pyroblast is a problem

Posts: 59
20 damage + in 2 turns is way too op, literally every mage ive encountered in masters is running this. I can have complete board control and all he has to do is get me below 20 hp and its gg.

since im here nerf mind control ( priest ) too lol
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Posts: 11
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.
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Posts: 49
11/21/2013 02:48 PMPosted by RareTrick
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


Agreed.
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Posts: 401
11/21/2013 02:48 PMPosted by RareTrick
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


Unleash the Hound is broken is well.

the real problem on mage is'nt the pyroblast, it's ice block who allows him to cast two pyroblast without any chance of losing, except maybe hunter with flare
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Posts: 7
11/21/2013 10:21 PMPosted by Serefina
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


Unleash the Hound is broken is well.

the real problem on mage is'nt the pyroblast, it's ice block who allows him to cast two pyroblast without any chance of losing, except maybe hunter with flare


This just happened to me 2 min ago. She Pyroblasted me, but I had her beat, ICE BLOCK, then next turn, PYRO#2. Granted I had less than 20hps but that is 2/3 the game life! Geez.

I don't mean to fly off handles or state THIS IS BROKEN!!! But...if I expended the effort to google "nerf pyroblast" and found multiple threads on the subject...there may be a problem.
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Posts: 169
You atleast have a chance of stopping a hunters UTH's by having some taunts on the field, whereas there is no possible way to stop a mage from pyro/fireballing/frostbolting you to death while they freez your minions for 5 turns in a row.
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Posts: 208
Pyro is fine, if someone runs with two, they have a high chance of having a useless card until turn 8 and even then, it takes up their ENTIRE TURN to use it, which at that point of the match could screw the mage over.
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Posts: 277
11/21/2013 02:48 PMPosted by RareTrick
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


It's different in that at least you can have taunt minions to protect you with Unleash and Bloodlust
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Posts: 12
Killing them before they get 2 consecutive turns at 10 mana is an effective counter.
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Posts: 276
11/21/2013 02:48 PMPosted by RareTrick
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


or prophet velen + double mind blast for 20 damage.
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Posts: 898
11/21/2013 02:48 PMPosted by RareTrick
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.
Just because else is broken doesn't make this Ok.
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Posts: 43
11/24/2013 05:07 AMPosted by IAMCRAIG
Pyro is fine, if someone runs with two, they have a high chance of having a useless card until turn 8 and even then, it takes up their ENTIRE TURN to use it, which at that point of the match could screw the mage over.


No one actually cares about the "turn 8" argument. A mage will always be able to stall until late in the game, where you are just bound to drop into kill range. Then, a Pyro + Frostbolt can hit for 13 health, with one spell damage minion, 15, AKA half of your total hp.

The problem with Pyro is precisely the same as Unleash the Hounds: Lack of counterplay. The only way to avoid it, is by playing a counterspell or running some of those weak healing minions most decks will not be able to fit into their roster (or don't want to).
And please don't bring this "just kill him before turn 8" argument. It's seriously dumb and doesn't work in an actual game most of the time.

Since Blizzard already stated that they wanted to get rid of the current UTH, I certainly hope that they also take a look into Pyroblast. It needs a major rework, not even a retuning, since it is a prime example of a badly designed card.
Edited by Hatter on 11/24/2013 2:49 PM PST
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Posts: 68
Don't see how this any different than retarded Unleash the Hound/Bloodlust combos from Hunter/Shaman.


Agreed.


Well, if you don't see how it is different, then I would point out you aren't too savvy in card evaluation.

Blood lust is a win more card. You already have to have established board control in order to get value from it. It is a card that helps you win more after already being dominant.

If you have zero minions or are losing, blood lust does nothing. If you have a shaman's board cleared, you have the ability to counterplay or know exactly that there is zero chance of being susceptible to a blood lust burst.

Pyroblast has no such prerequisite in order to be used. You cast straight from your hand onto the HP of the enemy hero. You completely ignore board landscape. There is no counterplay to it. You never know when its coming, nor can you stop it.

You see it now?
Edited by Zzod on 11/26/2013 2:31 AM PST
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Posts: 68
11/24/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Rathskellar
Killing them before they get 2 consecutive turns at 10 mana is an effective counter.


Which is quite easy through frost novas, cone of colds, blizzards, frost bolts, fireballs, polymorphs, flamestrikes, and their own minions. EZ.
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Posts: 156
People hate what beats them. Complaining doesn't make it OP. I personally hate argent commander, and the fact that I can't use weapons while other classes can lol... it's like an additional hero power. Consider Pyroblast vs. Arcanite Reaper for example. Both are 10 damage. Reaper is cheaper and can be used to kill multiple creatures. Neither is broken. The trick to beating pyroblast is to tune your deck to either a) gain life to survive rush decks (because if pyroblast is beating you, then so are rogues, warlocks, and paladins) or b). out-aggro them.
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Posts: 43
"The trick to beating pyroblast is to tune your deck to either a) gain life to survive rush decks (because if pyroblast is beating you, then so are rogues, warlocks, and paladins) or b). out-aggro them."

a) Is an unviable strategy, since most healing minions are bad, most healing spells are bad and only a select few can run heals effectively (priest & pally, mostly).

b) Out-aggro a control mage deck? Really? That is your advice?

Also, the Arcanite Reaper comparison is wrong. Reaper's counter is taunt (especially high damaging or low value/token taunts), while Pyroblast has what counters again?

Really, I find it hard to believe that some people cannot wrap their heads around the fact that one singular spell - that can nuke you for 1/3 of your total HP - is bad card design.
It's meant to be abused and whole decks have been built just around this one card. That alone should tell you that it is too powerful.

It's extremely potent, has no counterplay and is just not very fun to face.
So just get rid of it and give Mages something more meaningful.
Edited by Hatter on 11/26/2013 11:28 AM PST
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Posts: 31

Also, the Arcanite Reaper comparison is wrong. Reaper's counter is taunt (especially high damaging or low value/token taunts), while Pyroblast has what counters again?


There's even Acidic Swamp Ooze. And it's potentially 2/3 of your total HP if they're able to draw both cards. :/
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Posts: 276
mind blast buffed by prophet velen has no such prerequisite in order to be used. You cast straight from your hand onto the HP of the enemy hero. You completely ignore board landscape. There is no counterplay to it. You never know when its coming, nor can you stop it.


fixed it for ya.
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Posts: 68
11/26/2013 04:57 PMPosted by Rogoth01
mind blast buffed by prophet velen has no such prerequisite in order to be used. You cast straight from your hand onto the HP of the enemy hero. You completely ignore board landscape. There is no counterplay to it. You never know when its coming, nor can you stop it.


fixed it for ya.


"Buffed by prophet velen" is a prerequisite. And a HUGE one at that. GG.

I could go on and talk about all the other factors that come into play if you want to actually be realistic in evaluating this comparison such as mage's ability to stall out games with chain freezes that priest can't do.

Or I can talk about how keeping a 7/7 legendary mob for multiple turns out unchecked while you pull multiple mind blasts (a !@#$ty card to begin with) is realistic.

Or I can talk about how mind blast with Velen does 10, but without does 5. Whereas, pyroblast without any modification still does a base of 10.

But, I won't.

Terrible comparison and defense of your card.
Edited by Zzod on 11/26/2013 5:54 PM PST
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Posts: 1,606
OP has little to no experience playing hearthstone. There are countless ways that ANY class can do 20+ damage turns 8 and 9 for less than the 16 mana than double pyro.

By working toward board control and using buffing minions. Any class in the game can do 20 damage by playing a combination of NEUTRAL minions. The hate that PYRO gets comes from people who haven't built decks to cater to their class strengths and negate enemy strengths.

1. Mages typically struggle with board control. Mage spells are expensive and leave little room for combos with other spells or minions. In addition spells weakness is that you only get to benefit from them once. For example playing a Pyroblast costs 8 damage and nets me 10 damage while playing Ragnaros costs 8 damage and nets me at least 8 damage and a forced removal or even more damage.
2. But what about MAGE AOE, THATS BOARD CONTROL! You say. Well your job as a hearthstone player is to build a balanced deck of spells and minions. When you play a mage they typically can't clear the board until turn 5. And again the cost is high enough that you can regain board control next turn. Before turn 5 you should be getting 3-4 low cost minions in play if you can and doing as much damage as possible, if you dont see any aoe on turn 5 play spells and on turn 6 play a minion with 5 or more health while keeping the mage side of the board clear. Congratulations, you have probably won the game. Now the mage needs to have 2 pyros in his hand to even have a chance at winning.

3. Taunting cards own mages who run double pyro especially the shield masta. Not only does this card make it harder to get you down below 20 hp, but sits in the 5 or more hp range meaning the mage can't simply clear it with a flamestrike with out having a spell minion out.

4. Healing cards of any nature own pyro. If a mage Pyros you, he is committing to killing you with in the next couple of rounds when you heal out of the range to kill you, youve just swung the game your way especially if you healed with a minion.

Having 2 pyros in your deck in no way insures you can pyro back to back turns 8 and 9. Also, mages who do get luck and draw them back to back for turns 8 and 9 also draw them back to back turns 1-6, severely impacting that mage's ability to deal damage in early rounds.
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