Viable Rogue deck

Posts: 4
Sooo i have been testing a lot of Rogue decks lately and none of the many ones made me feel fully confident, tried miracle Rogue - seemed too luck dependent IMO. tried the more reliable ones, but as i feel Rogues simply has too many good class cards, i yet got my !@# whooped...

So thi is the deck i am using now and would really appreciate any thought, ideas, changes critisme etc. :-)

- Cold blood x2
- Conceal x 2
- Sinister strike x 2
- Shield bearer x1
- Blade furry x1
- Eviscerate x2
- Sap x2
- Defias ringleader x2
- Knife Juggler x2
- Perditions blade x1
- Fan of knives x2
- Si:7 Agent x2
- Assasinate x2
- Azure drake x1
- Faceless manipulator x1
- Venture co. mercenary x1
- Vanish x1
- Ravenholdt Assassin x2
- Onyxia x1

My experience with this deck is that im having a hard time winning the game... i feel there are too many turn arounds...*sigh* Would love some guidance on how to improve it :-)
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Posts: 623
You have some nice cards in there, but just by looking at them, it seems like some of them don't really synergize very well with each other.

When building a deck, you should have a clear strategy in mind, or a specific set of "win conditions" that you want to work towards.

Since you included Conceal and Cold Blood, I'm guessing that you're generally trying to put Stealthed minions on the board, then buff and attack for big damage, am I right?

A few thoughts:

- You have quite a few "one of" cards. In general, you shouldn't have too many single copies of a card in your deck. You want to try to narrow your deck down to 13 or 14 really good synergistic cards, then put 2 copies each to maximize your chances of drawing the ones you want. Any remaining space in your deck can be filled by legendaries or cards that you typically only need once (Sprint, Vanish, etc)

- Get rid of the Shield Bearer, that card is trash.

- Get rid of Blade Flurry... you only have 1 weapon and no Deadly Poison, making this card basically useless.

- Sap isn't a great card... it CAN be great in the right situation, but usually it's just a desperation play to delay a minion that you can't deal with until next turn.

PS: If you want to have a look at the deck I've been playing recently, I just finished publishing it on Hearthhead:
Edited by Rubdown on 12/3/2013 10:03 AM PST
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Posts: 19
One-ofs are perfectly acceptable, if you know what you're doing.

And sap is indeed a great card.

Other than that, I agree with this guy^
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Posts: 11
Sap is a poor bounce. Any other kind of removal is better.
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Posts: 155
Running too many spells and not enough minions.

Get rid of conceals, 1 cold blood, both saps, 1 fan of knives, and vanish.

There is 7 more minions to play with, board presence is important.

of them 7 put in loot 2 drop card draw minions as atleast 2 or 3 of those 7 slots. They give you card draw and are low cost to combo for your rogue cards. couple midrange minions that buff. Then you should see a nice difference.

I did my ranked climb to masters 3 with rogue and i was guilty at first as well of running too many spells and not enough minions at the start.

Shieldbearer is bad. and you need more snap damage like argent protectors
Edited by Chosen on 12/10/2013 5:19 AM PST
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Posts: 6
I have a deck based around Shield Bearer , silly man.
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Posts: 156
I'm 2 star Grandmaster in constructed and play a ton of Rogue (my favorite class in the game by far). After playing a lot of Rogue, here's my opinion on a lot of her cards and the deck I use.

Let's go down the list by mana cost:

0 Mana:
Backstab - Deal 2 damage to an undamaged minion. Of the 0 cost Rogue spells, I find this one to be the most useful. While you generally don't want to run many 0 cost cards, the Rogue tends to play better with a mana curve that is a bit steeper in the front end. Having 2 copies of Backstab is a must for my way of playing Rogue. Using it retain board control in turns 2-4 while giving you a way to proc combo's off of defias ringleader, SI7 Agent, and Perdition's Blade is a lot of value, especially when going first and not having The Coin.

Shadowstep - Return a friendly minion to your hand. It costs (2) less.
This is a situational card. I used to run it quite a bit, particularly in my version of a weenie/murloc deck. I still think you could get away with using these, but you want to run a deck with a lot of Battlecry effects that are significant. Ultimately, I'd stick to the 2 Backstabs and don't run anymore 0 cost cards.

Preparation - The next spell you cast this turn costs (3) less.
Sounds awesome, and I even crafted one of these early on because I thought it'd be really useful, but the problem is that there just aren't a lot of Rogue spells that benefit from this card. Sure, you could use this to cast a Sprint for 4, or get a free Fan of Knives, but its just too situational and more often than not will sit in your hand as a dead card. Its worth noting that this cannot be used to lower the cost of Assassin's Blade or any other weapon for that matter.

1 Cost:

Adrenaline Rush - Draw a card. Combo: Draw 2 cards instead.
I don't have a copy of this card yet, but I wouldn't say I'm "missing" it either, Bob (Office Space quote). While card draw is great, there are better options that we'll discuss. I'm not a fan of running too many 1 drops either, and usually reserve 1 drops to a good minions.

Deadly Poison - Give your weapon +2 attack.
Excellent card. I know I just said not to run too many 1 drops, but here's the exception. If you're not going to run with some weapons in your deck, this drops in value, but is still very useful. I prefer to run 2 copies of Perdition's Blade and 1 copy of Assassin's Blade, so having 2 DP's is a must.

As a side note on the use of weapons, let me give you a bit of advice on how to make the best use of Deadly Poison, weapons, and your hero power. When using 1 cost cards like this, you have to maximize the value. In order to do that, you want to make sure you pour your poison on a weapon with maximum durability. This is not to say that there aren't situations where you'll have to drop your DP on the last remaining attack on a hero power dagger, there are, but this is not ideal. Especially in turns 1-4, if I use my mana to equip a weapon, I may only equip the weapon and not swing. This serves 2 purposes, the first being that you save all durability on the weapon for max damage with the poison. The second is that you give your opponent a chance to use weapon removal on the unbuffed weapon (Acidic Swamp Ooze, Harrison Jones, etc). If they have it in their hand, they'll likely use it and think about how glad they are that they brought that ASO. The idea is we want to bait out their weapon removal early so that they don't have it to use on our better weapons (Perdition/Assassin/Deadly Poisoned anything). Another thing to remember is that you can utilize DP in combination with Blade Flurry for some impressive AOE or a finishing move that the opponent doesn't see coming. Especially in mid to late game, if you've managed to bait out those pesky weapon removal cards and you've got a Deadly Poisoned Assassin's Blade (scary 5 damage per turn, 4 durability). In a pinch on turn 8 you could equip AB for 5, DP it for 1, attack the hero (assuming no taunts on the board), then blade flurry it for another 5 to ALL enemy characters. That's 10 dmg to the hero, plus 5 to all enemy minions. If you're playing Rogue correctly this may be lethal damage as I often win on turn 7-9. Okay, weapon talk is over for now, back to the cards...

Cold Blood - Give a minion +2 Attack. Combo: +4 Attack instead.
Not a bad choice if you're running a murloc/rush type deck, but I don't care for Cold Blood anymore. Again, it comes back to the amount of 1 drops you can legitimately run in a deck, and I find that more than 2 (1) cost spells is too many. Since I find Deadly Poison to be the superlative choice in value, those are my go to 1 drop spells here. Buffing a minion with an additional +4 attack is useful, but you'll normally only get 1 shot with that extra 4 damage before that minion is destroyed.

Conceal - Give your minions Stealth until your next turn.
A situational card choice. Again, I like Deadly Poison over the other 1 drops, so its not my cup of tea. However, if you're playing a "Miracle Rogue" type deck with Edwin Van Cleef, Questing Adventurers, Mana Addict's, or something like that, then I can see how you might want to play with 2 of these.

Sinister Strike - Deal 3 damage to the enemy hero.
Nope. You get zero value out of this card. Doing 3 damage for the cost of 1 mana is ok, but when you can't use it as board control it does nothing for you. Don't use this card.

2 cost:
Patient Assassin - 1/1 Stealth. Destroy any minion damaged by this minion.
Sounds pretty sweet, but he's too weak to be of use. Unless you have a lot of ways to buff this card up while it remains stealthed so it can survive to take down 2 minions, its not useful. I can honestly say I've never seen someone play with one of these in their deck, and I don't blame them.

Defias Ringleader - 2/2 Combo: Summon a 2/1 Defias Bandit.
Not as strong as he was pre-Rogue Nerf, but still a staple 2 drop minion for the Rogue in my opinion. This is STILL our town, Scrub. YEAH, beat it! Best sound file in the game for card drop. Obviously getting the max value of this is dependent on having a 0 cost spell and playing it as early as possible. This is THE turn 1 play with Coin, but can still be achieved on turn 2 without the Coin if you are running Backstab's or Shadowstep's and your opponent (or you, in the case of Shadowstep) have a minion on the board. Another way to get this out turn 3 is buy using hero power turn 2, not attacking, then using Deadly Poison turn 3 (max value, remember) and then dropping Defias. Run two of these bad boys for sure.

Blade Flurry - Destroy your weapon and deal its damage to all enemies.
I like this spell, but its only useful if you're running weapons, and if you're running weapons you'd better be running Deadly Poison. If you're running both weapons and Deadly Poison, then why not run at least one copy of Blade Flurry? The rogue lacks any AOE damage other than Fan of Knives, and unless you're running a spell power deck, FoK's are just not that good. Due to the nerf of Dalaran Mage, spell power decks in general took a hit.

Betrayal - An enemy minion deals its damage to the minions next to it.
Another card that is situational and that I don't care to run in my decks. While it can be very useful against decks that run a lot of minions, to get full value out of it you'll need your opponent to have 3 minions on the board and the middle one needs to have enough attack to kill the two on either side of it. If you're playing rogue, you should not be allowing your opponent to have more than one or two minions on the board. Besides that, you'll need at least 4 (2) drop minions on top of any spells you're going to run. This just doesn't fit for me. Not saying its a bad card, I just think there are better choices at (2), and speaking of better choices...

Eviscerate - Deal 2 damage. Combo: Deal 4 damage.
Here's another staple Rogue spell. You may recall my disdain for Sinister Strike from above when I said that dealing 3 damage for (1) was pretty good, but not being able to target minions made it worthless. Here's that card in the format we want. (2) for 4 damage to anything is great removal. Yes, you need to proc the combo for the full value, but this is rarely an issue with the use of Backstab, Deadly Poison, or other (1-3) drops you'll have. In a pinch, if you have to use this for the 2 damage instead of 4, that's ok, just not ideal. Run 2 copies of this in your deck for sure.

Shiv - Deal 1 damage. Draw a card.
With the 2 Eviscerates and 2 Backstabs, I don't see a reason to run these. Again, with spell power they are better, and the cantrip (read card draw) effect is useful to thin your deck out, but I just can't see running even one of these. I'd much rather have a Novice Engineer or Loot Hoarder than a Shiv.

Sap - Return an enemy minion to its owner's hand.
Not enough value here. You're burning a card and not actually getting rid of a card of your opponents. While this could be useful against a strong taunt minion when you have lethal damage on the board, that's a "win-more" situation, not something that's going to help you get out of a jam. Not to mention a lot of powerful minions that you'd want to use this on may have a strong Battlecry effect that you just gave back to them. Don't run Sap.

3 cost:
Edwin Van Cleef - 2/2 Gain +2/+2 for each card played earlier this turn.
I love EVC, but I don't have him yet. If you were fortunate enough to get this legendary or you crafted him for a whopping 1600 dust, you should include him. As previously mentioned, the Rogue tends to play best with a steeper early mana curve (in my opinion), and as such you'll often find that around turn 5 or 6 you can play EVC and 2 or even 3 cards prior to him. Admittedly, you may have to empty your hand to do this, but with EVC at 6/6 or 8/8, you're in a pretty strong situation. But what about MC, SW: Death, Polymorph, etc, Blackhawk? Yeah, no doubt you'll need to keep these things in mind and play around them to some extent, but that's part of playing this game. Putting a nasty 6/6 or 8/8 creature out can be a game winner, and usually occurs when you already have board control from the early game. If your opponent has managed to keep up with you in minions/board control, this can be the back breaker that cements your position. If he has a way to shut EVC down with a silence or one of the other cards I mentioned, then well played on his/her part. If you're playing the "Miracle Rogue" type deck, make sure to save a Conceal to keep him safe for a turn while he recovers from summoning sickness. You may also consider running a Master of Disguise to "restealth" him next turn, but this is a lot of conditional combination play that is hard to count on.

Headcrack - Deal 2 damage to the enemy hero. Combo: Return this to your hand next turn.
This used to be ok prior to the nerf, and I used to like running one in my deck, especially with some spell power minions to buff the damage. The problem is similar to my issue with Sinister Strike. Since I can't target it on a minion, its not going to help me retain board control. And at 3 mana, I'm going to have to hold on to this card for awhile before I can proc the combo effect while still holding on to my board control advantage. I wouldn't run this, but maybe someone has a different view on it. The next two cards are much better.

Perdition's Blade - 2/2 (Dmg/Durability Weapon) Battlecry: Deal 1 damage. Combo: Deal 2 instead.
I run 1-2 PB's in my deck and I can't see not running them. The utility you get out of being able to do 2 direct damage over two turns is good in and of itself. The Battlecry effect of this weapon is amazing. Did your opponent just put out a pesky Faerie Dragon? No problem here. Since its a battlecry and not a spell, you can target the damage off of it right on to the FD. Even if you don't have the mana to proc the combo (say turn 3), you can still just equip this and do 3 direct damage in one turn. Another thing I'll often do is bring out a (1-2) minion or spell, then equip PB for the 2 damage, then not attack and Deadly Poison it next turn. Now I get 4 direct damage x2 plus the 2 off the Battlecry. As previously mentioned, Blade Flurry should be considered when running weapons/Deadly Poison. And speaking of 2 damage Battlecry's...

SI:7 Agent - 3/3 Combo: Deal 2 damage.
Another staple minion for Rogue. Although I don't run Shadowstep anymore, here's a card that makes a strong combo for it. Dropping SI7 off a combo, proc'ing the 2 damage, then if you're opponent fails to kill him on his turn, you do your 3 damage (preferably to a 2/3 minion or direct to the face), Shadowstep him, then cast him for 1 and proc the 2 damage BC again. That's value. Alternatively, you could consider running a Youthful Brewmaster for a similar effect, albeit not as cheap mana wise.

Fan of Knives - Deal 1 damage to all enemy minions. Draw a card.
Much like Shiv, I don't care for this (3) spell. For my reasons, refer to previous entries.

4 mana:
Master of Disguise - 4/4 Battlecry: Give a friendly minion Stealth.
Not a card I personally care for when it comes to (4) minions. My preference is the extremely valuable neutral minions like Defender of Argus, Blackiron Dwarf, or Chillwind Yeti. There is a use case to be made for this minion if you are playing a "Miracle Rogue" type of deck, especially on Questing Adventurer which can just sit in stealth-mode while you pump him up with cheap spells and minion summoning.

5 mana: aka Assassin things
Assassinate - destroy an enemy minion.
What is there to say? It's 5 mana to outright destroy a minion. These are great on enemies with divine shield or any beefy taunt minion. That being said, I'm 50/50 on Assassinate. While it definitely has its uses, think about the other drops available for 5 mana. Azure Drake is a staple of many decks at (5), and I usually have one or two in my Rogue deck as well. You don't want more than 2-3 (5) drops and if you're running Azure Drake x2, that's probably all you can afford. Also, if you have her, Sylvanas Windrunner is an exceptional 5 drop legendary. 5/5 for (5) with that Battlecry? Pretty good value there. But there's another (5) you'll want to consider as well...

Assassin's Blade - Equip a 3/4 Weapon
Guys, if you're going to play with weapons in your deck, you'd better bring 1 copy of this one. The durability on this gives you so much board removal, its absurd. When coupled with one of your Deadly Poisons, the value goes through the roof. This is, assuming you don't get that 5/4 blade destroyed by the aforementioned minions. Although, tbh, I rarely see a swamp ooze come out by the time I play this. If the opposition is running two ASO's, you'll usually see the first one between turn 2-4. The second one may still be floating around and could take your weapon away, but it rarely happens to me. I also don't let myself hold on to it too long, which helps. If I can do my 5 damage when it comes out, skate through one more round with out it being destroyed, then I'll often attack with it again and burn it in a blade flurry if I'm worried about losing it.

6 mana
There are two cards in 6 mana for the Rogue, and in my opinion they are both trash. I'm not even going to go into the stats on them, suffice it to say they are not worth running unless you have some very specific theme deck you're trying to run. I can't even think of a theme deck you could viably make utilizing them, that's how bad they are. Just to briefly cover them though...

Kidnapper - 5/3 Combo: return a minion to the enemy's hand. At 6 cost, you won't even be able to proc the combo till turn 6 at the earliest, assuming you've got a backstab left over. Even then, all you did was put a card back in his hand, you didn't destroy it. And its 5/3, so it's susceptible to SW: Death and the 3 durability just makes it very killable by almost everything (2) and above.

Vanish - Return all minions to their owner's hand.
I don't know. I'm trying to fathom a way that this could be really useful. The problem is that your minions come back to your hand as well and you just paid 6 mana. Now you have an empty board, but all you can cast is 2-4 drops. There are very few situations I can see this winning a game or improving your situation.

And then there's Sprint. 7 mana to draw 4 cards. This is a controversial subject for many Rogue players. Usually around turn 7 or 8 you are getting very low on cards. Is a turn spent grabbing 4 cards your savior? It could be, if you have a very dominant position, perhaps you have an Assassin's blade with some durability left over and 2 or more creatures on the board already. Here, its great. The problem is, too often it sits in your hand as a dead card. I personally don't play with one, but if you think its the cat's meow, by all means go right ahead. I think they should change it to 5 mana for 3 cards, along the lines of Arcane Intellect's 3 mana for 2.

Ok, so that's all the Rogue cards. Here's the deck I play:

0- 2x Backstab
1- 2x Argent Squire
2x Deadly Poison

2- 2x Novice Engineer
2x Defias Ringleader
2x Eviscerate
2x Faerie Dragon (If I had Blood Mage Thalanos, I'd probably drop one of these for him)
1x Blade Flurry

3- 2x Harvest Golem
2x Shattered Sun Cleric
2x SI:7 Agent
1x Perdition's Blade

4 - 2x Defender of Argus
2x Dark Iron Dwarf

5- 1x Assassin's Blade
1x Azure Drake

6 - 1x Argent Commander
1x Cairne Bloodhoof (Yes, I know this seems a bit odd, but I only have 2 legendaries and I like putting one of them in and since the Argent Commander nerf, I thought I'd try him out here in place of one of the AC's)

The jury is still out on Argent Commander and Shattered Sun Cleric after the nerfs. I may be replacing them with other options, but for now I'm sticking with them as they still feel pretty solid.
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Posts: 2
BlackhawkMN, would you recommend running a Hogger in a rogue deck? I currently have no taunts in deck and use Hogger to compensate, but also a bullet magnet. Would you recommend this?

Also do you think a defender of argus or dark iron dwarf is a better choice for a rogue deck? I am hesitant about the Dark iron dwarf because it makes some cards susceptible to priest destruction.

Finally, would it be viable to use Crazed Alchemist to make some minons more susceptible to damage?
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Posts: 7
The problem with the rogue deck is most of the 'regular' taunts don't really fit in. Sen'jin / Lord of the Arena / Sunwalker don't really have a place in this deck as it's focused around destroying things and directly attacking through control. I think Defender of Argus is the best taunt in the game right now (especially after they didn't nerf it post patch).

I do have a Hogger but I don't think it's really worth it. If you're ahead, sure it's nice but if your opponent has at least 2 minions on the board, they can probably kill your 2/2 taunter as well as Hogger. If Hogger was 5/5 or something it would be different but I think it's really susceptible to all the 4 drops (dark iron, chillwind, etc).

The main problem with this deck is it lacks aoe if your opponent summons a bunch of monsters. I think betrayal is actually not a terrible card here because it can auto kill one, maybe two cards especially if you have nothing in your hand and they drop Rag. Similarly I like to run 1x assassinate, but that's personal preference.

I'm not sure where Crazed Alchemist would fit in at all...

Suggestions for the deck above:
1x argent squire - too susceptible to mage fireball then divine shield is useless
+ 1x betrayal
+ 1x assassinate
+ 1x silver hand knight
1x argent commander - don't think it's that good
- 1x cairne; probably sylvanas is better here but I don't own her. I'm putting in Ragnaros for the time being
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Posts: 156
So with regard to Taunt minions, I agree with Octopodes. Best to run the Defenders of Argus and let that cover your Taunt needs. The goal with my rogue decks is to always have the board control and if you do, you can usually wipe out their taunts with direct damage and they have to worry about taking out your minions, regardless of if they have taunt or not. For that reason, I don't think Hogger is ideal, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be used. I would try it out with him in for a bit, see what you find. Is he being put out and killed by your opponent the same turn or is he surviving 2-3 turns and creating more 2/2 taunts? If you find he's sticking around, by all means keep playing with him in.

People forget that the game is meant to be fun, and sometimes what's fun and what is the best card for your deck aren't the same! Legendary cards are just fun to play sometimes and I don't blame people for using the one they like in a deck even if its not the best fit.

Now, with regard to your suggestions, Octo...
Argent Squire - Not a necessity, could be subbed for Leper Gnome or the stealth 2/1 (Wargen Infiltrator?), I just think its a solid drop on turn 1 because if my opponent wants to drop a hero ability on his 2 mana drop to pop my shield, then I just won the trade. He spent 2 mana on my 1 mana drop and I still have a 1/1 creature out. Now what happens if come my turn 2 I coin Shattered Sun Cleric? Now my 1/1 is 2/2 and I have a 3/2, and you didn't do anything and I get 2 damage on you.

Betrayal - I've went back and forth on betrayal. I've had one in and took it out so many times. After doing some research on top ranked players I just didn't seem many of them playing with this card, so I have to assume they know better than I do.

Assassinate - I love assassinate and I could see my deck using one and dropping the Azure Drake, but I love the value of a 4/4 + card draw + spell power for a backstab or eviscerate.

Silver hand knight - I like this guy, but once again that (5) drop is just such a valuable spot. I can only afford 2-3 5 drops and with one being Assassin's Blade and one being the Azure Drake, I don't know that I can do a SHK.

Argent Commander - prior to the nerf, I don't think there was a better (6) drop in the game. If you look at pro deck lists, you'd see 2 Argent Commanders here in nearly every deck. The fact that they almost always trade 2 for 1 due to charge/divine shield makes them just too useful not to use. Post nerf, I have noticed that I'll often lose him to a smaller minion or a 1 dmg spell + a 1/1 minion or something like that. So the value goes down a little bit, but I still think he's pretty solid.

If I had Sylvanas, she'd be in for sure. I play 1 Cairne for the fun of it. I'd also run a Bloodmage Thalanos in this if I had him. Again, another exceptionally valuable card that includes spell power + card draw.
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Posts: 7
I playtested the deck a bit and came up with some better suggestions. Haven't had that much time, but I have a better idea of what to do.

Argent Squire is better than I thought. However I still stand by having only 1. Reason being is that I would rather have another large drop then a second 1 drop.

These are the first or second drops (that I run) in this deck: Backstab x2, Argent Squire x1, Eviscerate x2, Acidic Swamp Ooze x1, Defias Ringleader x2, Faerie Dragon x2, Novice Engineer x2. That's 12 monsters/spells and I would rather not have another 1 drop.

12/11/2013 08:34 AMPosted by BlackhawkMN

Assassinate - I love assassinate and I could see my deck using one and dropping the Azure Drake, but I love the value of a 4/4 + card draw + spell power for a backstab or eviscerate.

Silver hand knight - I like this guy, but once again that (5) drop is just such a valuable spot. I can only afford 2-3 5 drops and with one being Assassin's Blade and one being the Azure Drake, I don't know that I can do a SHK.

Argent Commander - prior to the nerf, I don't think there was a better (6) drop in the game. If you look at pro deck lists, you'd see 2 Argent Commanders here in nearly every deck. The fact that they almost always trade 2 for 1 due to charge/divine shield makes them just too useful not to use. Post nerf, I have noticed that I'll often lose him to a smaller minion or a 1 dmg spell + a 1/1 minion or something like that. So the value goes down a little bit, but I still think he's pretty solid.

Personally I don't think Betrayal is that great of a card either. I don't really own any viable substitutes and I think rogue needs another strong spell so I'm keeping it in.

I think your opinions are very valid. The reason why I structured my deck the way I did is that the only problems this deck has is lategame - if you don't manage to zerg their health fast enough in early/mid you can have trouble closing out the game. I think Ragnaros is a must: he helps so much in closing especially against mage.

To be fair I was sort of structuring this deck as anti-mage:
Harvest Golem / Faerie Dragon are good vs mage, and Silver Hand stops Blizzard. Flamestrike isn't really that much of an issue at the moment, and Rag works through freeze which is really important.
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