Priest Discussion: Are they OP?

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Posts: 174
PLEASE READ FIRST: This thread is intended for the friendly and intelligent discussion regarding Priests and their “solidity” in Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft.

Over the passed day or so I've seen dozens of people complaining about Priests, saying: “Mind Control is so OP, fix it!” or “Priests are so OP, they need to be fixed!”, and I can't help but think to myself “why?”. Coming from MTG I know just how obnoxious control decks can be, currently (in MTG: Duels of the Planeswalkers) there is this deck called “Dodge and Burn”, it's a control deck in the most potent form. It has a ton of mass removal, a lot of single target removal and boat loads of counter spells, is used quite frequently and is very powerful. I got it one day via the “random deck” feature and ended up winning that match almost one sided. My opponent got my health down to 6, but beyond that point I was able to completely lock my opponent down and defeat them. I bring this up because, quite obviously, Priests are, like Mage, a control proficient class.

Without their ability to control any situation, Priests are extremely vulnerable because control is what Priests are built around. With that said, this doesn't make them “OP” by any means. Everything that a Priest can do can be countered, I think the problem is that most people either: A) don't know how to do this or; B) aren't prepared to do this when they, inevitably, get matched against a Priest. What I mean by this isn't that people are “bad players” by any means but simply that, perhaps, they're not knowledgeable or are ill prepared. Since one of the most complained about topics is regarding Mind Control, let's start with that.

Mind Control is, obviously, really powerful. This is, arguably, a Priest's most powerful ability currently in game. But it can be beaten. When facing a Priest simply know that your minions are never safe and that simply playing Taunt minions won't be enough, you also have to adjust your strategy. One thing that people should, perhaps, look into is balancing their decks to not have to rely on really big minions to win games for them. But should your minions, despite your most valiant of efforts, still get taken control of and turn on you, be prepared to murder said minion(s) horribly with a “Hard Removal” ability.

Hard removal: Naturalize, Deadly Shot, Polymorph, Equality + Consecrate or Avenging Wrath, Shadow Word: Death or Shadow Word: Pain (depending on the situation), Assassinate, Hex, Siphon Soul or Twisting Nether and Execute, are all abilities that people should have in their appropriate decks for any case of emergency, including the inevitable Mind Control. But one mistake that I think a lot of people are making is using their HR abilities “willy nilly” (without consideration). You have to consider all possibilities before making the decision to use an HR ability because there could be something much better staring you in the face. This means that you, sometimes, might have to sit back and let your opponent beat on your face with their minions or sacrifice your own minions in order to gain the advantage. What I'm trying to say by all of this is that people need to learn when not to play HR abilities and when to play HR abilities, saving them for when they are truly needed.

Secondly. I'd like to talk about Shadow Word: Death and Shadow Word: Pain. Shadow Word: Death costs 3 mana and destroys any minion with an Attack amount greater then or equal to 5. Shadow Word: Pain costs only 2 mana and destroys any minion with an Attack amount less then or equal to 3. With this in mind, both of these have severe limitations because of two reasons.

The first reason being RNG. RNG (Random Number Generator) is a mechanic that many games are now utilizing simply because it's fair and unbiased and as result allows for fair games to be made. The way that RNG comes into play here is card draw. Say you're up against an early game rush deck as a Priest and only have a Shadow Word: Death and, perhaps, a Holy Nova in your hand in terms of removal. You're not going to be able to use that Holy Nova until at least turn 5 (4 with the coin) meaning that you're going to have to, somehow, hold out until then, or get lucky by drawing into a Shadow Word: Pain, and even then it might not be enough. And because Shadow Word: Death can only be used on minions with 5 or more Attack that's useless as well. Yes, depending on the deck, this might not be a huge issue because, as the Attack of your opponent's minion(s) gets buffed, you will eventually be able to use it and destroy said minion(s), but that still might not be enough.

The second reason is the concept “Priest Proof”. “Priest Proof” refers to the weak spot between these two HR abilities. What this means is that minions with 4 Attack can not be targeted by either of these cards. This is quite significant. Here is a brief list of what I think are powerful 4 Attack minions:

1. Succubus
2. Jungle Panther
3. Argent Commander
4. Big Game Hunter
5. Ysera. Her Dream cards are as follows:
1. Dream
2. Emerald Drake
3. Laughing Sister
4. Nightmare
5. Ysera Awakens

This brings me to my next point of discussion. “Without Mind Control, how is a Priest supposed to deal with some of these creatures?” Thank you for asking! Yes, Priests do have other means of dealing with potential threats such as: Holy Smite, Inner Fire, Shadow madness and Holy Fire, but how powerful are these abilities? Well. In regard to the Succubus, Holy Smite would be a bad trade because Succubus has 3 Health but it would trade well for such minions as Knife Juggler or Jungle Panther. “Haven't I seen this card before?” I believe we have: Arcane Shot! Inner Fire is a gimmick at best by itself. When, given the right situation and, coupled with Shadow Word: Pain it could very well deal with big threats that suddenly appear, but this has a significant drawback, the targeted minion has to have a Health amount of 3 or less... This too looks familiar. Oh yeah! Humility and Aldor Peacekeeper.

Shadow Madness is an exceptionally powerful ability as it can be used as both an offensive and defensive mechanism but, quite obviously, it has it limitations. Like Shadow Word: Pain it can only affect minions with 3 or less attack. This too is a tad similar to other cards: Mind Control Tech and Sylvanas Windrunner. Lastly. Holy Fire is actually, arguably, the only other super powerful ability that a Priest has at it's disposal. However. It costs 6 mana... But I digress. Holy Fire can, indeed, be used to take out a massive variety of minions (anything with 5 or less Health and can be targeted) but, at the cost of 6 mana, is it really worth it? That depends on the trade really, so both yes/no. And while there aren't any other 5 damage abilities that heal your hero, there are a bunch of other 5 damage abilities (not including weapons): Starfire, Kill Command (when comboed with a Beast) and Lava Burst. What I'm trying to do by comparing all of these cards is raise awareness as to what cards exist out there that are very similar the abilities that a Priest already has.

My last point of discussion is regarding gimmicks. Gimmicks such as using Divine Spirit on minions such as Lightspawn and Lightwell are cool, sometimes, very funny and, to your opponent, very “OP”, but at what cost? Well. In the case of Lightspawn, at the cost of a lot; too much in fact. If you haven't noticed, Lightspawn has the potential to get very big but the thing that a lot of people fail to consider is maintenance. If your Lightspawn takes any amount of damage then you, more/less, have to heal it to get it back to it's former glory, otherwise everything you've put into it will have been for naught. (It really isn't worth it) You can do this very same gimmick on just about every type of minion: Jungle Panther and Stranglethorn Tiger, for example. But you end up wasting too many cards/resources in the process for it to be worth it because all your opponents have to do is silence your gimmicky minion or destroy it with an HR ability. These are no where near as scary as people think they are.

In closing. I'd like for everyone to simply consider your options to combat your opponents at large rather then focus on complaining about Priests. Priests may need some tweaking, but so do all of the classes, Priests are not overpowered. As a reminder. Please keep the discussion friendly and intelligent. If y'all have ideas or points that you'd like to add feel free to do so. Otherwise. Have a good one!
Edited by cyndelaq on 10/29/2013 11:26 AM PDT
Posts: 148
Wall of text we've already heard before from a priest player. You're not going to convince anyone and arguing players should build their decks around "countering priests" is not balance.
Posts: 815
To me it's not about whether priests are OP or can be beaten. I can beat priests at least 50% of the time. I just don't enjoy having my own cards played against me. Mind control, thought steal, mind vision, etc... Even when I win against them the game was not fun. It's just not fun having your own cards stolen and used against you.
Posts: 174
10/29/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Respec
Wall of text we've already heard before from a priest player. You're not going to convince anyone and arguing players should build their decks around "countering priests" is not balance.


I never once tried to argue for people to build their decks around Priests, I was speaking in general terms. And, hopefully you're wrong about not convincing people because being able to admit that you're wrong and then grow as an individual is an important process of becoming older/being Human.

10/29/2013 11:10 AMPosted by Jogan
To me it's not about whether priests are OP or can be beaten. I can beat priests at least 50% of the time. I just don't enjoy having my own cards played against me. Mind control, thought steal, mind vision, etc... Even when I win against them the game was not fun. It's just not fun having your own cards stolen and used against you.


I understand perfectly, there are "mind control" cards in MTG as well, and it sucks every time when your creatures is taken from you, but that happens. You don't have to like it, but complaining about it in the hopes that it will go away isn't the answer, its an answer but not the answer.
Posts: 815
10/29/2013 11:31 AMPosted by cyndelaq
I understand perfectly, there are "mind control" cards in MTG as well, and it sucks every time when your creatures is taken from you, but that happens. You don't have to like it, but complaining about it in the hopes that it will go away isn't the answer, its an answer but not the answer.


It's a beta. We're supposed to give feedback on the game. If we find a particular part of the game to be really not fun then the beta testers should be speaking up about it.
Posts: 3
Priests are too strong at lower ranks because of their core cards being in their base set. As you get into higher ranks with everyone having access to their important rares/epics and the skill to not let Mind Control swing games they fall off drastically.

Northshire Cleric needs to be changed to a 1/2, draw effect limited to once per turn.

Mind Control should be changed to 7 mana and epic rarity.

Lightspawn is an important part of keeping priests competitive, isn't included in the base set and is extremely vulnerable to silence. One of the best balanced cards in the game.

Thoughtsteal/Mind Vision need to show what cards are copied; not doing so is completely ridiculous.

Rest of the priest set is well balanced.
Edited by Flame on 10/29/2013 12:33 PM PDT
Posts: 174
10/29/2013 12:07 PMPosted by Jogan
It's a beta. We're supposed to give feedback on the game. If we find a particular part of the game to be really not fun then the beta testers should be speaking up about it.


I understand that, but complaining about something that's inherently a part of this type of game is silly. The concept of this game is fairly linear: play minions to chip away at your opponent's health and defeat them, kill your opponent's minions to prevent him/her from doing the same.

Priests are simply really good at doing so. As people have pointed out in other threads, Priests were always like this, Blizzard simply issued slight nerfs to other classes which resulted in everyone gravitating toward Priest.

Control will always exist in card games, it's how these games are played, instead of complaining about it I wish people woud adapt and learn how to combat it. Remember. Priests aren't the only ones capable of controlling the game. Any calss can easily control each game they play because it all comes down to deck construction, skill as a player and knowing your opponent.

Card games are notoriously competitive, just like PvP is in WoW or any other game. complaining about something until they change it is just silly. Offer feedback, yes, but not complain.

I sincerely hope that they don't nerf Priest in any way because I really don't think that it needs it.
Posts: 174
Priests are too strong at lower ranks because of their core cards being in their base set. As you get into higher ranks with everyone having access to their important rares/epics and the skill to not let Mind Control swing games they fall off drastically.

Northshire Cleric needs to be changed to a 1/2, draw effect limited to once per turn.


I think both of these are actually reasonable opinions, though I don't think that Northshire Cleric needs to be changed at all. Wrath, Frostbolt, Weapons etc... all easily kill it.

10/29/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Flame
Lightspawn is an important part of keeping priests competitive, isn't included in the base set and is extremely vulnerable to silence. One of the best balanced cards in the game.


I don't know if I agree with you on this one. Lightspawn is incredibly underwhelming. Yes, if a Priest is able to buff it to kingdom come and attack with it then cool, but at a high cost. At most I'd say Lightspawn's an OTK minion. However. As a regular minion in constructed I'd suggest to simply not use it.

10/29/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Flame
Thoughtsteal/Mind Vision need to show what cards are copied; not doing so is completely ridiculous.


I don't see why. This isn't MTG, meaning you can't react (right away) to your opponent playing things. It might be a good change but I'm not sure if it's entirely needed.
Edited by cyndelaq on 10/29/2013 12:36 PM PDT
Posts: 12
the thing about mind control is its hard removal and give you a huge minion its to many pluses, and like everyone is saying and i agree its just not fun to play against mind vision, thought steal, mind control etc. really just an annoying experience, i don't mind anything else about priest
Posts: 815
10/29/2013 12:29 PMPosted by cyndelaq
I understand that, but complaining about something that's inherently a part of this type of game is silly.


It's not normal that people be able to get to Master 3 with a basic deck. Also aside from having an overpowered basic deck, I just don't think it's fun having my own cards played against me. Even if I win it's not fun. Thought steal, mind vision, mind control all just make me not want to play. That's my opinion and my feedback.

As far as control cards, there's lots of control in the game that doesn't play your own cards against you. Stealing cards does not have to be "inherently a part of this type of game".
Posts: 3
10/29/2013 12:35 PMPosted by cyndelaq
I think both of these are actually reasonable opinions, though I don't think that Northshire Cleric needs to be changed at all. Wrath, Frostbolt, Weapons etc... all easily kill it.


If you don't open with a 3 health removal you have to completely play around the cleric, which can result in you having to just not summon monsters or give the priest multiple draws. I'm not saying it's overpowered, but it has potential to generate too much advantage if you don't draw the right cards.

I don't know if I agree with you on this one. Lightspawn is incredibly underwhelming. Yes, if a Priest is able to buff it to kingdom come and attack with it then cool, but at a high cost. At most I'd say Lightspawn's an OTK minion. However. As a regular minion in constructed I'd suggest to simply not use it.


I can see where you're coming from; we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think for a 4 drop it's great.

It's an amazing response to commonly played 4/4 and 4/5s that are everywhere right now that has the possibility to be an OTK enabler or become big enough to remove a 8+ Legendary drop from the field though. It also baits out silences so you can drop your bigger monsters.

I don't see why. This isn't MTG, meaning you can't react (right away) to your opponent playing things. It might be a good change but I'm not sure if it's entirely needed.


It would be good for the health of the game IMO. Not a drastically needed change, but it will happen eventually.
Posts: 132
SWP - best early game removal
SWD - best mid/late game removal
Mind Control - Most broken spell in the game
Cleric + PWS - New coin scrub.

Priests really have almost no down sides. Fill your deck full of 4 attack minions just to counter Priest, wooh fun! Mind control needs to be REMOVED as an option in Arena it's the most broken spell in the entire game and ruins Arena personally.
Edited by Shandu on 10/29/2013 2:56 PM PDT
Posts: 129
well aggressive warlock deck can deal with them if they have 1mind control
2mind control is too much unless opponent isn't very good player
Edited by Hearthstone on 10/29/2013 3:00 PM PDT
Posts: 46
Northshire Cleric is overpowered, and that's it.
Posts: 3
well.. was winning with my hunter against a priest.. had some powerfull attack minions.. and could finnish him off the next turn..

he heals himself, than he mind controls 2 minions, deals 2 times 5 dammage to my hero and than attacks with my minions.. he wins.. a turnover from 22-8 for me to a 0-13 win to him.. in 1 turn

seems he kept all his spell cards like mind control and hero damage for the end, and since these cards are rediculously cheap, mana-wise, he could wipe me with 5 cards in 1 turn..
Posts: 357
Something that can deal 10 damage to the enemy hero with only a cost of 4 mana is pushing it.

Add in a light spawn with all the health buffs and you've got a tad bit of ridiculousness.

Definitely need adjustments.
Posts: 174
10/29/2013 04:58 PMPosted by Killawar
Something that can deal 10 damage to the enemy hero with only a cost of 4 mana is pushing it.


Your opponent has to play that minion one turn before attacking with it meaning that you have at least one turn to figure out how to take care of that minion, which isn't difficult. Lightspawn is fine the way it is.

10/29/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Cronic
seems he kept all his spell cards like mind control and hero damage for the end, and since these cards are rediculously cheap, mana-wise, he could wipe me with 5 cards in 1 turn..


Any class is capable of doing this, not just the Priest.

10/29/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Qlimax
Northshire Cleric is overpowered, and that's it.


Wrath, Frostbolt, Weapon, minions, etc... All of these things kill the Northshire Cleric very easily. It isn't overpowered in any way. That would be like saying that the Starving Buzzard is overpowered, which it isn't. Yes, they're two different minions, but they both synergise really well with their class.

well aggressive warlock deck can deal with them if they have 1mind control
2mind control is too much unless opponent isn't very good player


Any aggressive deck can do this is played correctly.

10/29/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Shandu
Priests really have almost no down sides. Fill your deck full of 4 attack minions just to counter Priest, wooh fun! Mind control needs to be REMOVED as an option in Arena it's the most broken spell in the entire game and ruins Arena personally.


Priests, like all other classes, has it's weakness. One such weakness is 4 Attack minions. But that isn't the only one. You can rush them down before they get a chance to do anything, you can also not play right into their trap(s). Knowing your enemy is half the battle. Instead of overextending by playing all of your minions and giving your opponent options to MC, hold back. Wait until the right moment to play things. This is called strategy.
Posts: 2
I find your arguments pretty clever, but they don't add up in the end, do they?

We shouldn't have to build our decks to "counter" a certain card or to "counter a certain race.
This is why priest are OP, since we basically NEED to save up on our hard removal only to kill the minion that could be potentially mind controlled. And if we rely only on low minions, what would the use be of high minions? And if we use a bunch of minions with 4 attack, we're most likely gonna have a very unbalanced deck. Priest are currently OP, whether your arguments hold value or not.

Im sorry, but your arguments are still pretty clever.
Posts: 109
well.. was winning with my hunter against a priest.. had some powerfull attack minions.. and could finnish him off the next turn..

he heals himself, than he mind controls 2 minions, deals 2 times 5 dammage to my hero and than attacks with my minions.. he wins.. a turnover from 22-8 for me to a 0-13 win to him.. in 1 turn

seems he kept all his spell cards like mind control and hero damage for the end, and since these cards are rediculously cheap, mana-wise, he could wipe me with 5 cards in 1 turn..


Lying and embellishing are not going to help your cause. Mind Control is an 8 cost card. The priest can cast that once and heal himself and then he's done. Mind Blast is 2 mana per. So unless the priest gets 22 mana then he is most definitely not doing that in one turn. Nevermind that mind controlled minions can't attack on the turn they are summoned.

That being said, what you described could be done in 3 turns or almost done in 2 turns (minus a heal or Mind Blast. Also a Shadow Madness instead of a Mind Control would also work).
Posts: 18
The fact that in the last 10 matches i played, 9 were against priests says all!
Priest is broken atm as rogue was before.
Currently it has the best creature removal ingame in a game based on creature.

Again, comparing HS to MTG and saying its not op there and should be considered here, is a stupid. They are 2 different games with different mechanics. In MTG i can interrupt a spell and can break enchantments... (in mtg destroying a mind control enchantment returns the creature to you). Plus there is more matured game with lot more of variety and a depth (which I'm convinced HS will also achieve after a few expansions). Basically there are a few ways to break control decks while here the options are gimmicky to say the least.

Contrary to what some people say here, not being able is a good thing, for a online card game. This is one of the pillars of the success of HS. Plus secrets work well and can be a good replacement, they just need a bit more depth.
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