Pyroblast OP

Posts: 6,880

Now, like I said, I don't want to bash Pyro as it does have its uses obviously. But if I had to choose one or the other in Arena, I'd almost always pick Ragnaros. The consistent damage every turn, even if random, and the fact that it will at worst be a 1:1 card trade with the opponent outweighs in most situations to be the idea that I can do more damage in a non-random fashion but only one time, and lose card advantage in the process.

And like I said I would always choose Pyroblast.

Neither of us are wrong here. You just value the cards differently to me. That's ok, as we're both allowed to have our own opinion. And we both explained very well why we prefer the card we chose.

There is no argument here. Your choice is NOT better than mine. It's just different to mine. And we each have our reasons for choosing so. I don't expect you to choose pyro over Ragnoras. You like Ragnoras and that's ok. I do however ask that can you accept that it's not about you or me being right. In an arena draft Pyro/Ragnoras/some bad card, you'd choose Ragnoras and most times I'd probably choose Pyro and neither of us is wrong. As long as we both use the card we chose well we are both winners.
Edited by the8thark on 1/10/2014 4:31 PM PST
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Posts: 12,718
Please spell Ragnaros correctly. I do not mean to be rude, but that's a pet peeve of mine.

And I'd argue that they are both fairly even for their power levels as 8 mana cards. If a card is going to use my entire turn to cast it, it damn well better be powerful, otherwise it might as well not exist, like War Golem and company.
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Posts: 6,880
01/10/2014 04:56 PMPosted by Zelethul
Please spell Ragnaros correctly. I do not mean to be rude, but that's a pet peeve of mine.

And I'd argue that they are both fairly even for their power levels as 8 mana cards. If a card is going to use my entire turn to cast it, it damn well better be powerful, otherwise it might as well not exist, like War Golem and company.

I agree. But there also should be an element of risk. As paying all that mana and using your entire turn is like going all in, in poker. Take one fat risk. If it pays off, Yay. If not you lucked out.

Ragnaros - Always does its initial random 8 damage. So it's never a bad card.
Pyro - Always does it's 10 damage (unless a mage secret hits it)
Zero risk for both of the cards.

Deathwing on the other hand has a ton of associated risk. I won't spell it out as you know it all and it costs 2 more mana.
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Posts: 12,718
Deathwing on the other hand has a ton of associated risk. I won't spell it out as you know it all and it costs 2 more mana.


Deathwing is also considered to be a pretty terrible card. I don't think the game needs any more RNG, that just takes more out of the hands of the players than is already the case.
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Posts: 316
12/31/2013 10:02 AMPosted by Jaimashih
2 Pyro + 2 Fireballs = 32 HP worth of damage. I think it would be just fine to add more options for other classes to actually be able to counter these very potent spells. At the moment, the only class that can counterspell the Mage nonsense is... the Mage himself :D.


I've had 2 priests just yesterday steal Counterspells from my deck with that BS "Take 2 cards from your opponent" card and save them; it was hard to play against. Very hard. If all classes have counterspell options it would be difficult to play as mage.

One option for counterplay to Mages (not saying it's needed just bringing up this as an option) is to introduce a "Silence" ability for one turn. 5-6 mana="Enemy player can not cast spells next turn". DK "Mind Freeze" would be a good example for this.


So if you found counterspells hard to play against as a mage, imagine how it is for everyone else? It really sucks when you get down to 15 health and you know you've already lost because the next couple turns are just fireball/pyroblast. Or you almost have the game won, but you know that secret sitting there waiting to be revealed is going to make him immune to all damage for one turn, and by then he'll pyroblast you a second time and you're going to lose. And it doesn't matter that you have board control. It doesn't matter that you have taunters in play. Nothing matters, because you have to waste a turn beating him down just to trigger the secret, and you cannot win that turn. Then he'll pyroblast.
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Posts: 46
11 unblockable damage. I like the game in general because even the most op legendary can be countered easily if you've got the right cards in your hand and you've been playing smart. But there's no such thing when it comes to mage, it doesn't matter what you have in your hand, or on the board.
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01/10/2014 08:29 PMPosted by SunDanceKid
11 unblockable damage. I like the game in general because even the most op legendary can be countered easily if you've got the right cards in your hand and you've been playing smart. But there's no such thing when it comes to mage, it doesn't matter what you have in your hand, or on the board.

Of course there are things you can do. Why do you think that all sorts of classes are in legendary? If it was "impossible" to prevent mage damage, everyone would be playing mage. They aren't, and in fact mages have only average win rates overall in constructed - slightly under 50% actually.

All you need to do is keep pressure on, and maybe use healing cards (although if you play aggressively enough, you don't need healing). If a mage has a choice of using some smaller spells to prevent a huge amount of incoming damage, they'll obviously do that instead of using a single 10 dmg pyro, then taking way over 10 dmg in the face.

Not sure why I'm bothering to explain this to you though. It's been explained many times, but you, like all the other losers, are not interested in improving yourselves. You just want to whine, moan, and use this forum as a therapy session. If you're losing, which you are, it's because the other player BEAT you. Not because the game is "unfair". The other guy was better than you, and will continue to be better than you unless you accept your current limitations and learn to play better.

Whining, moaning and trolling won't improve your game.
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Posts: 8
Make Pyroblast 12 dmg for 10 mana if you want dmg efficeint card

and Rogue can make 24 dmg with how many cards ? 6 ?

The bigest problem is mage can make some cos efficent minions early game lower your hp some then finish you in turn 8 or 9
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Posts: 181
So sick of dying to 20 direct damage from mage... It feels like its the only class that no matter how I play if they draw certain cards I have no way of winning. Very frusterating, and seems very common. I honestly feel like I lose 80% of games where I take even just 10 damage from minions. People saying to build your decks better... I was ranked 34th in north america at my high point in constructed, and consistently 7-12 arena. I don't think mage is OP, it just feels the absolute greasiest losing to them.

Also, how is everyone that plays mage such an !@# hole? Maybe it is just coincidence, but they are the only class that seems people tick down the timer well you are at 10 life and pyro you to the face at the very last second, then spam well played .

Again, just feels greasy when they draw 2x frostbolt 2x icelance and a pyroblast for 24 unpreventable damage.
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Posts: 10
01/10/2014 11:35 PMPosted by Scerion
11 unblockable damage. I like the game in general because even the most op legendary can be countered easily if you've got the right cards in your hand and you've been playing smart. But there's no such thing when it comes to mage, it doesn't matter what you have in your hand, or on the board.

Of course there are things you can do. Why do you think that all sorts of classes are in legendary? If it was "impossible" to prevent mage damage, everyone would be playing mage. They aren't, and in fact mages have only average win rates overall in constructed - slightly under 50% actually.

All you need to do is keep pressure on, and maybe use healing cards (although if you play aggressively enough, you don't need healing). If a mage has a choice of using some smaller spells to prevent a huge amount of incoming damage, they'll obviously do that instead of using a single 10 dmg pyro, then taking way over 10 dmg in the face.

Not sure why I'm bothering to explain this to you though. It's been explained many times, but you, like all the other losers, are not interested in improving yourselves. You just want to whine, moan, and use this forum as a therapy session. If you're losing, which you are, it's because the other player BEAT you. Not because the game is "unfair". The other guy was better than you, and will continue to be better than you unless you accept your current limitations and learn to play better.

Whining, moaning and trolling won't improve your game.


You sire win the award for most clueless person on the forum, congrats!
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Posts: 1,674
I've read a few pages of this thread, and I've considered both sides of the argument whether Pyro in its current state should stay or go. I'm right in the middle here, but I have some ideas I'd like to throw out there.

Pyroblast: 0 mana spell. When cast, your Hero Power becomes Pyroblast, costs 8 mana, and deals 10 damage until used. This closes the Hero Power this turn. (Becomes 2-mana Fireblast again after Pyro is fired)

(edit--perhaps, instead of simply being able to play it at 0 mana and close the hero power, pyroblast can only be equipped as a combo after using the hero power)

With this, Pyroblast costs the same and does the same amount of damage, but penalizes the mage in two ways: The opponent knows you have the Pyro and you're unable to ping for 1 damage until Pyro is used. Yes, this removes the ability to Pyro and ping for 1 in the same turn.

This is similar to a Warrior equipping a weapon and a Priest casting Shadowform. It also makes sense in relation to WoW because Pyroblast has a very long casttime. (Used to be even longer!)

An added bonus for the mage, in fact, is that Pyroblast can never be Counterspelled by another Mage; Hero Powers cannot be Counterspelled!
Edited by Franksredhot on 1/12/2014 5:01 PM PST
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Posts: 6
Pyroblast too good, needs to be 10 mana, if mind control is 10 mana then so should pyroblast.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
I've read a few pages of this thread, and I've considered both sides of the argument whether Pyro in its current state should stay or go. I'm right in the middle here, but I have some ideas I'd like to throw out there.

Pyroblast: 0 mana spell. When cast, your Hero Power becomes Pyroblast, costs 8 mana, and deals 10 damage until used. This closes the Hero Power this turn. (Becomes 2-mana Fireblast again after Pyro is fired)

With this, Pyroblast costs the same and does the same amount of damage, but penalizes the mage in two ways: The opponent knows you have the Pyro and you're unable to ping for 1 damage until Pyro is used. Yes, this removes the ability to Pyro and ping for 1 in the same turn.

This is similar to a Warrior equipping a weapon and a Priest casting Shadowform. It also makes sense in relation to WoW because Pyroblast has a very long casttime. (Used to be even longer!)

An added bonus for the mage, in fact, is that Pyroblast can never be Counterspelled by another Mage; Hero Powers cannot be Counterspelled!


While I appreciate that you're trying to be level-headed and balanced, that seems overly complicated to reduce the max damage a mage can do on turn 10 by 1.
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Posts: 1,674
I don't think it's overly complicated. Yea, it makes the Mage slightly more complex--though I think that's an overstatement--I think that's good.

Do you think there is any value in knowing that your Mage opponent can use a Pyroblast against you at any time? You can see it right there in his/her Hero Power! :)
Edited by Franksredhot on 1/12/2014 5:11 PM PST
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Posts: 1,674
Pyroblast is being changed to cost 10 mana. Harsh!
:)
:)
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
01/13/2014 10:48 AMPosted by Franksredhot
Pyroblast is being changed to cost 10 mana. Harsh!
:)
:)


Frankly though, I wouldn't cry for Mage. The class that really took a beating was Warlock rush. The Blood Imp change in particular is huge, but ontop of that, they nerfed a substantial number of the neutral cards that are essential to the class. I'm kind of saddened by the nerf to Defender of Argus in particular; I know people complained about it, but given its stats relative to cost, I thought the card was fine. I'm a little less certain about what to think about the Dark Iron Dwarf change. One could even argue that in SOME situations this is a buff since you can now safely play it even if it requires you to buff an enemy minion (since the effect only lasts one turn).
Edited by Sar on 1/13/2014 10:54 AM PST
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Posts: 1,674
01/13/2014 10:53 AMPosted by Sar
I wouldn't cry for Mage.


Those were happy faces. :)
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