Card Draw + Minion Buffs Deck

Posts: 287
I played against you when using this deck with my refined Druid Midrange deck.

I didn't draw any faerie dragons or golems and there was nothing I could do to stop this deck, since the tournament I've been seeing this deck a lot and it's a total beast.

I hate how boring and cheap the cards are (novice engineer, loot hoarder , shattered sun, dark iron) compared to how good the deck is. I see tons of classes using the exact same neutral card set-up and adding class spells to complete it. It's terribly boring to play against, and is forcing many players into using the exact same cards.

This deck isn't anything new, but my god is it effective.

Props to you for creating the deck, although I absolutely hate playing against it.
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Posts: 5,623
I played against you when using this deck with my refined Druid Midrange deck.

I didn't draw any faerie dragons or golems and there was nothing I could do to stop this deck, since the tournament I've been seeing this deck a lot and it's a total beast.

I hate how boring and cheap the cards are (novice engineer, loot hoarder , shattered sun, dark iron) compared to how good the deck is. I see tons of classes using the exact same neutral card set-up and adding class spells to complete it. It's terribly boring to play against, and is forcing many players into using the exact same cards.

This deck isn't anything new, but my god is it effective.

Props to you for creating the deck, although I absolutely hate playing against it.

my mage run a deck with those neutral + spell/CoC +Pyro so nice :D
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Posts: 287
Indeed, when i look at the classes that would benefit most from the "Neutral Foundation" cards, Mage and Warlock come to mind.

What's really surprising is how well the Neutral Foundation cards work with Rogue.
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Posts: 1,463
When I need to complete some daily quests for a deck I haven't made (because I ran out of my 9 deck slots), I usually have one floating slot. I just make this deck, add 4 of the best class spells and usually play 3 or sometimes win the 2 games needed for the daily right away.

This deck is effective, but It's not tied strictly to rogue. It's boring to play against and when playing. But like Icarium said, it's really really really effective. If I want to grind some gold really fast, I tend to just pick this deck. Also makes games fast. more games in a shorter period of time, feels like gold is acquired faster.

I went on a huge winning streak with my druid control deck, but games generally lasted 35 min+, and it felt like forever to get that gold.
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Posts: 5,623
Indeed, when i look at the classes that would benefit most from the "Neutral Foundation" cards, Mage and Warlock come to mind.

What's really surprising is how well the Neutral Foundation cards work with Rogue.

doing on my rogue is tough when game drag too long and the opponent use strong card at end so im going to try with sylvanas or faceless or leeroy or maybe even blacknight since those taunt are annoying when you try to kill the player and happen often.Aggro lock that run similar deck are also pretty tough when they go 2nd with coin

Faced a murlorc warlock earlier who taunted me the whole game and I killed him at 2hp at round 7 or so was hilarious.Paladin are pretty annoying with weapon and all their divine shield/buff.Worst game have to be vs all freeze mage with frost bolt,frost nova,cone cold,blizzard,frost elemental etc frozen for like 90% of the damn game freaking 20min game.
Edited by Asura on 11/5/2013 8:26 PM PST
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Posts: 84
tryed this deck ... Well it works , i mean strong creatures are enough to deal with other creatures ... a bit sad it has little rogueish but better then nothing :)

Still lacking thalanos tho , and waiting for nat being fixed wana get him in .i think i added sylvanas .
Was thinking she wasnt that great ... but for such a solid 5 5/5 she is actually great . Well thanks :)
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Posts: 6
Do you think trading 1 Harvest golem for a Perdition Blade could be worth it? Perdition blade is just such strong removal + now that you added argent squires to the deck you can combo it more consistently.
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Posts: 45
I haven't tried the deck yet, because I don't have any cards (though I've got a quest to play with Rogue, so might as well attempt a poor man's version of the deck), but after a couple of matches in that vid I definitely see the kind of play you're going too. I'm pausing before each turn and making decisions akin to the ones you do, I think I'm getting the idea of this deck. Can't wait to try it!

The thing I wanted to comment the most was... That Overload Shaman you fought twice, he got 4 Spell totems out of 6 times he used his skill. Wtf that luck lol
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Posts: 830
11/08/2013 11:34 AMPosted by Sanctum
Do you think trading 1 Harvest golem for a Perdition Blade could be worth it? Perdition blade is just such strong removal + now that you added argent squires to the deck you can combo it more consistently.


It's definitely a bit of a tough call removing the perdition's blades - personally I haven't really regretted adding in the harvest golems. Harvest golems are a pain to remove (especially on turn 3), so they're very likely to leave something behind to be buffed by the clerics/dwarves. This deck also often has a bit of a dead turn on turn 3, where it can only really spend 2 mana (many of the 3 drops in the deck use combos, so I often just play a loot hoarder or novice engineer or something instead), and harvest golem can fill that gap nicely.

The main problem with perdition's blade is that usually I prefer using backstab/SI:7 agent and deadly poison. If the opponent doesn't happen to have 2 minions with 2 health out, then I'll almost always prefer using backstab or SI:7 agent. Against 3 health minions perdition's can be used to kill it without requiring the combo.. but deadly poison is better for that. Even without deadly poison backstab + hero power can still kill a 3 health minion for 1 less mana, though it leaves you with a 1/1 weapon instead of a 2/1 weapon. Against 1 health minions I'll just hero power instead of perdition's.

Since I often found myself preferring the other removal options over perdition's blade, and it also sometimes conflicts with the hero power a bit (usually a minor issue but still a nuisance) - I didn't find it that big of a deal to swap it out - though it is a really solid card still, I just couldn't find the space for it. I usually go with the idea that if I don't consider it a big deal to remove a card from a deck, that you should remove it.

That said, in a tournament that allows sideboarding, if you're against an opponent where you need AoE abilities, it should be used along with blade flurry.
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Posts: 45
Hey, I noticed you had lethal at 24:43, right after the Azure drake. 8 dmg on the board + 2 SI:7 + 3 empowered Backstab + 3 from the poisoned weapon = 16.

I'm loving the math on this deck!

Also, how do you feel about Patient Assassin? In case you're ever bothered by a 52/52 Gurubashi Bererker or something lol
Edited by Kurai on 11/8/2013 12:47 PM PST
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Posts: 5,623
@kithros so you actually removed both perdition for golems? I havent tried that as I couldn't really imagine how that would play out considering that 2dmg from combo and its dmg help clear minion ;specially if you have none of the board/got cleared.Golems is a pain to remove however and perdition is only 1 more dmg than base weapon so ya..
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Posts: 71
Still playing with this deck. I noticed it has terrible dead moments around turn 3 where all your drops need to buff something else or to combo, but you dont have the crystals to combo nor something to buff so they sit there or drop alone losing so much value.

Also, i happened to lose the first game with such an advantage like the one i had. Vs a druid, he had empty board and 1 card, i had 2-3 minions on the board and 4 cards. He kept drawing ironbarks protector, ancient of lore and others fatties that forced me costantly in terribles 3 for 1 trade till he recovered from disadvantage and eventually won when dropping an ysera. Didnt think i could lose a game where i was so far ahead in Hearthstone tbh. It kinda pissed me off.

The deck is well tuned tough, i guess it has to face some weaknesses. I'm playing the version with Squires, i find them really good and allow to combo off easily. Also without them the deck was struggling to keep something to buff on the field.

On a side note, non otk hunters looks like to be a really hard matchup
Edited by Shyntil on 11/8/2013 3:06 PM PST
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Posts: 830
Hey, I noticed you had lethal at 24:43, right after the Azure drake. 8 dmg on the board + 2 SI:7 + 3 empowered Backstab + 3 from the poisoned weapon = 16.

I'm loving the math on this deck!

Also, how do you feel about Patient Assassin? In case you're ever bothered by a 52/52 Gurubashi Bererker or something lol


Actually backstab can't be used on players (especially since he was damaged too, though it wouldn't have been useable on him even if he were at full health). I could'nt have killed him that turn, though I think there was 1 or 2 times in the video where I missed lethal and then realized afterwards that I could've killed, but that wasn't one of them.

As far as patient assassin goes, I find he's a bit risky if the opponent has any kind of AoE (this deck already can be rather weak to AoEs a lot of the time), and as for direct removal in general - for most minions I prefer just trading my 2/1s (buffed with dark iron dwarf if I have him), using my eviscerates and argent commanders etc. to kill them. An argent commander can trade with an 8/8 all by itself pretty much. Sometimes I lose card advantage dealing with big stuff - but I usually deal with it very mana efficiently so the opponent typically dies soon after.
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Posts: 6
Do you think trading 1 Harvest golem for a Perdition Blade could be worth it? Perdition blade is just such strong removal + now that you added argent squires to the deck you can combo it more consistently.


It's definitely a bit of a tough call removing the perdition's blades - personally I haven't really regretted adding in the harvest golems. Harvest golems are a pain to remove (especially on turn 3), so they're very likely to leave something behind to be buffed by the clerics/dwarves. This deck also often has a bit of a dead turn on turn 3, where it can only really spend 2 mana (many of the 3 drops in the deck use combos, so I often just play a loot hoarder or novice engineer or something instead), and harvest golem can fill that gap nicely.

The main problem with perdition's blade is that usually I prefer using backstab/SI:7 agent and deadly poison. If the opponent doesn't happen to have 2 minions with 2 health out, then I'll almost always prefer using backstab or SI:7 agent. Against 3 health minions perdition's can be used to kill it without requiring the combo.. but deadly poison is better for that. Even without deadly poison backstab + hero power can still kill a 3 health minion for 1 less mana, though it leaves you with a 1/1 weapon instead of a 2/1 weapon. Against 1 health minions I'll just hero power instead of perdition's.

Since I often found myself preferring the other removal options over perdition's blade, and it also sometimes conflicts with the hero power a bit (usually a minor issue but still a nuisance) - I didn't find it that big of a deal to swap it out - though it is a really solid card still, I just couldn't find the space for it. I usually go with the idea that if I don't consider it a big deal to remove a card from a deck, that you should remove it.

That said, in a tournament that allows sideboarding, if you're against an opponent where you need AoE abilities, it should be used along with blade flurry.


Yeah, that's exactly why I also decided against it too. Perdition Blade might have helped me out in some cases, however, I felt harvest golem would be more consistent. Just wanted your input on the matter.

Another question: Are there some matchups where you would consistently want to coin VanCleef on turn 2 and others where you prefer to save him for lategame? (It's obviously also situational)
Edited by Sanctum on 11/8/2013 5:13 PM PST
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Posts: 830
Another question: Are there some matchups where you would consistently want to coin VanCleef on turn 2 and others where you prefer to save him for lategame? (It's obviously also situational)


It depends a lot more on the situation than the matchup really. There are a lot of factors that can influence this, but if there's nothing esle to do with your turn, then coining out VanCleef is usually the right play.

There are a lot of situational combinations, like if you have a Defias Ringleader + a deadly poison in my hand I would just hero power and end turn, or if the opponent has anything worth removing there are all kinds of things that might be worth doing. If I had a harvest golem in my hand I would probably rather coin out the harvest golem than VanCleef, since VanCleef has more value late in the game than harvest golem and a 4/4 VanCleef isn't that much different from a harvest golem. I'd usually prefer playing novice engineer or loot hoarder instea dand holding onto the coin - again, depending on what the opponnet has in play.
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Posts: 75
Kithros, I just want to say thank you for this incredible deck. Been having a lot of fun with it and have had a high win streak. I just got finished reading this thread through and I'm going to remove the Gnomish Inventors for Argent Squires.

I have a friend coming over in a few that I want to show the gameplay of this deck to. Can't wait. I played paladin almost exclusively until I tried this deck out. Valeera is gaining a lot of levels since I threw this bad boy together! Haha.
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Posts: 6
11/08/2013 08:21 PMPosted by Kithros
Another question: Are there some matchups where you would consistently want to coin VanCleef on turn 2 and others where you prefer to save him for lategame? (It's obviously also situational)


It depends a lot more on the situation than the matchup really. There are a lot of factors that can influence this, but if there's nothing esle to do with your turn, then coining out VanCleef is usually the right play.

There are a lot of situational combinations, like if you have a Defias Ringleader + a deadly poison in my hand I would just hero power and end turn, or if the opponent has anything worth removing there are all kinds of things that might be worth doing. If I had a harvest golem in my hand I would probably rather coin out the harvest golem than VanCleef, since VanCleef has more value late in the game than harvest golem and a 4/4 VanCleef isn't that much different from a harvest golem. I'd usually prefer playing novice engineer or loot hoarder instea dand holding onto the coin - again, depending on what the opponnet has in play.


It's nice to know that I've been playing correctly. Although I usualy played VanCleef instead of the draw minions turn 3.
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Posts: 18
Great deck, great thread. Learning to play this deck has taught me a lot about the game in general.

Questions about when to use my weapon: do you always poke the enemy hero with the dagger whenever u can or do you save poison blade durability for minion clear?

Also there are games where I feel I've put myself at a disadvantage because I clear minions with my dagger and kept taking damage. How do you decide when NOT to clear minions with your dagger?

Lastly, Kithros, your two videos are a must-watch. Hope you post more!
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Posts: 830
Great deck, great thread. Learning to play this deck has taught me a lot about the game in general.

Questions about when to use my weapon: do you always poke the enemy hero with the dagger whenever u can or do you save poison blade durability for minion clear?

Also there are games where I feel I've put myself at a disadvantage because I clear minions with my dagger and kept taking damage. How do you decide when NOT to clear minions with your dagger?

Lastly, Kithros, your two videos are a must-watch. Hope you post more!


Using the hero power against the enemy hero is almost always a misplay, unless you anticipate needing to hero power next turn or are hero powering the same turn. As for when not to us ethe hero power to kill minions - it depends a lot on the matchup. Against hunters and mages I tend to use deadly poison/hero power for removal much less for instance.

Usually it comes down to 'Do I think I can win without taking damage on my hero?' - if you're in a position where you're down on card advantage and don't have a strong board presence - then you should be using your hero power for removal even if you're down to 10 health. If you don't you're guaranteed to lose (even if a bit slower), whereas if you do you still have a chance at winning. If you already have card advantage and strong board presence you rarely need to use your hero power because you're so far ahead that there's no reason to take that risk (though even then I usually still do at 20+ life if the opponent has 1 health stuff out).
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Posts: 1,744
Kithos whatd you think about Sylvanas? Over say 1 dwarf or 1 defender
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