Mind Control 10 mana nerf - Enough or too much?

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Posts: 237
I thought it was just the right amount of nerf the card needed. So that opponents could use their minions 2 more turns. The 10 mana nerf brings 3 things on the table:

1) The Priest will have a dead card in his hand until 10th turn. So that might scare them away from putting 2 copies of it in the deck.
2) Priest won't be able to do anything else on the turn that MC is casted.
3) The opponent gets to use their fatties for 2 more turns than before, but this becomes invalid once players reach 10 mana.

but these things aside, the spell still provides a 2 for 1 trade. Especially in a topdecking situation (which isn't rare at all). Let's say the opponent draws and plays a Tazdingo, the Priest Mind Controls it and with the heal ability, Tazdingo won't easily die, now the Priest has an unstoppable momentum on his side.

I was talking about constructed but in arena, I'm pretty sure the 10 mana nerf isn't and won't be enough. Since topdecking is much more common than constructed.

Do you think it killed the card?
Do you think it was just the right nerf?
or do you think it isn't enough?
Edited by sabonis on 12/2/2013 12:48 PM PST
Posts: 1,138
It is the perfect cost. It acts exactly like an Assassinate and a Faceless Manipulator now for 10 mana, those 2 cards between them cost 10.

The Priest still has the utility however of having it all in one card though meaning that you could just run one making room for something else... prophet Velan maybe?

No it did not kill the card, it still has a strong effect, if you require the card on turn 8 and can't hold off the storm for 2 more turns you're doing something wrong and need to re assess your game play not blame the card
Edited by TerraTurtle on 12/2/2013 12:50 PM PST
Posts: 609
It would do nothing. I've never been in a situation where I needed to use MC exactly on turn 8 to win. Either I'm already far enough ahead in the game so that MC would just make the game quicker for me to win, or my opponent isn't in a position to kill me until turn 10. It's honestly a stupid nerf because all it will do is make priest even worse than he already is in all competitive play, but most likely will have 0 effect on normal games. The most it would do is probly just make some dumb people think "welp, MC cost 2 more mana, gg priest trash, time to move on to the next most OP class". Then everybody will move on to complaining about some other class.
Posts: 951
If it were up to me, I would make Mind Control draw 2 cards for the opponent, like Naturalize.
That would certainly make me feel better about losing a valuable minion.

OR

If it didn't cross Warlock's Felguard territory, making it destroy 2 of the Priest's mana crystals.

----

Either of these would be while keeping Mind Control at 8 mana, of course.
Posts: 696
It's too much, priest isn't even good with Mind Control at 8 mana.

The card just needs to be changed to epic rarity so it doesn't show up in Silver league play with basic deck vs basic deck players getting frustrated by it. In Masters it is fine just as is.
Posts: 951
It's too much, priest isn't even good with Mind Control at 8 mana.

The card just needs to be changed to epic rarity so it doesn't show up in Silver league play with basic deck vs basic deck players getting frustrated by it. In Masters it is fine just as is.


The weaknesses of Priest's other cards does not excuse the evil that is Mind Control.
That's just reason to buff those other cards, and nerfing Mind Control helps them do that.

Please stop assessing nerfs as if the class is entirely dependent on a single card - That goes of anyone else reading this.
Posts: 92
MC nerf will do nothing to help priests in competitive play. Blizz will certainly need to compensate for this nerf, thus rendering more priest related QQ.
- Hearthstone
Posts: 11,856
We'll have to see. People focus too much on the individual cards rather than the class as a whole. An extremely strong card within an extremely weak class, for example, doesn't really matter much. So, I'll forego judgment on the MC change until we see all the changes that come. That being said, I think at 10 MC it will still be a bit on the overpowered side, but not too bad.
Posts: 696
It's too much, priest isn't even good with Mind Control at 8 mana.

The card just needs to be changed to epic rarity so it doesn't show up in Silver league play with basic deck vs basic deck players getting frustrated by it. In Masters it is fine just as is.


The weaknesses of Priest's other cards does not excuse the evil that is Mind Control.
That's just reason to buff those other cards, and nerfing Mind Control helps them do that.

Please stop assessing nerfs as if the class is entirely dependent on a single card - That goes of anyone else reading this.


Actually the reason I suggest this is because silver league players tend to use lots of allies that are just big bodies with no coming into play effects, no charge, nothing but just a dude. They can't help it that's what the basic cards give them.

Mind Control is extremely effective against big allies that come into play and just sit there for a turn doing nothing. Mind Control is much less effective against cards that are strong because of battlecry effects. You know things like Shattered Sun Cleric, Defender of Argus, Dark Iron Dwarf, Azure Drake. All the best allies in constructed play.

In Masters league people don't play allies that are just big bodies that do nothing else. That's why Mind Control isn't so good in masters but why it dominates basic play. My suggestion is just trying to get the card out of basic play because that is where it is too strong. It's not too strong in masters, in fact, Priest is struggling overall there.
Posts: 237
12/02/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Sar
We'll have to see. People focus too much on the individual cards rather than the class as a whole. An extremely strong card within an extremely weak class, for example, doesn't really matter much. So, I'll forego judgment on the MC change until we see all the changes that come. That being said, I think at 10 MC it will still be a bit on the overpowered side, but not too bad.


that was exactly the story with the Priest before all the Priest changes.

before the patch, MC wasn't really seen as an overpowered card because Priests were terribad and they desperately needed the card.
but now since Priests are ok, MC just seems to be too much to handle by the opponents.

I for one think the Priest needs a rework because the 4 attack sweet spot is just too ridiculous.
Posts: 7
This is a pretty significant nerf on two fronts. I've been keeping track of arena games where I've needed to MC before turn 10, and there are a lot of cases where I simply would have lost the game if I had to wait until then in order to use it. Also, many people specifically play around MC on turn 8, so this nerf will allow them to have stronger minions on turns 7-9, which will lead to more games lost for the priest.
Posts: 3,126
I think the issue people have with mind control is how unfun it is.
Even the flavor text gives validity to this, and Blizzard said it's just not fun.
So, my question is, why are they keeping it in the game?
If that is truly the reason for changing it, well, it's still going to be just as unfun for everyone.

Personally, I don't care about MC at all. The nerf is nice, two more turns to play with fatties, but it's not necessary in my opinion. You can bait out those MCs.

I was playing against quite a few priests on Saturday for whatever reason, Mind Control was used twice on me in one match and I still won. It was used once in another match that I still one. It probably won the game for 2 priests as well, but I was already in a losing position.

The key to winning those games where I was in a good position was to not play fatties. I'm trying to remember what he stole, I think it was my harvest golem. Well I figured he might, since it was the best target and he had only 3 cards in his hand. He stole it, I silenced it and killed it with an argent commander.

Of course, he stole the commander the next turn, I figured he might which is why I used the divine shield. Sure he got 4 damage, but he paid 8 mana for my commander without a shield, so then I dropped my Tirion Fordring. GG
Posts: 412
Oh lets lazily nerf it to 10.

No, its not a good nerf, because its a lazy nerf.

The priest (and the whole game, really) needs mechanical changes. MC is far from the only problem that has negatively affected the game and transformed it into a rushy, aggressive game.
Posts: 2,641
Honestly, I think they should reduce the cost to 6 and then allow mind control to be silenced. It gives more tension to the use of the card, since they could lose the minion right back again. It also makes it a bit more strategic, since stealing a minion like the twilight drake would still be quite powerful, since a silenced drake kinda sucks.
Posts: 175
I am not playing at the top level yet as I just recently got into the Beta but from where I sit MC is bar none the most OP'd card that is easily attainable. As a stats nut I have been tracking my games. Tracking final scores, If I played first or second and the class (opponent) I am against. Sample size is small as I just started tracking on the weekend. My own Priest deck is 11W 1L. My record against other Priests is 6W 7L. Infact the ONLY class I have a losing record against is Priest and I can say with 100% certainty that MC won them the game. I have them dead in their tracks till the magic 8 mana then boom.... There goes my biggest hitter/Best Taunter and I am done. I can also say that MC has saved my azz of several occasions.

I don't think the change is ideal but it will certainly help. Personally I would have kept it at 8 but added some other cost as well. A couple good idea's in this thread already. Give opponent a couple cards or pay by mana crystal loss. Even if we only had use of the creature for a single turn then it dies. Just give the minion charge so it can be used even if it was just summoned. But as it is now is completely and utterly OP'd.
Posts: 237
12/02/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Kryptic
Honestly, I think they should reduce the cost to 6 and then allow mind control to be silenced. It gives more tension to the use of the card, since they could lose the minion right back again. It also makes it a bit more strategic, since stealing a minion like the twilight drake would still be quite powerful, since a silenced drake kinda sucks.


Another nerf could be to keep it at 8 mana and put the minion into the priest's hand.
Edited by sabonis on 12/2/2013 1:27 PM PST
Posts: 1,410
Yes it is. it should stay at 8....to satisfy the complainers maybe give it some sort of overload of 1-2 crystals.
Posts: 175
A 1 or 2 mana overload would do nothing. Unless you mean crystal destruction. Overload is just when you have an additional cost the next turn, correct? How would this help balance MC?
Posts: 113
it isn't enough - 15 manacost
Posts: 1,420
The problem with MC is that it doesn't break. If you can use the minion for one round ok, but you should not be able to keep it for a whole game.

8 or 10 Mana wont make much of a difference, Pyro is 10 too and still decides many games.
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