Warrior's issue [@about nerf and buff]

Posts: 2
Hello,

I'm playing many class in HoW : Hearthstone, but my favorite is the Warrior.
Warrior allow you to play with weapons, armor, charge and enrage mechanics : it's really cool and fun.

But, the Warrior isn't equal to over classes.

Here is the Warrior :
- When he play with weapons, he can use it to clean the board but he lose health points or armor stacks.
- When he's using an armor based deck, he can create a great amount of extra-life but he can't do damages.
- If you play a charge based deck, the Warrior allow you to clean the board and do some regular damages but your creatures will be insta-killed because of their weakness.
- You can try to have a lot of fun with an enrage deck and do a huge amount of damages at one time but you can't survive until it'll be the good time to hit your opponent.

Now, compared to other classes :

When a Warrior want to control the board, he'll be using 3 things : Weapons, Charge, Spells.

If you choose to clean the board with your Weapons, you'll take damages. If you Charge, you'll lose your creature and if you use your Spells... Well, you'll be using a combo to kill one or two creatures (basically Execute with Cleave or Whirlwind), or you'll use Brawl (which is a legendary card), Mortake Strike (But you'll need to be low life in many cases), or Shield Slam (and you'll need to have your armor stacked).

In fact, for many players and many situations, the only way you have to deal with big creatures are x2 Execute combo or losing many health/creatures.

Others class can do it waaaaaay much better! They have much better spell cards and these won't affect their HP and their board. Look at... The Mage of course, and he can do insane damages to your hero, he can use AoE. We can take the Priest : he'll destroy creatures with 3- Attack Amount, he'll do the same with 5+, he can do 2 damages to all YOUR creatures and heal his little army, he can take the control of your creatures [...]. Now, try with the Thief : he can insta kill many creatures and do many small damages, way much better than you, by the combo mechanics.
And these cards aren't legendary. They won't hurt the player who's using them.

Take the others classes and it's the same thing : Warrior lack of CC but he's not stronger with the unique tools that he can use.

In game, it simply result in a weakness for the Warrior.

The thing is : if you buff the Warrior set, you shouldn't change him into a beast and, due to the relative versatility of its tools, you should do the good choices.

I'll talk about what I think to be good to change.

Brawl is ok since he clean the board and can be used when you haven't got any creatures. The issue is that you probably need to allow the Warrior to use a little more Board Control when he doesn't have that card. Fix the mana cost at 6 and it shouldn't handicap the players who's using it, without making the capacity of Control being insane for the Warrior : 6 mana, because 5 allow you to put a too big creature, or 2, when 6 means that you'll do a smart choice.


Shield Slam is legendary. It cost 1 mana and do 1 damage by each armor point you have and it can be a great amount. The card is ok but, in some cases, you can imagine it better with a mana cost of 2 and the capacity to hit the ennemy character and not only minions.

Cleave should definitely do 3 damages and cost 4 mana like Multi-shot, because 2 isn't what you need to kill something that cause trouble... It's usefull when you don't need it : early game, but you already have tools to deal with early.

Whirlwind should do 2 damages to all. It should be the effect of a dying Abomination, and remember that it can affect your board too, so, that's probably not OP.

Shield Block can be changed for 2 mana cost and 3 armor.


Slam should do 1 damage to be ok.

That'll allow the Warrior to have a good Control of the board and reduce the amount of cards that he can play in a round (a part of his play-style, sure, but it's just not worth-it). He'll be able to draw a little more because he really need that to do his job.
The conclusion is : the Warrior is a very attracting class, it looks funny and powerful but it lack of Control to be. What he can do, other do much better. He have to specialize him in a way but if he do, he'll have severe trouble in an other hand.

Thanks
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Posts: 672
Hello,

I'm playing many class in HoW : Hearthstone, but my favorite is the Warrior.
Warrior allow you to play with weapons, armor, charge and enrage mechanics : it's really cool and fun.

But, the Warrior isn't equal to over classes.

Here is the Warrior :
- When he play with weapons, he can use it to clean the board but he lose health points or armor stacks.
- When he's using an armor based deck, he can create a great amount of extra-life but he can't do damages.
- If you play a charge based deck, the Warrior allow you to clean the board and do some regular damages but your creatures will be insta-killed because of their weakness.
- You can try to have a lot of fun with an enrage deck and do a huge amount of damages at one time but you can't survive until it'll be the good time to hit your opponent.

Now, compared to other classes :

When a Warrior want to control the board, he'll be using 3 things : Weapons, Charge, Spells.

If you choose to clean the board with your Weapons, you'll take damages. If you Charge, you'll lose your creature and if you use your Spells... Well, you'll be using a combo to kill one or two creatures (basically Execute with Cleave or Whirlwind), or you'll use Brawl (which is a legendary card), Mortake Strike (But you'll need to be low life in many cases), or Shield Slam (and you'll need to have your armor stacked).

In fact, for many players and many situations, the only way you have to deal with big creatures are x2 Execute combo or losing many health/creatures.

Others class can do it waaaaaay much better! They have much better spell cards and these won't affect their HP and their board. Look at... The Mage of course, and he can do insane damages to your hero, he can use AoE. We can take the Priest : he'll destroy creatures with 3- Attack Amount, he'll do the same with 5+, he can do 2 damages to all YOUR creatures and heal his little army, he can take the control of your creatures [...]. Now, try with the Thief : he can insta kill many creatures and do many small damages, way much better than you, by the combo mechanics.
And these cards aren't legendary. They won't hurt the player who's using them.

Take the others classes and it's the same thing : Warrior lack of CC but he's not stronger with the unique tools that he can use.

In game, it simply result in a weakness for the Warrior.

The thing is : if you buff the Warrior set, you shouldn't change him into a beast and, due to the relative versatility of its tools, you should do the good choices.

I'll talk about what I think to be good to change.

Brawl is ok since he clean the board and can be used when you haven't got any creatures. The issue is that you probably need to allow the Warrior to use a little more Board Control when he doesn't have that card. Fix the mana cost at 6 and it shouldn't handicap the players who's using it, without making the capacity of Control being insane for the Warrior : 6 mana, because 5 allow you to put a too big creature, or 2, when 6 means that you'll do a smart choice.


Shield Slam is legendary. It cost 1 mana and do 1 damage by each armor point you have and it can be a great amount. The card is ok but, in some cases, you can imagine it better with a mana cost of 2 and the capacity to hit the ennemy character and not only minions.

Cleave should definitely do 3 damages and cost 4 mana like Multi-shot, because 2 isn't what you need to kill something that cause trouble... It's usefull when you don't need it : early game, but you already have tools to deal with early.

Whirlwind should do 2 damages to all. It should be the effect of a dying Abomination, and remember that it can affect your board too, so, that's probably not OP.

Shield Block can be changed for 2 mana cost and 3 armor.


Slam should do 1 damage to be ok.

That'll allow the Warrior to have a good Control of the board and reduce the amount of cards that he can play in a round (a part of his play-style, sure, but it's just not worth-it). He'll be able to draw a little more because he really need that to do his job.
The conclusion is : the Warrior is a very attracting class, it looks funny and powerful but it lack of Control to be. What he can do, other do much better. He have to specialize him in a way but if he do, he'll have severe trouble in an other hand.

Thanks


Your changes would nerf warrior big time.

Warriors are very dependant on their spells being cheap so a cleave at 4 would be terrible, also having spells be equal is poor design, multishot is hunters spells so warriors will have something different not 3/3 for 4.

Whirlwind doing 2 damage is a HUGE nerf to warrior, the spell is not designed to kill stuff, it is ment to activate enrages and warriors "when damaged" spells and abilities, its purpose is often to damage your own minions not the enemies, and having it kill your own stuff is terrible.

Shield block at 2mana for 3 would not help you survive much while 5+ does as that is what many spells deal, the card also combos with shield slam so reducing the armor it provides is overall a bad thing.

Slam at 1 damage would turn it into more of an enrage ability while I find myself needing it far more for clearing out the opponents minions, which it does very well at 2.

A slam+fiery war axe kill 5hp creatures like yeti and shieldmasta, or slam+whirlwind/inner rage/taskmaster kills 3 hp minions, or slam+cleave to kill 4 hp.

At 2 damage it can combo with so many things to kill off minions.

Warriors are quite strong currently, infact my strongest deck is warrior as of right now, a warrior can afford to use several cards to kill minions because they have arguably the best card draw in the game, only warlock is a contender due to their hero power.
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Posts: 2
They have strong card draw, yep, but they have 2 cards for that.
And 1 is about minions who've lose some health and it's difficult to stay alive if you're a minions with 1-2 HP because of little AoE and little minions damages from the opponent board.

Warrior really lack of Control.
Priest and Warlock are way too powerful with best draw cards :)
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Posts: 61
Warriors card draw is situation tho.

Warriors create card advantage similar to warlocks in they take damage usually to do it but its less card advantage for you and more card disadvantage for your opponent. Because if you can use a weapon to kill 2 things you just 2 for 1 them at the cost of health.

Honestly the problem I have with warriors ATM is their cards are not cost effective enough. Or are just not as good as they need to be. Things like Mortal Strike are just a junk card because at 4 mana it needs to hit harder than 4. (its a fireball if your low but honestly it should cost 3)

Shield Slam needs to be able to target players. This card is a finisher its the card that fills the same role as pyroblast for mages, The card you want to top deck later when you have a few stacks of armor up and need that card to close out the game. Even then the card is SO conditional that most of the time it only hits for 2. (it doesnt dig you out of a losing board state)
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Posts: 672
Warriors card draw is situation tho.

Warriors create card advantage similar to warlocks in they take damage usually to do it but its less card advantage for you and more card disadvantage for your opponent. Because if you can use a weapon to kill 2 things you just 2 for 1 them at the cost of health.

Honestly the problem I have with warriors ATM is their cards are not cost effective enough. Or are just not as good as they need to be. Things like Mortal Strike are just a junk card because at 4 mana it needs to hit harder than 4. (its a fireball if your low but honestly it should cost 3)

Shield Slam needs to be able to target players. This card is a finisher its the card that fills the same role as pyroblast for mages, The card you want to top deck later when you have a few stacks of armor up and need that card to close out the game. Even then the card is SO conditional that most of the time it only hits for 2. (it doesnt dig you out of a losing board state)


Mortal strike and shield slam is pretty much the only two cards I feel need a serious look at right now, mortal strike being straight out poor design, 4 cost for best case a fireball, I have no idea why they have made it like that.

Eviscerate is 2 for 2/4 even, I just can't grasp my head around why mortal strike is like it is.

Warriors ability to straightout draw cards is far better than most classes, and only class that might compete is warlock, it is not uncommon for me to be drawing my last card when my opponent has 15 cards left in their deck.

Their card draw is rather versatile than situational, to find a target to slam for 2 and then finish with cleave/weapon/whirlwind is not hard, to whirlwind an acolyte is straightforward as well, and most good cards for a warrior deck are low cost making it very likely you can whirlwind at least 2 minions for a total of 3 cards with battle rage and even just 2 cards with battle rage is still better than arcane intellect at 3 cost for 2.

And shield block is of course just a straighout draw.
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Posts: 35
Honestly I'm find card drawing to be very difficult with a warrior. Maybe my draws just suck to begin with, however when I face a pally that can do three damage and draw a card then use cheap costing spells to +4/+4 their minions then throw a Shield on them and still have mana to summon minions overwhelms me. Haven't fought one with my better cards (not paying money so its taking time to get cards and dust that I need for my enrage deck). The issue comes down to the fact that unless you get a "combo" draw and you can play those cards you will be trash. Other classes can combo much easier like a priest, pally, mage, or even locks.
The only class I completely trash are hunters where I have 25+ health at the end of a match.
I am new, only my third day playing, but its no fun playing against class that can cover the board, buff with no to little drawbacks (or heal), and can damage my minions without taking damage.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy the class, but small tweaks would be nice.
Regardless I will play this class (as Its my main class in WoW).
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Posts: 3,309
11/01/2013 08:29 PMPosted by warrior9758
Regardless I will play this class (as Its my main class in WoW).


That is, frankly, your mistake. Don't stick with just one class. Play several. This is not the kind of game that works well when you limit yourself like that. Among other things, you will devastate your ability to play Arena or complete daily quests.

If Warrior is not working for you - and Warriors seem to me to be pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of difficulty building a good deck - then try something else. The Mage and Priest make extremely strong decks from just basic cards. Paladin does pretty well too. After you've earned some gold and finished some daily quests, entered some Arenas and won some more cards, you can come back and build a Warrior deck with a few strong rares and a bunch of good commons that work well together, and not find the class quite so frustrating to play.
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Posts: 476
Warrior, as it stands, is not a straightforward class. If you want something that just throws down spells because they hit hard, Mages and Druids do that pretty well. If you want to play this class successfully, you need to look at cards outside of a vacuum. The only card you listed that has a problem is Mortal Strike, which is universally agreed to just be terrible math implemented onto a gimmick card.

Use your weapons to aggressively clear the board, play patiently, save your hand, and force out their removal on legitimate threats without committing to them. Armor Up! is one of the best hero powers in HS atm because of how amazingly well it synergizes with what Warrior needs to do, which is to use your HP as an offensive resource. If you can keep their board clear while protecting your draw engines, watch their hand size and cards still in deck, count the removal they've used. When the opportunity arises, swing out a big combo and chunk down 10~25 HP at a time.

Strange as it is, Warrior is a control class in HS. You need to measure your aggression with tiny spoons until the moment is right, and then go for the throat when you can maximize the impact.
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Posts: 50
Lol no. Warriors are fine. That whole trade off thing you mentioned is called balance.
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