Why I think UtH is fine at higher level play

Posts: 14
I know there are a lot of people who hate hunter, I understand why. If you aren't experienced or know what to do early or middle game, then more likely than not, you will be crushed on turn 6/7 and higher.

As a master hunter player, I think a UtH deck is actually quite fair at higher competitive play.

It is the only viable way for hunters to play right now, nerfing it will nerf the entire class. I honestly think without UtH, there arent much options for us

The deck cruises through platinum and diamond, but once you hit diamond 3 and up, it gets a bit harder to play the deck. When I hit masters, I saw my winning rate go way down dramatically.

People forget that everyone knows most hunters run some form of uth or another. If they see a hunter stock piling cards in their hands, it is obvious what they're running. Most good players I have lost against, either rush me down too hard before turn 6 or 7.

Other good players save their strong taunts for turns 6-7 because they can assume what I am doing.

Any decks without taunts and are really aggressive (such as murloc) just rush me down quickly.

Players of UtH know that the deck can be quite high risk and high reward in higher level play of masters, it is risky to attempt to survive until 7 or 8 or higher in certain games where they can punish you quite severely before then.

Also people who complain about UtH and how op it is, here is a question for you In the most recent big tournaments, this means MLG Open and other big tournaments with big name players, how often do you see UtH decks at the top? Rarely now. Why? Because most competitive players know how to play against it or how to defend against it.

Anyways I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and ideas as well. [b]Please no raging and contribute something meaningful or thought provoking in response, all trolls and those who haven't taken the time to read my points will be ignored
Edited by Chiyeung on 11/8/2013 10:04 PM PST
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Posts: 14
Here is a great article from managrind : http://www.managrind.com/?p=585

It discusses all the counters of UtH and why its not as over powered as you think. I honestly think all the complaining is from lower level players who don't know how to deal with UtH. The post does a great point of explaining why UtH is such a one trick pony, and its drawbacks.

UtH in my opinion will have a tough time in competitive tournaments overall
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Posts: 159
It is not overpowered since it is not as reliable as other competent builds.

And it will probably be nerfed slightly or something similar, because this game will mostly be balanced based on lower level of play, instead of high level of play. This is because there are a lot more people on the lower level playing this game.

The already mentioned they nerfed the buzzard because from bronze to copper the hunter was doing really good. That's all the evidence required.
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Posts: 1,001
Hey Chiyeung,

Nice read, and I fully agree. The sad thing is, though, the majority of players won't reach masters, and Blizzard will tend to listen to the majority, the people who are probably ranked between copper and gold. When they hear all these complaints from players who lose 1 time to a deck like this, or maybe two losses, they will go here to complain.

Sad thing is, this will keep happening time and time again, card after card. People will just say X card is OP, NERF NERF NERF! And the devs will listen to please the masses, even if the card has no real problems at all. It really is sad, but that's how it seems like it's going to end up being with Hearthstone.

Might be a better idea to post this on the general discussion board, BTW, instead of the Hunter forum. Will get more exposure there by probably 100 fold.
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Posts: 71
11/08/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Chiyeung
I honestly think all the complaining is from lower level players who don't know how to deal with UtH.


>Call a low level player anybody is gonna disagree with him
>Asks for constructive criticism and to not be trolled

lol'd
Edited by Shyntil on 11/9/2013 7:35 AM PST
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Posts: 14
11/09/2013 07:34 AMPosted by Shyntil
I honestly think all the complaining is from lower level players who don't know how to deal with UtH.


>Call a low level player anybody is gonna disagree with him
>Asks for constructive criticism and to not be trolled

lol'd


Evidence from blizzard states that UtH gives the most problems from copper to platinum which is lower level players. I am not calling anyone a low level player if they don't disagree with me, I am stating what I think to be true, that copper-platinum players are the ones who probably have the most problems and are complaining about it because most tournament players and upper masters usually have no problem with UtH.
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Posts: 71
As mage control ,i lose to Hunter 95% of the times and im master 3.
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Posts: 12
11/09/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Chiyeung


>Call a low level player anybody is gonna disagree with him
>Asks for constructive criticism and to not be trolled

lol'd


Evidence from blizzard states that UtH gives the most problems from copper to platinum which is lower level players. I am not calling anyone a low level player if they don't disagree with me, I am stating what I think to be true, that copper-platinum players are the ones who probably have the most problems and are complaining about it because most tournament players and upper masters usually have no problem with UtH.


You say master players, got no problem with uth, yet you are defending it since its the only way you could rush through ranks to master.
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Posts: 14


Evidence from blizzard states that UtH gives the most problems from copper to platinum which is lower level players. I am not calling anyone a low level player if they don't disagree with me, I am stating what I think to be true, that copper-platinum players are the ones who probably have the most problems and are complaining about it because most tournament players and upper masters usually have no problem with UtH.


You say master players, got no problem with uth, yet you are defending it since its the only way you could rush through ranks to master.


No I am quite sure you can rush through masters playing spell burn mage and miracle rogue just as well, as well control priest and other variations that dominate the current meta.
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Posts: 210
The combo is not fun to play against. Simple as that. There isn't much margin for error, and sometimes there isn't anything you can do. Although, if they nerf it hard, I have no idea what hunter's will even play.
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Posts: 53
11/08/2013 10:03 PMPosted by Chiyeung
It is the only viable way for hunters to play right now, nerfing it will nerf the entire class. I honestly think without UtH, there arent much options for us


Actually, this is a large part of the logic behind how Magic: The Gathering decided to ban specific cards from standard play. If a specific card was needed in nearly all decks or decks splashing a certain color (classes) to be competitive or if the large majority of top winning decks that splashed that color used the card, then it was deemed too powerful. It happened to the infamous Black Lotus, Skullclamp, and Jace the Mind Sculptor (just to name a few).

While metas will always exist, they wanted to promote as much creative play as possible and still allow those players to be competitive/taken seriously, rather than to pigeonhole players into a specific method.

If the absence of UtH in a Hunter deck makes the Hunter class too weak to the point that it can't contest with other decks, then it's not only a matter of the individual card but how the entire class is designed as well.
Edited by ZeroSoul on 11/14/2013 10:38 PM PST
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Posts: 530
The problem with UtH isn't that it's too strong necessarily. I just beat uth twice in a row with a paladin. The problem is it's a boring playstyle, that everyone feels obligated to play because it's the fastest way to win. You sit there, hope you get good rng, and then on turn 7 you play a scavanger bird, and drop your 1 mana minions til you draw UtH and windfury birds and wolves etc etc. It's boring for both people. Because there isn't any actually playing going on besides you multishotting on occasion.
Edited by Ominyx on 11/14/2013 11:52 PM PST
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Posts: 265
11/08/2013 10:03 PMPosted by Chiyeung
If you aren't experienced or know what to do early or middle game, then more likely than not, you will be crushed on turn 6/7 and higher.


Yeah, you lost me there with this butts on butts description.

no Uth isnt unstoppable. No it isnt the ONLY deck hunters play (But be honest, 9/10 is a pretty high rate)

Although.......

I can call every single turn in a UtH deck. Every. Single. Turn.

Now what REALLY matters. Isnt my playskill, or even theirs.

What matters is what the great RNG gods decide my hand/draws will be.
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Posts: 73
it always depends on how you make your comb deck. If you play a controlly/combo style that doesn't do much except killing enemy minions the first 6 turns then it might not be so bad on higher levels.

If you play very aggresively to get basically free cards with buzzard while putting on pressure and removing at least SOME taunters with your early and midgame minions and then just toss to combo in to win on turn 7 or 8, then I don't see a lot you can do except playing a large amount of taunters (large= 8+).

I'm assuming the reason it doesn't do that well on tournies MIGHT also be that you get to sideboard in between matches, but you don't want to run a sideboarded version on the ladder, so you basically autolose (lose at around 80-90% unlesss the RNG gods smile upon you) to any good UtH deck that doesn't play too passively in the early and midgame.
I mean, with the creatures you play alone you can remove 2 taunters before turn 8, plus you have two owls and 2 kill commands usually, so anything that doesn't play more than 6 taunters (and has access to them in the first 8 turns) will most likely lose.

Edit: okay just read the managrind aricle: they do discuss a control/combo style of the deck, which is imo the worst variant of them all. Also half the solutions (secrets/aggro/sunfury protectors decks) won't work that well against an aggro version of the UtH theme, because you have enough minions the whole time to pressure (while also drawing cards from the buzzard to help with getting the combo pieces), plus you play two flares anyway that also get rid of secrets (plus, as said earlier, kill commands and owls)
Edited by TheRobin on 11/15/2013 5:36 PM PST
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Posts: 71
When you get higher dia/masters when you see mages and priest all day long and you get controlled so hard you're going to lose easily.
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Posts: 268
If 1 card has so much impact that other decks need to add tons of taunt to stop it, the card is OP.

Changing UtH should be an opportunity for Blizz to take a look at the hunter class itself to ensure it doesn't have to take the card to be viable.
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Posts: 11
UtH is no skill lame noob style of game play. there is nothing to do against it. he just hits steady shots till round 6-7. they IK u with 1 mana minions. uses spells and owls to get thru taunts. no way to beat it. if u can counts to 30 then ur right adept for UtH hunter. gg
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Posts: 825
This is not a unique style of deck. Combo has existed in MTG for a long time, and the ways around them don't exist in HS.

There are really no on-their-turn interactions, no discard, and no sideboards.

That's why UTH isn't fun to play against, there's literally no way to interact with it besides rushing them down before they can win, and some decks really don't have that power. If they were allowed to sideboard in better cards, then in games 2 & 3, they would have a better shot.
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Posts: 519
I love how shamans have to pay 5 for bloodlust, yet this ability gives it damage AND charge for ONE cost, GTFO.
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