Equality/Wild Pyromancer is too cheap

Posts: 96
people are looking at cards and combos to often in a vacuum without taken into consideration the rest of the cards the class has

yes wild pyromancer equality is insane a board clear for 4 mana wooahoho
but then look at what other aoe a paladin has 2 consecrations that is not too impresive

or look at the hard removal paladin has
aldor peacekeeper could perhaps be seen as hard removal

it is reasonable because paladins dont have tons of removal

and equality can be played around if your say a control warlock and think its a good idea to put 4 giants on the board vs a paladin who has not played a single equality yet
you kind of deserve it

pace yourself if you already have enough big stuff on the field that he would play an equality there is often little reason to play more stuff
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Posts: 718
01/23/2014 01:18 PMPosted by Luckygozer
people are looking at cards and combos to often in a vacuum without taken into consideration the rest of the cards the class has

yes wild pyromancer equality is insane a board clear for 4 mana wooahoho
but then look at what other aoe a paladin has 2 consecrations that is not too impresive

or look at the hard removal paladin has
aldor peacekeeper could perhaps be seen as hard removal

it is reasonable because paladins dont have tons of removal

and equality can be played around if your say a control warlock and think its a good idea to put 4 giants on the board vs a paladin who has not played a single equality yet
you kind of deserve it

pace yourself if you already have enough big stuff on the field that he would play an equality there is often little reason to play more stuff
i wouldn't call aldors removal but more of a suppression which can get countered by silence
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Posts: 3
What would happen if pyromacer would be changed so their ability comes before the spell. Palla would loose the boardclearing but they still have that possability with concecrate + equality.
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Posts: 718
02/05/2014 01:00 PMPosted by Leptkar
What would happen if pyromacer would be changed so their ability comes before the spell. Palla would loose the boardclearing but they still have that possability with concecrate + equality.
nice necroing :I also having pyromancers damage go first would make it worthless to have in paladin decks as that was the whole point to him
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Posts: 71
If Equality costed 3...
'Equal Pyro' would cost 5 mana / 2 cards
'Equal Consecrate' would cost 7 mana / 2 cards

seems fair, right?
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Posts: 718
02/05/2014 08:24 PMPosted by RobBot
If Equality costed 3...
'Equal Pyro' would cost 5 mana / 2 cards
'Equal Consecrate' would cost 7 mana / 2 cards

seems fair, right?
I think it would be fair, a lot more fair than what most people suggest with making it 4 mana, you can still play turn 4 pyro equality or turn 6 equality consecrate with the help of coin
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Posts: 29
Auchenai + Circle of Healing is even worse.

It leaves you with 4/1 advantage. It's like Flamestrike saying "Deals 4 damage to all enemy minions and summon a 4/1 Fire Elemental".

Although of course, Equal+Pyro clears every single thing on the board. (Except Divine Shielded minions)
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Posts: 11
Just one thing that needs to be added here:

The Equality / Pyromancer combo clears everything, regardless of health. No other removal can do that on multiple targets (well, brawl. but seriously...)

The only thing that saves you is divine shield, and even then you're left with 1hp and no shield.
Of course you get your deathrattles, but hey, it's a damage based removal (and everything else would be ridiculous).
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Posts: 1,811
02/06/2014 01:48 AMPosted by BoRT
The Equality / Pyromancer combo clears everything, regardless of health. No other removal can do that on multiple targets (well, brawl. but seriously...)


Twisting Nether, 8 mana warlock card also ignores Divine shields, 1 card. They dont play it though because they have os much insane removal already, Shadowflame, hellfire Siphon soul etc.
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Posts: 46
1) Paladins lack hard removal
2) Requires 2 cards to pull it off
3) Doesn't kill minions with Divine Shield
4) Kills all your creatures as well

Enough said?
Edited by Chamallow on 2/6/2014 5:45 AM PST
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Posts: 40
Eq+ pyrom is not that great for example divine shields screws you up, Murloc warleader negates the combo and so does Stormwind champion so whatever. Plus anythign you might have on board dies probably aswell.
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Posts: 353
02/06/2014 05:43 AMPosted by Chamallow
1) Paladins lack hard removal
2) Requires 2 cards to pull it off
3) Doesn't kill minions with Divine Shield
4) Kills all your creatures as well

Enough said?


Reasons number 3 and 4 are why this is a nice combo to have on a paladin divine shield deck, which means point 3 suddenly becomes an advantage instead of a disadvantage and point 4 is less relevant.
Edited by UnderScorePT on 3/31/2014 7:03 AM PDT
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Posts: 14
I'm not here to argue for a nerf, but I am going to provide some counterpoints to these arguments.

01/23/2014 01:18 PMPosted by Luckygozer

yes wild pyromancer equality is insane a board clear for 4 mana wooahoho
but then look at what other aoe a paladin has 2 consecrations that is not too impresive


I'd say that consecration is at least on par with Shaman's only aoe - lightning storm, which can't be counted on to do any more damage than consecration, and carries 2 overload, effectively dampening your next turn.

01/23/2014 01:18 PMPosted by Luckygozer

or look at the hard removal paladin has
aldor peacekeeper could perhaps be seen as hard removal

it is reasonable because paladins dont have tons of removal


Yes, paladins don't have a lot of hard removal, but they have some of the best weapons in the game, and some of the best buffs to help make up for it.

01/23/2014 01:18 PMPosted by Luckygozer

and equality can be played around if your say a control warlock and think its a good idea to put 4 giants on the board vs a paladin who has not played a single equality yet
you kind of deserve it

pace yourself if you already have enough big stuff on the field that he would play an equality there is often little reason to play more stuff


Pace yourself is good advice for anyone. However, there's a big difference between "pacing yourself" against an opponent potentially holding an AOE that can do damage, and one that is a guaranteed board clear. Against the former it means you shouldn't play too many minions that will perish to the potential damage. Against the latter it means "don't outclass your opponent on the board." That usually means that while you're "pacing yourself" you are either at a standstill with respect to actually effectively doing any damage, or worse, you're taking damage. (Because let's face it, only and idiot player would use this combo if they weren't seriously behind on the board.) Paladin's love that kind of situation because they can easily win a war of slow damage, due to their big heals. The only effective way to beat them is to gain enough board control to do significant damage, and that means you either need the near perfect trickle of very big minions that simply outclass paladin's minions, or you need to flood the board with enough small to midsize minions to overwhelm them, effectively opening yourself up to serious repercussions from the board clear. I'm not saying It's not possible, It just means your deck better be well stocked with beefy minions. (Effectively meaning you need a rather expensive deck to pull off that strategy)

I find it funny that people keep pointing out that equality/pyro clears the Paladin's board too, like it's some kind of major DISADVANTAGE. Yes, it clears your board. So unless you're brainless you'll only play it when you are seriously outclassed on the board.
Edited by GZero on 3/31/2014 9:31 PM PDT
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Posts: 623
The only thing that counters pyroquality is stormwind champion, while he will die, the rest of minions wil surfive with 1 hp. Equality + consecrate on the other hand... Now thats guaranteed kill.
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Posts: 598
Requires 2 cards...... Hence cheap.

Easily played around, and destroys your own minions pretty much.
Edited by Freakiishlyz on 4/1/2014 3:50 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,238
Eq+Pyro is what Twisting Nether SHOULD be priced at. Eq+Consecrate is ridiculously strong but still has friendly fire implications and does cost 6 mana to cast, it's fine.
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Posts: 718
03/31/2014 09:21 PMPosted by GZero
I find it funny that people keep pointing out that equality/pyro clears the Paladin's board too, like it's some kind of major DISADVANTAGE. Yes, it clears your board. So unless you're brainless you'll only play it when you are seriously outclassed on the board
I find it funny when people forget that equality combos take 2 cards to do, not 1 like mages and warlocks, but 2
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Posts: 14
04/01/2014 08:50 AMPosted by Toxichart
03/31/2014 09:21 PMPosted by GZero
I find it funny that people keep pointing out that equality/pyro clears the Paladin's board too, like it's some kind of major DISADVANTAGE. Yes, it clears your board. So unless you're brainless you'll only play it when you are seriously outclassed on the board
I find it funny when people forget that equality combos take 2 cards to do, not 1 like mages and warlocks, but 2


First of all, yes, it's a two card combination. I never said it wasn't. I also never said it needed to be nerfed. I was merely pointing out that the combo is essentially a board reset button, and one the paladin will only play when his board is so outclassed that his minions don't have much hope of effectively controlling the board, so they are essentially a write-off anyway. True, anyone would rather clear out their opponent's minions without affecting their own, but the only ones that can do that more effectively than a paladin anyway is a mage with flamestrike. Of course that has limitations as well. Obviously anything with >4 health won't be cleared out by (an unsuplemented) flamestrike either.

Secondly, all of this completely ignores the fact that equality in it's own right can be a psuedo-clear. If the paladin can manage to match (or better, exceed) the number of minions their opponent has on the board, the pyromancer or consecration becomes completely unecessary, since equality + trade minions = board clear.
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Posts: 181
04/01/2014 06:18 AMPosted by VSarius
Eq+Pyro is what Twisting Nether SHOULD be priced at. Eq+Consecrate is ridiculously strong but still has friendly fire implications and does cost 6 mana to cast, it's fine.


As it was stated already, while Twisting Nether's effect is killing everything, Eq + Pyro sets minions to 1 health and does 1 damage. Difference here is that divine shield and board hp buffs like Murloc Warleader and Stormwind Champion make the opponents board immune to this board clear.
Also as a paladin you can take all my equality combos if you give me a hard removal instead. This wouldn't just provide me with a reliable removal but also with more space in my deck because my removal would take just 1 (2) card slots instead of 2 (4).
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Posts: 38
I just removed this combo from my control paladin deck because I feel that it is too weak. Losing 2 cards is huge deal and you HAVE TO kill at least 3 cards to get advantage. Paladin doesn't have very strong class cards for card draw either.

Also, you lose one of your two equalities, which are extremely important cards for clearing out big legendaries. As mentioned, paladins have very few ways to clear them other than running humility/peacekeeper + kodo combo.

Also, while 4 mana is quite cheap, it still doesn't leave you with that high mana remaining. Ideally you can drop a cairne with 6 mana, but when the board clear is the most needed, you will most likely do it at 4-6 mana. At 4 mana the warlock will just fill up the board again and hero ability to get more cards resulting in slight hit in his deck size and health - you still need to get board control.

Wild pyro can have very bad interactions with other paladin cards and hero power. Loot hoarder on the other hand is a solid 2-drop for slower paladin decks that like to run twilight drakes and need some cycling to get their better draws / answers.

http://imgur.com/xXAIzqj

Here is my paladin deck. Currently rank 11, but I have lost maybe total 3 games on my way here. The deck has very good match up vs control warrior, control druid and aggro decks. Shamans are maybe slightly favored depending much on the twilight - ES interactions, as if they have to use hex on drake they are very likely to lose.
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