Sap a little OP than it should be

Posts: 4
The way sap is atm it does not only have the ability to stun a minion, it also got 2 more effects.

1st: it's returning you card to your hand. Which mean your card is stunned for at least 1-2 turns (depend on if you have a charge card)

2nd: By returning the card to your hand you are forced to pay the mana price for minion again.

3rd: By returning the card to your hand it also removes all buffs on the minion.

The way a sap should work, should only be stunning the minion for a few turns and not drain your mana and remove buffs too. And all this is only for 2 mana.

This is pretty anoying for me as a priest since I now have lots of time lost blockers with life buffs so they had 10-20 hp to this.

This is my opinion and I feel it should be changed to either cost more mana or only stun the minion for 2-3 turns. What is your opinion?
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Posts: 1,208
Sap already costs the rogue 1 card in card advantage. It's fine.
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Posts: 4
11/24/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Ace
Sap already costs the rogue 1 card in card advantage. It's fine.

What do you mean by this?
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Posts: 315
What this means is the 'Sap' is gone after use, whatever card was sapped is still at your disposal, and it means you have card advantage (more cards than the rogue). Your creature didn't die. As a counterpoint, you as a priest, should be happy you have a lots of low cost removal spells that will actually trade cards for about the same cost as Sap. Sap only delays the presence of a card, it's not quite as OP as you think.

Shadow Word cards are OP, low cost cards that trade for cards that cost way more than it (and removes all their buffs too :P), those are the OP card you should hone in on.
Edited by Aza on 11/24/2013 3:06 PM PST
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Posts: 326
nerf sap into :

"return target minion to its owner hand, refund any buff cards used on said minion, aswell as the used mana, even more so refund the time allocated when the guy playing the minion/buffs resulting in longer turn timers for the rest of the game - stack indefinitely and carries on to their next games, after all those give the player a gentle pat on his head since after all those apparently simply just not enough"
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Posts: 4
11/24/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Aza
What this means is the 'Sap' is gone after use, whatever card was sapped is still at your disposal, and it means you have card advantage (more cards than the rogue). Your creature didn't die. As a counterpoint, you as a priest, should be happy you have a lots of low cost removal spells that will actually trade cards for about the same cost as Sap. Sap only delays the presence of a card, it's not quite as OP as you think.

I can see your point in that. But I still feel like it should be a stun ability kinda like freeze that last 2-3 round (maybe more). This way rogues would have the time to kill it or kill the player or something else.

11/24/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Aza
Shadow Word cards are OP, low cost cards that trade for cards that cost way more than it (and removes all their buffs too :P), those are the OP card you should hone in on.

We may have the shadow words cards. But those got 2 major flaws. 1st they are pretty useless in against a low cost minion or high cost minion built. 2nd they have a gray zone at 4, so making a built focusing on minions with 4 attack make em complete useles.
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Posts: 315
I would take either Shadow Word Pain or Death over Sap any day. 2 and 3 mana cost? Removal should require investment and risk for the fact that it can target specific enemies. Priests just get a steal of a deal in mana costs.

Sap is crap and a good Rogue doesn't even use it.
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Posts: 156
Sap isn't op, but it's not a bad card. It can be considered a good card for the same reason that sprint is considered a bad card: tempo/board control is more important than card advantage. Sprint is considered a bad card because you pass up an entire turn on turn 7+ to draw cards, which can be fatal. Sap essentially does the same thing to your opponent if they play a big minion. For example, sapping their turn 6 six drop then playing a 4 drop is a huge tempo swing.
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Posts: 3,099
The way sap is atm it does not only have the ability to stun a minion, it also got 2 more effects.

1st: it's returning you card to your hand. Which mean your card is stunned for at least 1-2 turns (depend on if you have a charge card)

2nd: By returning the card to your hand you are forced to pay the mana price for minion again.

3rd: By returning the card to your hand it also removes all buffs on the minion.

The way a sap should work, should only be stunning the minion for a few turns and not drain your mana and remove buffs too. And all this is only for 2 mana.

This is pretty anoying for me as a priest since I now have lots of time lost blockers with life buffs so they had 10-20 hp to this.

This is my opinion and I feel it should be changed to either cost more mana or only stun the minion for 2-3 turns. What is your opinion?


Or you can not just rely on overbuffing to win.
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Posts: 689
My best moment with sap was the time were i double sapped King Mukla in 2 turns, 6 Bananas, yummy.

Still waiting for a Warlock playing Pit Lord
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Posts: 2,109
11/24/2013 01:17 PMPosted by JackHart
Sap already costs the rogue 1 card in card advantage. It's fine.

What do you mean by this?


Lets say you both have 5 cards in your deck, and you both have 1 minion on board.

your turn comes. You draw 1 card. cards are 6-5, minions are 1-1.
You sap. Cards are 5-6, minions are 1-0.
His turn comes. He draws 1 card, (cards are now 5-7), drop the minion.
cards are 5-6, minions are 1-1, the turns end, you both played 1 turn. You still have 5 cards, he has 6.

Or if he drops a second minion, now you both have 5 cards, he has 2 minions.

So basically, you just give him a 1 card advantage, against having one minion out of the action for 1 or 2 turns.

Plus, often, you also give him a free battlecry ( which is sometime a bad thing for him - say, sapping a succubus or a flame imp - but usually a good one ).

That card is good, but it's nowhere as good as some other removal that cost same mana ( or just a bit more ) to permanently remove the card.
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Posts: 1,161
Sap is generally terrible.
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Posts: 6
12/04/2013 03:37 PMPosted by geeca
Sap is generally terrible.

This is pretty much my opinion on sap. It might be decent if it could affect your own minions, but it can only target enemy minions so its neither versatile or efficient enough to justify using.
Edited by LightEcho on 12/5/2013 7:36 PM PST
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Posts: 7
Sap has it's place in the "miracle rogue" build comboing with Auctioneer for a card draw and to clear the way for your big swing if there is a taunt in the way. The biggest thing that bugs me about Sap is the way its worded and how it actually works in the game. It says owners hand and in the case of something like Mind Control or Mind Control Tech you should be able to bounce the MC'd card back to your hand since you are the "owner" of said card instead it goes to the opponents hand and that just bothers me. I guess its too many years of playing MTG and having certain wording sets in my head and how they should work.
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Posts: 3,735
12/05/2013 09:42 PMPosted by Melkiah
Sap has it's place in the "miracle rogue" build comboing with Auctioneer for a card draw and to clear the way for your big swing if there is a taunt in the way. The biggest thing that bugs me about Sap is the way its worded and how it actually works in the game. It says owners hand and in the case of something like Mind Control or Mind Control Tech you should be able to bounce the MC'd card back to your hand since you are the "owner" of said card instead it goes to the opponents hand and that just bothers me. I guess its too many years of playing MTG and having certain wording sets in my head and how they should work.

Owner, in HS, is whoever has the minion. You're not sapping a card, you're sapping the minion on the battlefield, at which point it turns back into a card and returns to the owner of that minion. It makes perfect sense - there's no controller/owner distinction in HS.
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Posts: 324
If anything, Sap needs a buff to where the minion costs one more to play after being returned to hand (like Freezing Trap).
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Posts: 1,624
I love Sap. I giggle everytime a Warlock plays one of his demons, takes its negative side effect, and then has to do it again after I Sap it.
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Posts: 107
Lol Sap isn't OP even in the slightest. -1 card for removal that isn't even permanent. If Rogues still had something like Adrenaline rush this would be good, but not now.
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Posts: 54
I ran sap when it was in basic deck, but honestly you replace it so freaking fast. Sap is pointless unless you are going for an all-in rush down deck where you want the board to be clear permanently and you can end the game before turn 6.

The priest shadow word cards as was mentioned earlier are the better cards by a country mile. The priest simply has to turtle and heal to beat the rogue using sap. The rogue has to swap his entire deck to consist of only 4 attack minions or play ridiculous amounts of 3 attack minions and hope he has buffs spare by the time the cards get pulled (which are easy with the Northshire cleric anyway)

Overall Sap is pretty terrible. Sending a minion away from the battle for 1 turn is just not worth it for 2 mana and card disadvantage. You might find the odd occasion where Sap is useful. But it will pale in comparison to the times where Sap is useless to you.
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