Why NOTHING is done about mind control?!!

Posts: 1
MC can be made more fare, if most of the creatures are immune to it, instead of getting MCed they will die. That should solve the problem.
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Posts: 2,093
40 days since last patch.
Countless threads.
1834 gazillion ideas of how to improve mind control.

And yet, NOTHING is being done about it!

Seriously, is it that hard? Changing the cost form 8 to 10 requires just one(!!!) change in the game code. Any other way of dealing with it - fine, just make a minipatch!

Of course I know that this is beta, but 99% of the people will agree that this is one issue that is literally breaking the game - and a blue post actually acknowledges it! So why is nothing being done?!!

The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.


Except that they said in no uncertain terms that they are nerfing it. As a turn 8 play, it's too strong in constructed and it's positively obscene in arena.
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Posts: 3,869
"Don't play large creatures"

What if that's all I have in my hand? Because you know, they killed every other creature with shadow word pain, holy smite, holy nova etc etc etc.


Then you lose. It turns out that losing games is a common occurrence. In fact, I cannot remember a single game of Hearthstone I have played where somebody didn't lose.

If you play a slow deck against a Priest, you will probably lose. Priests are the kings of the late game. Only Mages have good chances against Priests in the late game, because they don't rely on big minions for the final push. Everybody else should rely on destroying Priests - or at least crippling them - in the early game. And if your draw is too slow, or you overextend, or the Priest just gets a godly draw of all his early control. . . then you lose. Working as intended.
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Posts: 333
If you play a slow deck against a Priest, you will probably lose. Priests are the kings of the late game. Only Mages have good chances against Priests in the late game, because they don't rely on big minions for the final push. Everybody else should rely on destroying Priests - or at least crippling them - in the early game. And if your draw is too slow, or you overextend, or the Priest just gets a godly draw of all his early control. . . then you lose. Working as intended.


So you should specifically design a deck to hastily destroy a priest on the off chance you might fight one? There's 8 other classes you could get matched against aside from priest. Having to build a custom deck to deal with them is poor design. The problem with priests right now is that if you don't kill them as quickly as possible, you're as good as dead. Having to design a deck around a certain class is stupid.
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Posts: 656
It's funny, priests have cards that destroy all your early game/low attack/health cards with ease to so called counter MC.... Force you to play reserved to hinder yourself since you are scared of MC which should be a 10 cost and have a penalty.

Got to love people people arguing that they aren't OP, when you are paired against people randomly, you can't prepare a deck that is good vs every class..

You can do this when it's an arranged 1v1....
Edited by StewartJR on 12/5/2013 10:35 PM PST
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Posts: 710
http://2p.com/3150844_1/Decks-of-Top-4-NA-Players-of-NA-vs-CN-Server-Hearthstone-Championship-by-StellaX.htm

http://2p.com/3137395_1/Decks-of-Top-4-CN-Players-of-NA-vs-CN-Server-Hearthstone-Championship-by-StellaX.htm

From a 128 person NA tournament featuring many high ranked players (and even some Euro players like Ek0p came over to compete in it), and a similar Chinese tournament.

The amount of classes that showed up among the decks of the top 4 people from each tournament (3 decks per player) was:

Mage: 7
Rogue: 5
Warlock: 4
Priest: 2
Shaman: 2
Paladin: 2
Druid: 2

Are we sure Priest is so overpowered and needs the nerfs?
Edited by Ghost on 12/6/2013 2:46 AM PST
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Posts: 201

The swarm of noobs who can't counterplay against MC (even though it's easy enough) shall not force a simple nerf with their puny voices. For simply nerfing MC would not be good for this game and Blizzard understands it well. They are probably seeking far greater and better thought changes to both MC and Priest class in general.


Ok Mr. Smarty Pants. How do you "Counterplay against MC?" I would love to know. And if you tell me I will then believe the rest of your statement. If not then I will first have to agree with the first guy.


It's more about build than play, really. The play only really consists of baiting it out when you have the appropriate counter to the creature you played in your hand.
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Posts: 24
The amount of classes that showed up among the decks of the top 4 people from each tournament (3 decks per player) was:

Mage: 7
Rogue: 5
Warlock: 4
Priest: 2
Shaman: 2
Paladin: 2
Druid: 2

Are we sure Priest is so overpowered and needs the nerfs?


They don't need nerfs, they just need to be completely reworked. The reason people have so much trouble fighting them is not because they are overpowered, its because they are so different from all of the other classes that to dominate priests you have to build a deck that basically revolves around fighting priests.
I do think that mind control is overpowered, but that isn't all of what is making priests hard to fight. For example, to counter mind control you basically have to change most of the big minions in your deck to something smaller and less powerful minions. You also have to have a lot of removal to assure that the priest doesn't get board control because the priest has almost won if they get board control.
I'm not saying you need to do this to defeat a priest, I'm saying this is the only way to effectively defeat priests a lot unless your in a really high rank.
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Posts: 7
I copy what i said somewhere else:
I have another one that could be ok imo: make u be able to get ur card back if u silence it. The priest can still take the advantage of a charge card for one turn at least, or forever if the guy doesnt silence it.

What do u think?
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Posts: 334
I copy what i said somewhere else:
I have another one that could be ok imo: make u be able to get ur card back if u silence it. The priest can still take the advantage of a charge card for one turn at least, or forever if the guy doesnt silence it.

What do u think?


The problem I have with this suggestion is the situations in which Mind Control is the biggest problem is when you don't have many cards at your disposal. And unlike removal cards, silence is used as a Battlecry on minions for most races. So either you'll be not playing your silence minions the entire game, or you'll be hoping you draw them next if you're topdecking, which just builds on the insanity. People have also said the Silence ability is already overused as it is.

The two best ideas I've seen are either to give the minion back to the original owner at the start of the Priest's next turn (so the Priest can use Taunt if the minion has it), or keep it permanent but make Mind Control silence the minion before controlling it, so they just get a basic combat creature and no game-winning abilities (Ragnaros).
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Posts: 6
i think MC in general is a OP card anway, ofc there are ways to play around it, but its still a "turn-the-tide" card. as i prefer to play hunter, both in arena and in ranked games, i almost concede everytime i dont have a hunters mark and a arcane shot in my start deck. without it, its almost a 70% percent loose situation. dont get me wrong, i like the priest class, but at this point, i think priest class is best by far, and hopefully it will be even more balanced upon release.
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Posts: 238
Ok so to the people that say this... how do you beat a priest with Prophet of Velen out? He's healing 4 a pop. They only way is to summon a beefy creature. Priests have zero drawbacks as it stands.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
12/08/2013 01:46 PMPosted by themage78
Ok so to the people that say this... how do you beat a priest with Prophet of Velen out? He's healing 4 a pop. They only way is to summon a beefy creature. Priests have zero drawbacks as it stands.


It's incorrect to say that Priests have no drawbacks, and if you think that, then you haven't played a Priest.

Priests have a very strong ability to maintain board control once they get it, but they're very weak at obtaining board control in the first place.
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Posts: 1
"They're very weak at obtaining board control in the first place"

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. First off lets compare Holy Nova to Concencration both do 2 dmg but Holy Nova heals all minions and hero. Holy Nova costs 1 mana more...
Not to mention all the other removal cards they have. Which removal cards = Obtaining board control.
Priests have too many tools compared to other classes. It's fine that you want to defend priests because perhaps you play them but being non delusional they do need a nerf to insure a better experience for everyone that plays different classes
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
"They're very weak at obtaining board control in the first place"

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. First off lets compare Holy Nova to Concencration both do 2 dmg but Holy Nova heals all minions and hero. Holy Nova costs 1 mana more...


Speaking of dumb, you seem to actually have just proved my point. Holy Nova costs 1 more. It does heal your own minions, but that only matter if you have damaged minions in the first place, which in general only occurs if you're starting from a position of board control. On the other hand, if you have nothing on the board, or if everything on the board was something you played this turn, then the healing aspect of Holy Nova is worthless, and is doing the same thing as Concecration for 1 more mana.

Which, once again, supports 1 point; it's a strong class for maintaining board control, it's a poor class for obtaining board control.
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Posts: 334
[quote]
Which, once again, supports 1 point; it's a strong class for maintaining board control, it's a poor class for obtaining board control.


Actually, I think it's a strong class for ensuring nobody has board control, and then winning with mind control.

Board Control + Mind Control = Bored of Control.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
[quote]
Which, once again, supports 1 point; it's a strong class for maintaining board control, it's a poor class for obtaining board control.


Actually, I think it's a strong class for ensuring nobody has board control, and then winning with mind control.

Board Control + Mind Control = Bored of Control.


You can think that, but you're wrong. Try playing some games as Priest and you'll see. As a Priest, it's often fairly hard to get your momentum going, but once it starts, your hero power can let you trade your minions into the enemy minions 2-3 times before they die, especially once you start getting the health buff trains of Power Word Shield and Temple Enforcer going. So once you get that foothold, it can be very hard to reverse a Priest's board position.

The downside is that Priests don't have minions that are well-suited for grabbing board control, and the neutral minions that are well designed for getting some board presence (such as token generators) don't synnergize well with the Priest hero power. Basically, the Priest hero power requires minions that can take damage without dying to be effective. This requires use of relatively large minions (this doesn't necessarily mean Giants, but things more like Chillwind Yeti for example), but the best way to grab board position is to flood the board with small minions.

As such, this creates the issue that Priests run into. It can be hard for them to grab board control, and they have probably the weakest set of abilities for doing this. But once they get board position, it can be very hard to pry their larger minions off the board without targeted removal.
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Posts: 334
Nobody cares about how Priests are played. They just don't like that a quarter of the cards in the game can't be used if they want to play competitively just because of 1 card from 1 class.
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Posts: 710
12/08/2013 06:40 PMPosted by LastAergerer
Nobody cares about how Priests are played. They just don't like that a quarter of the cards in the game can't be used if they want to play competitively just because of 1 card from 1 class.


If you think Mind Control is why those minions aren't played, I got a surprise for you after Blizzard nerfs it. All those minions will still be bad and still be unplayed. The only difference is that Priest will become so bad that no one ever plays it again and the game will effectively only have 8 classes going forward. Definitely a much more fun and better game with less variety in spells and classes! Good job whiners.
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Posts: 334
Nobody cares about how Priests are played. They just don't like that a quarter of the cards in the game can't be used if they want to play competitively just because of 1 card from 1 class.


If you think Mind Control is why those minions aren't played, I got a surprise for you after Blizzard nerfs it. All those minions will still be bad and still be unplayed. The only difference is that Priest will become so bad that no one ever plays it again and the game will effectively only have 8 classes going forward. Definitely a much more fun and better game with less variety in spells and classes! Good job whiners.


How can they still be unplayed if me and everybody else is playing them?
Edited by LastAergerer on 12/8/2013 7:07 PM PST
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