Why NOTHING is done about mind control?!!

Posts: 18
40 days since last patch.
Countless threads.
1834 gazillion ideas of how to improve mind control.

And yet, NOTHING is being done about it!

Seriously, is it that hard? Changing the cost form 8 to 10 requires just one(!!!) change in the game code. Any other way of dealing with it - fine, just make a minipatch!

Of course I know that this is beta, but 99% of the people will agree that this is one issue that is literally breaking the game - and a blue post actually acknowledges it! So why is nothing being done?!!
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Posts: 59
40 days since last patch.
Countless threads.
1834 gazillion ideas of how to improve mind control.

And yet, NOTHING is being done about it!

Seriously, is it that hard? Changing the cost form 8 to 10 requires just one(!!!) change in the game code. Any other way of dealing with it - fine, just make a minipatch!

Of course I know that this is beta, but 99% of the people will agree that this is one issue that is literally breaking the game - and a blue post actually acknowledges it! So why is nothing being done?!!

The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.
Edited by Morok on 11/27/2013 1:49 PM PST
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Posts: 32

The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.


Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.
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Posts: 60

Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.


Don't play unnecessary guys. Play the guys you do have in the correct order. Keep removal in hand when possible.

If you've got board control with a couple of 3/3s and 4/3s don't drop the Ragnaros in your hand. If the answer to the question "Do I get wrecked if he MCs this guy" is yes, then don't play it unless you're forced into a corner and hoping for the hail Mary.

If you have a Rag and a Boulderfist Ogre, play the Ogre first to bait out the MC. Failing that, don't drop Rag until you've at least got a SW:D/Assassinate/Poly/Hex in hand to deal with it.
Edited by Logia on 11/27/2013 2:15 PM PST
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Posts: 59

The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.


Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.

It's simple. Thou shall not overextend with big, stompy creatures before you force the Priest to use his MCs on unfavourable creatures. Then you can place your big guns and he will scream in despair. Or you can just try to win before he even gets to that 8 mana.

Also, what the guy above said. It's like reverse Flamestrike. With Flamestrike, you try not to place many small creatures before Mage uses them. With MC, you try not to place big stompy ones before Priest uses it. Unless of course it's something like a turn 4 Sea Giant that's going to quickly win you the game, before the Priest can even say "Mind Control".
Edited by Morok on 11/27/2013 2:52 PM PST
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Posts: 78
Counterplaying MC is obviously easier said than done, but it's not AS bad as people make it out to be. The best way to work against it is to make sure that when you're MC'd, it isn't a surprise. If you drop Ysera, get a card, next turn it's suddenly on the opponent's side of the field, and you say to yourself "I never saw that coming," then you've done something wrong.

As soon as you see your opponent is a priest, you should immediately be counting turns until he can MC. It's the priest's game changing trump card--and he will use it. But you have the say on what he uses it on. If you're aware it's there, you can always play around it if you have any decent removal. You drop a 5-6 mana creature, the priest wastes his entire turn MCing it, you drop a 3-4 mana removal, and you've got the initiative again.

Obviously you can't win every game against a priest, much like you can't win every game against any class. Sometimes !@#$ just happens, and you lose. But with a little awareness, you can significantly improve your odds.
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Posts: 189
Stop slow playing priests.
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Posts: 32

Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.


Don't play unnecessary guys. Play the guys you do have in the correct order. Keep removal in hand when possible.

If you've got board control with a couple of 3/3s and 4/3s don't drop the Ragnaros in your hand. If the answer to the question "Do I get wrecked if he MCs this guy" is yes, then don't play it unless you're forced into a corner and hoping for the hail Mary.

If you have a Rag and a Boulderfist Ogre, play the Ogre first to bait out the MC. Failing that, don't drop Rag until you've at least got a SW:D/Assassinate/Poly/Hex in hand to deal with it.


I agree with this completely. And you should be doing this with every character. The problem is when you only have one or two cards left and you are top decking. And you need a taunt character to win... and you have one in your hand. You still loose. You can try to make the priest burn the MC on a smaller creature but almost every priest on the planet is smart enough to save it for a 6/6 with taunt. MC late game cant be countered by anyone but a mage. I don't have a single removal card to counter MC as a pally. Really what matters is the win rates and all the other statistics that only blizzard can see. I hope they are keeping a close eye MC
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- Hearthstone
Posts: 12,327

1834 gazillion ideas of how to improve mind control.


90% of the threads in this forum are inane dribble from people who have no idea what they're talking about. Just as an example, in this Priest forum, there was someone suggesting that Shadow Word Pain should be increased to 5 mana cost and should have a negative penalty.

So point of comparison, Assassinate destroys anything for 5 mana. They are suggesting SWD should cost 5 mana, only work on minions with 5 attack, and should impose some negative penalty on the Priest.

Not to call that particular thread out, but it's one I have on the top of my head. If you read through the forums, most of the suggestions are utterly not thought out. So referencing a gajillion threads talking about something is by no means indication that it's actually broken.
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Posts: 6
Because, as has been said a million times over, pretty much anyone who has any idea about how this game works can play around to avoid MC. Yes, there are times where all can do is play your big creature without any other counter-MC and just hope it doesn't get MC'd. In my experience, that happens less than 40% of the time. If you're the type of player that drops a big creature on turn 7/8, with no rebound card or mechanism in hand or in play (removal, generally), then it's your own damn fault and, to put it bluntly, you're a bad player.
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Posts: 150
"Don't play large creatures"

What if that's all I have in my hand? Because you know, they killed every other creature with shadow word pain, holy smite, holy nova etc etc etc.

Seriously tired of people defending priests. They have 2 x 5+ attack removals and 2 x mind controls (which is basically an instant 2:1)

I have played many a priest, and they know EXACTLY what card they are going to use MC on. You can bait out every other minion you have but as soon as you pulled out that last one your saving, bam MC.
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Posts: 230
So priests have plenty of access to healing, can buff up their weak minions to monstrous minions if allowed, have access to multiple forms of minion removal cards (except for 4 attack minions, seems like that's their only real weakness...), temporary mind control that can remove up to two targeted creatures in one play, has lots of card draw potential, can steal multiple of your cards, still has access to many of the same strong minions other classes have access to, and on top of that, can just snag a minion with a mind control if they so please? And that's ok?

It's not whether they can be countered or not, it's just that it's just not fun to fight against a priest. I've never had a back and forth slog match with a priest. It's always been either dominate them completely, or they dominate you completely. And honestly, my only real beef with it is... Mind Control.

You're not allowed to send out a big creature unless you either have to, or you're ready to counter your own big creature. No other class has this kind of advantage. Where you might fear a Rogue's Assassinate, or a Mage's Pyroblast, neither of those things cause an inherent disadvantage for playing a big card. However, for a priest, if you play a big card, you HAVE to be prepared for it to instantly become a relatively cheap enemy big card permanently. And you won't ALWAYS have the fortune to have a drawn minion removal card in hand. You might have needed to use it to destroy that buffed up Lightspawn, or you might have just been unlucky enough to not draw one at all. Then he plays a big card, and what are you supposed to do? Let him keep it, or try to counter it and risk facing against TWO big cards?
Edited by Hezz on 12/2/2013 2:37 AM PST
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Posts: 4
I can't believe there are people willing to defend mind control in it's current state, it is blatantly too strong. The impact it has in it's current form is such, that in my opinion, it should be removed entirely from the game.

Mind control is only 1-2 cards out of 30, with the many combinations of decks/cards that there are, you can never be sure you'll even make it to turn 8 against a Priest but if you do, you always know what to expect.

Turn 8 turns interesting/close/challenging games into "Oh, they drew Mind Control, GG" there are 9 classes in Hearthstone, am I supposed to construct my decks simply to counter this one card from 1 of the 9 classes? what an utterly ludicrous idea.

People say play around it, this is obvious, but I don't construct decks to play solely against Priests, I don't have control over what cards I draw or when I draw them so this is frequently not possible. In the randomness that is Hearthstone, Mind Control seems to be a constant, you know every priest has it, you know when it's coming but still, it can't be avoided.

It has been my experience that unless you are in an overwhelmingly strong lead in a game, once turn 8 hits you are at a very strong disadvantage, if you make it to turn 8 against a priest and don't have full board control, unless they are extremely unlucky not to have drawn a Mind Control, there is almost no way back in it.

That this one card, just flat out disables certain play styles, deck builds and setting up of plays when in games, it should be removed.

One card to rule them all.
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Posts: 192
11/27/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Morok
The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.


You totally outplay the priest and completely maintain board control the ENTIRE game, because you were smart and used all your 4 attack minions that you have to use cause priests have totally made it where THE ENTIRE META GAME has to be designed around countering the op minion kill cards and cabal shadow priest etc.

You're right everyone that has to hold their big minions in their hand or reserve their own removal when they play them just incase the priest has MC in hand are newbs cause once again THE ENTIRE META has to revolve around one classes card set.

Get a clue dude, yes mc is easy to counter but the fact you got to save your own limited removal for your own cards if you play them is poor design.

Every other class is only limited to 30 cards and 2-4 removal at best. Priests can have over 30 (Mind Vision/Thought Steal) cards get GUARANTEED 2 for 1 or better (MC) and have a LOT of removal compared to every other class ( shadow word, MC, Cabal Shadow priest etc.) is poor design.

Before you say "oh you just need to build your deck to avoid the removal of shadow word and cabal priest" think about what you're saying.

You're basically saying ITS PERFECTLY OK FOR THE ENTIRE META TO BE SHIFTED BY ONE CLASS.
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Posts: 4
Every single priest I played against played Mind Control at the wrong time and I ALWAYS had a counter against it. In fact, it is pretty rare that priests beat me. Mind Control is not as overpower as you might think. If you just buff out one minion, you deserve to have Mind Control used against you.
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Posts: 24
I don't want mind control to be removed, but I think it should have some kind of penalty. Maybe give it charge the turn you play it, then return the card to the previous owner's hand the turn after that, if it survived. This penalty would make them question whether it is worth it or not if it had a powerful Battlecry. This makes mind control way more strategic than just to just take control of a huge minion. I don't see why this wouldn't be a good idea, it is still the beta and this card really needs to be changed or a lot of people are going to complain.
This could make mind control a more balanced card and it isn't bringing it down to complete uselessness either. I think this would be a really good change because it makes mind control a more strategic card. I don't see how this is a bad idea, if it is, please tell me and explain how this wouldn't work.
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Posts: 10
Almost half the games i play in Masters are against priests and making MC 10 mana simply isnt enough...they need to go back to the drawing board
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Posts: 5
The problem with the Priest is the fact that it forces a meta into the game making it dull, repetitive and downright predictable. They are not impossible to defeat but they force others into building solely anti-priests decks or zerg rush metas. There are other classes a lot stronger than the priest with perhaps more powerful spells and minions but not as annoying to play against.

I'm a 3 star Plat trying to reach Diamond and in my case 50-60% of the games I play are vs Priests. I tend to auto-concede most of them just because I got tired of the same boring style of play over and over again. I could go with my UTH Hunter deck but then where's the fun in playing that all the time? I could also become toxic and exploit the Tracking bug to win against them but that feels cheap.

Why should I stick to the meta? I want to have fun playing this game and Priests are the sole reason I'm not enjoying it to the fullest. The concept in itself is great. A control class built around stopping enemy from amassing powerful minions while boosting your own cards. But the way it was designed is poor.

Nerfing MC isn't the answer. The whole priest class needs a reboot.
Edited by Lonaticus on 12/3/2013 5:14 AM PST
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Posts: 316

Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.


Don't play unnecessary guys. Play the guys you do have in the correct order. Keep removal in hand when possible.

If you've got board control with a couple of 3/3s and 4/3s don't drop the Ragnaros in your hand. If the answer to the question "Do I get wrecked if he MCs this guy" is yes, then don't play it unless you're forced into a corner and hoping for the hail Mary.

If you have a Rag and a Boulderfist Ogre, play the Ogre first to bait out the MC. Failing that, don't drop Rag until you've at least got a SW:D/Assassinate/Poly/Hex in hand to deal with it.


LOOL look at this pro :D he got it !!!! wow ure so smart :D u know what ? what u just said is dumbest plain basic knowledge ever and it doesnt help !@#$ against priest ~
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Posts: 6

LOOL look at this pro :D he got it !!!! wow ure so smart :D u know what ? what u just said is dumbest plain basic knowledge ever and it doesnt help !@#$ against priest ~


That is exactly how you should play, he's giving you legit advice and you're being a smartass. Just play more 4 attack creatures. I'm not saying build a complete deck out of creatures with 4 attack, just play them more and try not to sacrifice them uselessly against a priest.

Also, I like how half the people in this thread are complaining "ehrmahgerd dis clas shiftz ze meta".
Protip: Meta is constructed around ALL classes and a single class cannot 'shift' it, since it was already BUILT AROUND IT.
4 attack creatures are amazing for all classes, have some of the best buffs/effects in the game and they are played by pretty much everyone. It's your own fault you don't play them. "But.. But...", you'll say, "I don't have space in my deck for 4 atk creatures" - well, guess what, you probably have a few creatures that would be better off removed and changed into 4 atk creatures.
Also, spells: this game is mainly built around minions for most of the classes. You NEED tons of minions for your decks. If you have too many spells, remove some. Priests are one of the very few classes that can get away with so many spells in their decks because THEY'RE BUILT AROUND REMOVAL. THAT'S ONE OF THEIR BASE MECHANICS. THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM.
I honestly find playing priest and playing AGAINST the priest a lot of fun, since you never know what they'll hit with next.
"But, but... BUT!", you'll go again, "That is not okay, building your deck to counter a specific mechanic" Oh, really? How about every other card game in the world? Heard of milling (mtg - discard top card), played wow mtg? (remember priests, the discard kings in that game?) BOOM, those decks NEEDED to be countered in order to have a chance at winning a tournament. Be it with specific cards or by rushing small minions like a madman until that specific combo came. I have a few decks exactly like that which counter priests like they don't give a !@#$, namely a Bloodlust Shaman, a buff-into-oblivion Druid and a Jaraxxus Warlock.
However, priests have one huge advantage over the other classes, especially for newbies (lower than masters - once you get to masters your w/l ratio will drastically go down and decks tend to be a lot more powerful) - they can build a very powerful deck with only base cards. More powerful than any other deck that can be built with base cards. Mind Control, considering how strong it is, should, indeed, be rare or epic (but nerfing it to 10 mana as well would be a bit too much).

TL;DR: 4atk minions are some of the best in the game - PLAY THEM OR GET REKT BY PRIESTS KTHXBAI.

Oh, and one more thing. Someone suggested make MC silenceable, with the cost of silencing the minions abilities as well. That's an awesome idea.
Edited by Flamebane on 12/5/2013 12:22 AM PST
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