How core is bloodmage thalnos?

Posts: 737
I notice this guy is in a lot of the higher rated decks, and I'm sitting at 2150 dust wanting to craft a solid rogue deck. I really don't want to craft this guy, but I'm debating between him, Van Cleef, or neither? What do ya'll think? Can I just stick a kobold in his spot lol.
Edited by Anbokr on 11/6/2013 4:21 PM PST
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Posts: 97
She is really good when you turn your removal on against bigger creatures. The deathrattle is amazing.

She was the first legendary I saved up for and she goes in soooo many decks. Totally worth it!
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Posts: 737
She is really good when you turn your removal on against bigger creatures. The deathrattle is amazing.

She was the first legendary I saved up for and she goes in soooo many decks. Totally worth it!


Yeah I know, I just really don't want to craft him :/. I know he's probably the best legendary with ysera, but I'm itchin to craft Van Cleef.
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Posts: 830
I would say that Thalnos isn't really 'necessary' for any deck - though he is extremely efficient and is a bonus for most competitive decks, even though they would function without him.

Personally, I think as a rogue VanCleef is better than Thalnos - but if you're playing multiple classes you should get Thalnos first since he's useful in almost every deck, as opposed to just rogue. Thalnos is great, but VanCleef is frequently a 6/6 for 3 mana, which is even better (as long as you play cards you normally would've played before playing VanCleef, not just playing cards for the sake of playing them).
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Posts: 5,615
Van cleef is much more useful if you are running rogue main deck.Thalnos is more like a + for most deck but not quite necessary as Kithros said.
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Posts: 238
Both are good cards, but neither are gamebreaking legendaries like the bigger ones. I don't have Bloodmage, but I'm a bit underwhelmed by VanCleef.

I'd say go for VanCleef if you have the rest of your deck, but in my opinion you'll be better served by crafting all your rares if you don't have them yet.
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Posts: 186
I wouldn't call Cleef nor Thalnos "core" they're more like "bonuses." Core Rogue cards are efficient minion removal spells. Neither Cleef nor Thalnos fit that description, however, Thalnos increases the effectiveness of Rogue removal cards and replaces itself on death (Deathrattle: Draw a card), while Cleef is just a cheap Bomb.

-Edited for clarity
Edited by Cyxe on 11/9/2013 4:43 AM PST
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Posts: 42
Some can explain me how, or i'd say "Thalnos increases the effectiveness of Rogue removal"

Remove what? As I see, the most important stat in Thalnos is +1 Spell DMG, with 2 mana cost. I don't see it as a core in every deck, how's that possible, maybe I'm thinking inside the box.
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Posts: 68
He's definitely not a core card (like... you dont need him to make your deck viable). He's just like super cost efficient and meshs really well with most rogue decks.
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Posts: 186
Some can explain me how, or i'd say "Thalnos increases the effectiveness of Rogue removal"

Remove what? As I see, the most important stat in Thalnos is +1 Spell DMG, with 2 mana cost. I don't see it as a core in every deck, how's that possible, maybe I'm thinking inside the box.


"Removal" is a term for dispatching minions. Rogue direct damage cards like Backstab, Shiv, Fan of Knives, Blade Flurry, and Eviscerate are very useful for removing minions. SP increases their power, enabling us to take out minions we otherwise would not be able to handle without Assassinate. For example, normally you couldn't destroy a 3/3 with Backstab, but a +1 SP minion makes that happen, thereby adding several minions to the list that Backstab is capable of destroying. SP makes Shiv, Blade Flurry, and Eviscerate much more useful (and in my book, "core") than Assassinate since they can all deal their damage to the enemy hero.

In conclusion, these two cards: Bloodmage Thalnos and Azure Drake are by far the most useful to any Rogue deck because even if you're not playing a SP deck, you ought to have at least a few of those damage cards for cheap removal and having 2 cards that cycle (allow you to draw a card) and boost the effects of your removal are invaluable to any Rogue deck. You're getting many benefits for no extra mana and even if you don't draw a damage spell it's still a minion on the board that your opponent must deal with.
Edited by Cyxe on 11/9/2013 4:38 AM PST
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Posts: 42
Some can explain me how, or i'd say "Thalnos increases the effectiveness of Rogue removal"

Remove what? As I see, the most important stat in Thalnos is +1 Spell DMG, with 2 mana cost. I don't see it as a core in every deck, how's that possible, maybe I'm thinking inside the box.


"Removal" is a term for dispatching minions. Rogue direct damage cards like Backstab, Shiv, Fan of Knives, Blade Flurry, and Eviscerate are very useful for removing minions. SP increases their power, enabling us to take out minions we otherwise would not be able to handle without Assassinate. For example, normally you couldn't destroy a 3/3 with Backstab, but a +1 SP minion makes that happen, thereby adding several minions to the list that Backstab is capable of destroying. SP makes Shiv, Blade Flurry, and Eviscerate much more useful (and in my book, "core") than Assassinate since they can all deal their damage to the enemy hero.

In conclusion, these two cards: Bloodmage Thalnos and Azure Drake are by far the most useful to any Rogue deck because even if you're not playing a SP deck, you ought to have at least a few of those damage cards for cheap removal and having 2 cards that cycle (allow you to draw a card) and boost the effects of your removal are invaluable to any Rogue deck. You're getting many benefits for no extra mana and even if you don't draw a damage spell it's still a minion on the board that your opponent must deal with.


Thank you very much, sir. Very well explained, today I learnt something.
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Posts: 186
Glad to be of help to someone :) Also edited my first post, I believe I was extremely tired when I initially wrote it and was overly brief and did not take into account that not everyone has had enough Rogue experience to understand such vague terminology.
Edited by Cyxe on 11/10/2013 1:29 AM PST
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Posts: 6,102
11/08/2013 03:23 AMPosted by Cyxe
while Cleef is just a cheap Bomb.


*coughs* Cleef is one of the most expensive bombs that require setup just to get removed next turn.

OT: Thalnos is way better than Cleef, even if you're going to main Rogue (also because Thalnos can be used in ANY deck, while the crap Cleef can only be in Rogue decks)
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Posts: 186
11/10/2013 11:52 PMPosted by Polarthief
*coughs* Cleef is one of the most expensive bombs that require setup just to get removed next turn.


So, the 3, 0-2 cost spells you played to pump your Cleef just... fizzle? Like they never happened? No, you got benefits from pumping your Cleef and he's still 3 mana to play. His low base cost gives him versatility since you can play him early and force your opponent to waste a removal card or play him late when your opponent has run out of removal. All bombs suffer the same weakness, removal, so that was not worth mentioning. He was asking how necessary Thalnos is, not which card was better. In a perfect world we'd have access to both and I'd probably run both if I had them. Troll post.
Edited by Cyxe on 11/12/2013 1:33 PM PST
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Posts: 333
Neither of the Legendaries is necessary for any deck,I mean take Ysera or Rag for example,they're strong cards,but you never depend on them to win.
Edited by PainKiller on 11/12/2013 2:33 PM PST
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Posts: 287
Thalnos is an auto-include in any rogue deck, I would definitely consider him core at this point.

In the last 2 managrind tournament weekends, rogue took 5 out of 12 top three spots (both NA and EU), guess which card every single one of these rogue decks had?
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Posts: 3,457
I concur with Icar, first and only Legendary I have crafted so far and he is in all my decks be it competative or fun.

Cheers,
CC-

EDIT: Speaking about Bloodmage here if you havn't guessed yet...
Edited by CaptainCarl on 11/14/2013 1:05 PM PST
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Posts: 73
good gracious, don't craft legendaries. Thats like 8 pairs of rares or two pairs of epics.
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Posts: 2
11/17/2013 02:00 PMPosted by Cake
good gracious, don't craft legendaries. Thats like 8 pairs of rares or two pairs of epics.


Except when you've got all the rares/epics you want and don't want to rely on random pulls from a fairly large pool of ultra rare cards. You'd have to spend hundreds of dollars worth of boosters to hope to pull the handful of good legendaries there are in the game. I'd rather drop 40 bucks and disenchant the majority of it to guarantee I will get two legendaries of my choice.
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Posts: 290
Thalnos is the most versatile legendary in the game. He cycles and combos for every deck out there. An absolute must craft legendary imo.
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