is far more efficient. Why aren't there as many whines about Shaman? Because Shaman removal are expert cards, so they're not that popular at lower ranks, or you can just whine in general that the game is P2W.
Edited by AJAvalanche on 2/11/2014 12:59 AM PST
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Posts: 749
If you think that this game's class-specific cards are meant to be balanced against each other by mana cost, you're dead wrong. They're balanced based on the entire kit (card catalog) of the class and what that class is meant to excel at doing. Mages get Blizzard or Flamestrike. Druids get Force of Nature + Innervate + Savage Roar x2. Do you see more than one class with the ability to turn their low-health summoner into Jaraxxus and summon 6/6 minions for 2 mana every turn?
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Posts: 29
Flamestrike is overpowered but get used to it cus all these pussys are probably playing mages and dont want the nerf. its not the flamestrike that is the problem its the fact that mage allready have so many AoE clear the bord spells allready if u top that off with a flamestrike or 2 just for when things do get bad its definitly OP and doesnt take much skill to use. no mage is gonna cast flamestrike for only 2/3 mobs with !@#$ty health they have enough spells for that so stop with the class i play isnt anything OP about it. and yes i sometimes play mage to and i have to say its fairly easy considering the other classes.

But i dont want my class to get nerfed QQ.

Btw i wus just browsing the forums and just had to respond on that BS
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Posts: 144
03/17/2014 04:00 AMPosted by Longjohn
Flamestrike is overpowered but get used to it cus all these pussys are probably playing mages and dont want the nerf. its not the flamestrike that is the problem its the fact that mage allready have so many AoE clear the bord spells allready if u top that off with a flamestrike or 2 just for when things do get bad its definitly OP and doesnt take much skill to use. no mage is gonna cast flamestrike for only 2/3 mobs with !@#$ty health they have enough spells for that so stop with the class i play isnt anything OP about it. and yes i sometimes play mage to and i have to say its fairly easy considering the other classes.

But i dont want my class to get nerfed QQ.

Btw i wus just browsing the forums and just had to respond on that BS


Or you are just bad.
I understand the frustration though, nobody wants to loose in cards games. But the first step of becoming a better player is the ability to see what you did wrong with your plays and how to improve your abilities so you wont make the mistakes anymore. This holds true for every card game, be it mtg or hi/lo omaha.
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Posts: 237
flamestrike costs 7 freaking mana. its not OP its a powerful card, but not overpowered
Edited by RioKamishiro on 3/17/2014 9:08 AM PDT
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Posts: 1
you kno this kid just trolled every one of you right ? obvious af op
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Posts: 24
Or you could, you know, learn to roll out your threats intelligently instead of playing every minion you draw. Or play minions that don't care like Harvest Golem or one's with battlecry.

Not to say I totally approve of the asymmetrical nature of the class-specific wraths in this game, but you shouldn't lose to a Flamestrike. Unless you're playing murlocs, in which case why didn't you win turn 6.
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Posts: 140
is taking the fun out of a game card like so many that class has, remove mage and game is fine and cards do what they need to do and you dont have to go fish out the ussual cards.
no brain class and no fun doesnt belong in the game
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Posts: 44
While I agree that FS is a bit OP, it can be baited out. But mages in general have too many stupid tricks to deal with things.

Only class that can kill a Fearie dragon on turn 1 that I know of (excluding secrets, which they have 1 that woudl do it also but it would be a waste)
ability to lock down entire boards to make doomsayer a valid play if it is going very wrong for you
10 damage to the face with 1 card regardless of taunts, or 15 in one turn with 3 cards (yes I know priests can do 10 with 2 and heal but I hate them also)
One of the most OP openers in the game with luck - mana wyrm, coin mirror putting a 3/3 with 2 0/2 taunts on turn one

So to sum up, I hate mages, I die a little inside every time I face one and I tend to face them a lot. Now I am sure at top ranks they are "perfectly balanced" but not everyone plays at rank 3 and better
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Posts: 549
10/24/2013 06:26 PMPosted by SCWarkos
People like you give me cancer.


Must suck having to do chemo all the time huh?
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Posts: 522
10/24/2013 05:58 PMPosted by Kratier
yup its my fault that a 7 mana card is able to completely clear the field

its not balanced no other class can do something like that, its op


Priest can do 4 dam to all minions and summon a 3/1 for 4 mana
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Posts: 44
07/14/2014 05:10 AMPosted by Yune
Priest can do 4 dam to all minions and summon a 3/1 for 4 mana


Note ALL minions, including his own but he needs another card down for that to work. Overall mages have I think too many tools for "cheesing" games
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Posts: 1,526
Oh wow, it's this thread again.

There seems to be this endless line of dopy, pathetic, whining idiots, all holding onto the back of the belt of the dopy idiot in front of them, blundering in here to throw a tantrum and soil themselves in front of the group. Don't you imbeciles have any self respect?

It's a shame there's no way to age-gate the forums, so the under 18's are either banned, or have their own area to throw strops and "troll" (how original!) eachother.
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Posts: 44
07/17/2014 03:39 AMPosted by Scerion
Oh wow, it's this thread again.

There seems to be this endless line of dopy, pathetic, whining idiots, all holding onto the back of the belt of the dopy idiot in front of them, blundering in here to throw a tantrum and soil themselves in front of the group. Don't you imbeciles have any self respect?

It's a shame there's no way to age-gate the forums, so the under 18's are either banned, or have their own area to throw strops and "troll" (how original!) eachother.


Well since you contribute so much to this post yourself, I will "bite"

If so many people complain about a class or a card, do you honestly think that they are all wrong?

Now as for your post, you added nothing constructive and were no better than those that you complain about so this makes you slightly hypocritical.

The reason people complain about it, is it is the only card that can deal 4 damage - which is a lot of damage and enough to remove almost everything at below 7 mana - but there is no penalty for the mage compared to other classes that also need to combo cards for similar effects and in most cases have a punishment for the one playing.it. Now everyone will say you need to bait it out, but I would ask you (since you are clearly an expert and we are mouth breathers) to name another class that you need to bait out a super powerful AoE that doesn't have negative effects for the one playing
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Posts: 30
SARCASM ON

Because 6 damage for 4 mana is balanced, especially compared to 4damage to a minion for 3 mana.

and 3 damage and freeze should ABSOLUTELY not cost 3, I mean it is not like 3 damage on itself costs 2 and freezing something 1 mana.

Or 4 damage to all enemy minions for 7, that should obviously be 1 mana!

or a 1/3, everyone knows 1/3's cost 0 mana and ''gain 1 attack for every spell you play'' is of course 1 mana.

Or a 3/6 which freezes everything it hits costs 4, I mean duh, a 4/5 on it's own costs 4 but freezing everything you hit is not underpriced at ALL, how could it.

SARCASM OFF
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Posts: 30
It is, 1 damage to all enemy minions costs double the damage, 2.
2 damage to all enemys costs double the damage, 4
so 4 damage to all enemy minions should cost double, 8, not 7.
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Posts: 521
07/13/2014 05:01 AMPosted by Archermit
While I agree that FS is a bit OP, it can be baited out. But mages in general have too many stupid tricks to deal with things.

Only class that can kill a Fearie dragon on turn 1 that I know of (excluding secrets, which they have 1 that woudl do it also but it would be a waste)
ability to lock down entire boards to make doomsayer a valid play if it is going very wrong for you
10 damage to the face with 1 card regardless of taunts, or 15 in one turn with 3 cards (yes I know priests can do 10 with 2 and heal but I hate them also)
One of the most OP openers in the game with luck - mana wyrm, coin mirror putting a 3/3 with 2 0/2 taunts on turn one

So to sum up, I hate mages, I die a little inside every time I face one and I tend to face them a lot. Now I am sure at top ranks they are "perfectly balanced" but not everyone plays at rank 3 and better


You are really going to complain about one card that cost TEN mana to do 10 damage to the face, when you have mind blast that can do 5 damage to the face for TWO mana. So if you use two mind blasts that is TEN damage for FOUR MANA. How is that not super OP for a priest?

And mind blast is a basic card that every priest gets and they get two of them. I guess mind blast should be Nerfed too right

As a mage I would gladly take the mind blast over polymorph. Because doing 10 damage for 4 mana is super powerful.
Edited by davelanger on 7/17/2014 10:11 AM PDT
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Posts: 478
What everyone is trying to tell you is to not play any minions till 7 mana and after 7 mana. Just use your spells.......oh wait.
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