non-otk hunter deck. ideas and tips.

Posts: 1,368
explosive trap x2
snake trap x2
river crocalisk x2
scavenging hyena x2
starving buzzard x2
eaglehorn bow x2
animal companion x2
deadly shot x1 (added 2nd as of edit #3)
kill command x2
ironfur grizzly x2
hound master x2
explosive shot x2
stranglethorn tiger x2
savannah highmanex2
ragnaros x1
king krush x1
ysera x1 (removed as of edit #3)

that is my deck list. so far (I don't know how to keep track of stats other then by memory which I don't have much time to do), i'd say it has between 60-75% win rate after bout 100 games in masters 1. wondering if there are any tips on how to improve this.

explaining the card decisions:

explosive trap: board clear, can hit stealthed targets and minions like faerie dragon.

snake trap: lots of synergy with cards I have in the deck and can clear or board or even win me a game if played right.

river crocalisk: most 2 costs have 3 atk and 2 hp, so I figure most cards that don't have 3 atk at this time can be traded out nicely and still trades 1 for 1 with a 3 atk minion.

scavenging hyena: synergizes with a lot of the cards like snake trap savannah highmane and snake trap (yes, I have had snake trap synergize with this card in masters 1)

starving buzzard: card draw, need I say more?)

eaglehorn bow: efficient removal especially if it is chained with traps.

animal companion: great minions and mostly reliable. bear, 4/4, taunt (great), pig, 4/2, charge great for suicide or finishing), chimera, 2/4, all other minions gain 1 atk (snake trap, is great with this, all around good, the only, somewhat, useless card if your not in control)

deadly shot: flat out kills something, great for killing minions like ironbark protectors if u can get alone.

kill command: good removal, great removal if a beast is on the field

ironfur grizzly: taunt, simply need something with taunt since animal companion isn't entirely reliable and hound master can't always be used

hound master: mostly a buff card, but can help with tight spots, good turn 10 is highmane with hound master, 8/7 with taunt that becomes 2 2/2 hyenas on death

explosive shot: good removal

stranglethorn tiger: stealth, feel like I need something that can't be killed the turn after its played

savannah highmane: great card for efficient trading, minimum of 2 cards to properly get rid of it and it's death rattle.

ragnaros: great at trading, good bullet magnet, can win games if played right

king krush: same as rag but doesn't trade as well but it is more directed then rag

ysera: dream cards, haven't need this card much, btu I have won games cause of the dream cards I've gotten.

card explanations as to why I am not using (these are only the cards I have, if you want me to explain certain cards,hunter class or neutral, then please put that into a post and I will either think about it and find a way to put it in or give an explanation as to why I do not use the said card):

hunter's mark: not good for trading. unless its used with an aoe spell it doesn't seem too useful to me.

arcane shot: I feel i'd rather have a different card then this. while 2 damage for 1 mana is good I feel there are more useful cards.

flare: in my play testing so far I have not needed the card draw, haven't needed to directly kill stealth, and secrets are normally not a problem (have only lost one game to a secret, and it could've been prevented by attacking in the right order)

tracking: don't need specific card draw and I don't like throwing away cards.

unleash the hounds: don't get me wrong, this card is currently great. it's simply when I made this deck I wanted a deck that wasn't a one turn kill deck. (that means DON'T suggest this card)

timber wolf: I don't feel like I need a easily killed beast that gives other beasts 1 atk

freezing trap: this card is more control then I want in a hunter deck. that and its the first attack so it is unreliable to hit the right target.

misdirection: I love this card and originally had it in the deck, but through play testing found I didn't need this card and was sometimes random in who I wanted it to hit.

snipe: early game most minions don't have 4 hp and insta-kills them, but in late game it won't and will simply make it easier to trade lower cost minions with a higher cost but at a 2 for 1 trade. can also be baited out by playing a weak minion or one with divine shield.

multishot: I simply like explosive shot more, this card isn't targetable like explosive shot and can at most kill 2 minions.

tundra rhino: I feel like this card isn't very good at any kind of trading and more often then not I don't need the charge.

edit #1: spaced out card explanations so it doesn't looked clumped together and unreadable

edit #2: added the "explanation of cards I don't use" section

edit #3: . adjusted deck list.
Edited by ace on 11/29/2013 9:43 PM PST
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Posts: 1,368
bumping in hopes of ideas
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Posts: 5,630
I made master3 3 week ago in about 25 game(2-3 lost if i recall)(hadnt play ranked since wipe only unranked) using hunter without UTH nor even beast.I'm doing fine in master3 atm except vs extreme rush deck like warlock and sometime paladin.

the problem is that beast are actually pretty weak by themselve and you cant spam the board or you will get aoe down easily + the fact hunter doesnt really have much draw power outside of 1 trick pony(buzzard).Using a beast deck without UTH is kinda silly in my opinion and not worth it.Cleric and harvest golem beat 3/3 bear anytime and Animal is soso because its not consistent, argent commander beat savanah(since it trade 2:1 and has charge which help get back control) .Not using 2x deadly is kinda crazy imo its an insane card.

King krush and Ysera are overkill and makes your mana curve worse. Ragnaros and 2x commander is enough(I use that personally).Spellbreaker,Argus,dwarf all beat or have same value as houdmaster except they dont require beast..I personally got rid of Buzzard for engineer and snake trap for fiery dragon aswell as having more early game than you(not using kill command either) because its all rush deck at higher level.

Aside from that your choice of card are pretty correct and similar to mine.
Edited by Asura on 11/29/2013 3:14 PM PST
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Posts: 1,368
@ asura (post #3)

beasts being weak by themselves, I disagree. savannah highmane is a 6/5 for 6 that summons 2 2/2 hyenas on death. even without other cards that use beasts it is a good card alone. animal companion. 4/4 taunt, 4/2 charge, or 2/4 all other minions have +1 atk. I consider that a good card even by itself. cards like starving buzzard and scavenging hyena, I will agree with. those cards are DESIGNED to be weak unless combo'd with. king krush (bit extreme of an example but still valid, despite its probably slightly too high mana cost) is an 8/8 with charge. even without cards that base off beasts some beasts are powerful even by themselves.

you stated that the buzzard is a "one trick pony" and that's how I play him. his trick isn't play a beast get a card, his trick is either play a beast and maintain your handsize or combo with something to get good card draw. I use him in those 2 ways, there are perhaps more ways but none I am currently thinking of.

you also stated a northshire cleric and a harvest golem will beast the 3/3 bear with taunt (ironfur grizzly, and this is somewhat besides the point). harvest golem is a 2/3 and cleric is a 1/3. that means with the bear takes down both the golem and his deathrattle add or takes both the cleric and the original golem which is great trading in this case.

(i'm going to try to address all of your points just to be clear and specific) in your response you said animal companion is inconsistent. while I agree it is random, more often than not (at least for me) I either get exactly what I want or find a way to get what I want done with what I get.

(again another beside the point part) you said argent commander will usually get 2 for 1 trades and has charge so it can be used right away. unless i'm playing a mage savannah will usually get 2 for 1 trades and in some cases (where they can't stop the deathrattle) 3 or 4 for 1 trades. while yes I agree commander is a good card, you cannot say commander is a flat out better card. is it more consistent in trading? yes. is it always? no. there are ups and downs to everything.

I have agree'd with your point on ysera and deadly shot. currently I have removed ysera and put deadly shot into that cards place and so far I seem to be winning slightly more.

king krush might be overkill but I consider it a kill assurance (cause most people don't expect a king krush to the face on turn 8 or 9, especially when they're at 10 or lower hp). that and I have almost no higher cost cards for end game. I believe that even if your playing a rush down deck you need end game as a just in case policy.

would I use spellbreaker, defender of argus, or dark iron dwarf? yes. but in the hunter deck I am making, I simply see no need for them. while, yes, hound master requires a beast for its battlecry, it can be used without the battle cry. but since I have so many beast it makes the battle cry worth it. an example of this is when I have a snake trap triggered. a good idea if the enemy has a minion out that u can't kill with the 3 snakes is hound master and take it out or you can simply turn a 1/1 snake into a 3/3 with taunt while keeping the other 2 snakes (usually) and having a 4/3 safely behind it.

if I wasn't playing hunter I would take novice engineer. 1/2 for 2 and get a card is ridiculously good (almost to the point i'm thinking they are going to nerf it). and while yes, the snakes from snake trap can die to aoe, that is the weakness of faerie dragon too. using snake trap over faerie dragon simply makes it so if they do not have aoe they cannot get rid of all the snakes with one attack. that and it combos well with the buzzard, hyena, hound master, animal companion (especially leokk, 2/1 snakes anyone?), and kill command. without aoe they cannot (normally) get all the snakes down the turn they are played.

you say you do not use kill command but offer nothing in exchange. if you'd like to elaborate please go ahead. debate and strategizing is what this is for.
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I meant shattered cleric.. the 3 drop not the priest card.

My main point was that you went full beast but removed the most powerful card for beast card(UTH) which add charge and +1 attack to all your minion permanent.My suggestion were mostly how I got to Master3 in 25 or so wins from copper without beast.Controlling the board is very important hence why the change I listed such as why certain card are just better than hunter counterpart(commander vs highmane, engineer vs buzzard, cleric/harvest vs animal/bear) because those card are 100% consistent in every game and at higher level play you cant afford inconsistency.

having 2 big legendary can be bad because drawing both early and having more chance to draw either early makes them dead card in your hand and again you want the least amount of inconsistency between game.

as for kill command its a matter of preference its 3 dmg at worst without beast but I went with arcane shot because its cheaper and allow me to kill those pesky 3/2 and the like to gain back board control which is important in early game if I had a beast deck I would be using kill command but I dont find beast deck any good in master3 aside from uth deck which is lame.

Argent command is better because it let you gain back board sometime, can even kill player with charge, kill big minion right away if have to trade another one of your creature/spell ie you dont want ysera to live 2nd turn and silence doesn't affect commander(since you use him to kill stuff 99.9% time) unlike highmane.
Edited by Asura on 11/29/2013 10:00 PM PST
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@asrua (post #5)

i'm sorry if I sound cynical or l am belittling you unintentionally, but, the ENTIRE POINT of this deck was to keep the beast(ish) theme and do it well without uth. I've played a otk deck with it and I find that it will get a nerf of some sort and i'd rather not learn to depend on a card and possibly log in and have it broken to the point it won't work.

I have also played consistent decks ( with the engineer and commander and such) and while yes I do agree being able to do something consistently is nice, sometimes the best way to play the meta is to go against it. since the cards you listed are so good I am figuring that going against it most people don't expect what I am playing. my play style is usually different to the meta (unless its so powerful I can't help but lose without that kind of deck).

you said that your post was more of a "this is how I did it" then "this is how I think you can improve". while yes, both can go hand in hand, I just ask you to consider that not everyone plays like you. back on topic.

having the 2 legendaries in the deck. yes I agree if I draw one, then it is rather dead in the hand. but my deck is listed in order of mana curve. the odds of me drawing a 2 or 3 drop over that is great. you can say the mana curve doesn't matter if I draw it, but in that argument it can be said even if you have one big drop.

in terms of getting control back. that is what my traps and removal are for. the style I go for is my creatures dominate the field. so far I've had no problem with maintaining or getting back control. so having that amount of control allows me to swap out the commander for highmane. like I've said before the only class that can make a highmane a 1 for 1 trade is the mage with polymorph. every other class has to use at least 2 cards to either get rid of the deathrattle and kill it or kill it and its hyenas.

I prefer kill command over arcane shot simply because of things like explosive trap, snake trap, and eaglehorn bow. I feel I need cards to kill bigger guys so that is what kill command is mostly for.

I believe I addressed your points (perhaps I missed one or two). also if you ever wanna test the deck to see how it plays you might be surprised. I don't know tho. the entire point of this thread is to make it better without becoming a boring flow with the river meta deck.

edit: spelling errors and added which post directed too.
Edited by ace on 11/30/2013 9:12 AM PST
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No worries.

My point with UTH was that its a strong card in beast deck even without going for the 1turn combo; 1 attack for all beast permanently and possibly give charge to one of your big creature so you may want to try it but then again i cant really see what you could remove.

Hunter at master and beyond are all UTH i never met a single hunter that wasnt using beast/uth so going neutral is actually going against the flow :) which is why I did that and its fun.Once buzzard and UTH is nerfed , hunter will be below warrior in popularity in Master3.Some of the hunter I face with beast deck however are not just 1 trick pony as their use uth not for 1turn kill but to gain advantage/kill you if you have no taunt with stuff like the beast with UTH + their board creature.

The point problem with two big legendary(Ragnaros/King Krush) is not just the fact that it may suck to draw them early but that the chance of drawing a dead card is much more with 2 big legendary then with one and you also have to add the chance of drawing both before they can used; you already removed ysera though so its not that bad anymore.

I cant really find a reason why you arent master3 with this deck honestly so there must be a problem somewhere.

You can add me Asura#1611 and I can play you with any class and use any card(I have all card except few legendary).
Edited by Asura on 11/30/2013 2:32 PM PST
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