Mind Control 10 mana nerf - Enough or too much?

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Posts: 473
The issue with the card is that the ability is absurdly OP and the nerf only alters the cost; not the ability.

This card double dips on too many fronts and I'm not really sure what they were thinking when it was designed. First, it is removal that isn't based on dealing damage so the better the creature your opponent plays the better the value. That's OK, plenty of removal cards like that but it isn't just removal.

Getting your opponents creature is absurd card and mana advantage. Your opponent spent at least 1 card and some mana to play that creature and you are spending 1 card to not only remove it but also get it. That's a 2 card advantage but more realistically could be much greater as cards could have been spent to buff the creature and\or your opponent may need to spend cards to remove it. Mana also scales absurdly as the higher cost the creature you control the more efficient it is. Subtract the cost of removal and it is easy see that this card is far and away a mana advantage even at the nerfed cost when used on late-game creatures.

All of that said doesn't even touch upon the board control advantage of -1\+1 being a silly powerful shift. I'd like to know what other cards exist that shift board control to such a degree.

I just don't think the problem with the balance here can be fixed by adjusting the cost. I think the card is very poorly designed and not fun. Discussion about how the class does in competitive play or any level isn't relevant. In a game that is based too much on RNG at the expense of skill I don't think cards that are designed to be this cheesy have a place.
Posts: 2,456
I agree ,there's no change... most of the games I've seen MC come into play is usually around turn 10+ anyways
Posts: 1,165
mind control at 10 is just horrible.

8 was the right number. i dont even play priest, but there are decks that make mind control look like garbage.
- Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852

8 or 10 Mana wont make much of a difference, Pyro is 10 too and still decides many games.

Um.... Pyroblast isn't 10 mana.
Posts: 3
Change the cost is giving you two more turns to play your big minions, but it's going to do nothing once you reach turn 10. Mind Controll'ed minions should be able to return to the owner of the card once the minion leaves the field (Sap, for example) or return to its owner if the minion is silenced. That may add a counter for mind control, without hurting the cost of the card.

By the way, sorry if my English is bad.
- Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
12/02/2013 05:06 PMPosted by Siegkaworu
Change the cost is giving you two more turns to play your big minions, but it's going to do nothing once you reach turn 10.


This isn't accurate either. It's still 2 less mana to follow up with another minion or to heal yourself or the minion your stole with your hero power. I can state unequivocally there are games I would have lost without the ability to do this.
Posts: 2,842
They should have made it cost 11.
Posts: 701
The issue with the card is that the ability is absurdly OP and the nerf only alters the cost; not the ability.

This card double dips on too many fronts and I'm not really sure what they were thinking when it was designed.


What were they thinking? I have an idea, it's just one of the oldest ideas for a card in TCGs.

Mind Control: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=100
Been around since 1993 the first set of M:TG.

Or how about Twist of Faith: http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cardid=1179
Been around since the 4th set of WoWTCG.
Posts: 22
Since Blizz hasn't announced any additional nerfs/buffs recently, I'll take the 10 mana MC nerf over nothing.
Posts: 121
MC is a rubbish ability for 8 points.

I've played hundreds of games as a priest, but the only use for MC is low to medium rank games, where it can be a match winner.

At higher levels, the opponent expects it and saves their best cards to counter it.

I dropped MC and have a much higher win ratio than before. Getting an 8 point card, or even 2 of them before you have 8 crystals can lose you the game.

At 10 crystals, I can't see any priest using this. It would be nice if they changed it, maybe only MC minions at level 4 and below, although this would paper over the priest weakness against level 4 minions.....
Posts: 748
i think it should stay on 8. or get removed/reworked.

after this nerf meta will change like crazy. ysera, rag, tyrion in every deck incoming (non aggro). because only MC threat limits huge legedary use.
the power of argent commander also rises, every 7-8drop gains value.
i hate drastic changes. it's not the cost, it's the delay of 2 turns.
Posts: 3,054
This is already to much. MC should stay at 8 mana and become a silence able effect.
Posts: 4
The issue with the card is that the ability is absurdly OP and the nerf only alters the cost; not the ability.

This card double dips on too many fronts and I'm not really sure what they were thinking when it was designed.


What were they thinking? I have an idea, it's just one of the oldest ideas for a card in TCGs.

Mind Control: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=100
Been around since 1993 the first set of M:TG.

Or how about Twist of Faith: http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cardid=1179
Been around since the 4th set of WoWTCG.


yeah both examples you posted have counter plays though (if you bounce something in mtg it goes back to card owners hand and not its controller or you justn destroy the enchantment/ongoing effect). now i dont think MC is as bad as everyone thinks is it now but it could cause problems if other priest cards are buffed (which is actually needed)
Posts: 1,218
From the games I've played it'll actually do the job. The priest has pretty powerful and significant 2 cost spells (like double health) which saved my !@# a few times after I played mind control. Even a simple heal or summoning an owl to silence could be significant.
Posts: 222
It's too much, priest isn't even good with Mind Control at 8 mana.

The card just needs to be changed to epic rarity so it doesn't show up in Silver league play with basic deck vs basic deck players getting frustrated by it. In Masters it is fine just as is.


This is the exact change they need to make...
Posts: 97
It'll make very little difference in constructed, since most games are decided well before that in the current metagame.

It will make a very large difference in arena. Right now you get 0-2 turns use out of a big guy played at 6-7 mana, and no use out of a 8 mana minion. You'll never play a big minion unless you get at least 1 turn of use out of it before the opponent gets to 8 mana, and even then you have to plan on how to remove it after it gets mind controlled.

After the patch that turn 6-7 Ogre, Giant, Golem etc. will get 2-4 turns of use. You can play a big minion freely until about turn 9 or so, and the priest will have to deal with the big minion using something other than MC.

Right now when you have mana for a big guy, you'll be unable to cast it because of MC (except maybe Venture Co). In practical terms, you never cast those big minions against priests, and they just sit in your hand. After the patch it'll be easy to use them again.
Edited by plankton1245 on 12/3/2013 6:38 AM PST
Posts: 390
I'd be fine with the 8 cost mind control if it was silence-able. But as it is it feels really strong and just not fun. In the current meta whenever I play a priest I just don't play high level creatures out of fear of them being used against me. It feels terrible to have cards in my hand I can't play because of the class match up.
Posts: 7,949
10 mana is both sufficient and not too much. It's sufficient because it prevents the use of PW:S, Inner Fire, Divine Spirit, and the hero power in combination with Mind Control- Mind Control becomes all you can do that turn, so you more or less have to make it count.

It becomes, more or less, the inverse of Brawl- instead of destroying all minions but one at random, you take control of only one minion, but you choose which one.

MC can already be played around and countered at the highest levels of play, so preventing those combos means it still works at low and intermediate levels of play as both removal and a minion for you, while not giving 80% of under-ranked players more than they know how to handle. It still functions situationally at a higher level of play, even at 10 mana cost. I personally would have preferred a different nerf- but this nerf maintains Mind Control as it is, rather than significantly undermining it like making it silenceable (is that a word? Guess it is now.) would.
Posts: 331
I think the issue people have with mind control is how unfun it is.
Even the flavor text gives validity to this, and Blizzard said it's just not fun.
So, my question is, why are they keeping it in the game?
If that is truly the reason for changing it, well, it's still going to be just as unfun for everyone.


I agree completely. And that flavor text makes me think that somebody at Blizzard thought giving people a reason to get angry at the game and complain on the forums makes the game more addicting. That might be true, but it doesn't make it right.


Another nerf could be to keep it at 8 mana and put the minion into the priest's hand.


Hehehe.
Posts: 494
Blizzards issue with MC is that it is ruining the fun of the game. People don't enjoy that kind of loss. Where you are punished for playing your best cards. Like the rest of the players say make it silenceable.

The card needs to be changed to Rare or Epic for Arena purposes. Multiple MC in arena is what makes it too strong. In constructed its not that bad in high end play.

In lower league play it is too good. Making it 10 mana will make players drop it down to 1 (even though we are seeing that now). Priest is a strong deck at lower play but not as competitive with Mage, Warlock, Rogue and Paladin in top tier play in my opinion. Priests loses easily to aggro + 4 atk minions. Not allowing them into late game makes the class much weaker.
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