Hero power issue: Dagger mastery

Posts: 115
At first glance dagger mastery looks like a great hero power, and for the first 3-5 turns of the game it is. The problem is that there is no synergy between Dagger mastery and any other card save deadly poison. Lets take a look at some of the other weapon classes real quick.

Warrior is a class with plenty of weapon options from fiery War axe to gorehowl and everything in between. The best part of this though is their synergy with the deceptively good armor up hero power. armor up will usually mitigate at least 10 points of damage per game, that is at least an extra 10 health to play around with. the rogue doesn't have this option; any damage you take from head bonking a minion sticks unless you run with lots of healing cards, which is an option for any class.

Then there's the Paladin. Sword of justice has amazing synergy with with his silverhand recruit ability and it can still be used to kill off that 1 health minion in a pinch. Truesilver champion is great because it's a solid 4 damage and it heals you for 2 making it easier to head bonk a minion and stay healthy.

The Hunter doesn't have many weapons but his eaglehorn bow has great synergy with his play style because of all the trap cards he runs. The hunter can use traps for removal and just keep chipping at away at the other guys health with his bow and hero ability. His other weapon gives him immunity while attacking which is pretty amazing.

Then we look back at the rogues weapons and her hero ability. There is only one card in the deck that sort of has synergy with Dagger master and that card is deadly poison. Deadly poison increases her weapons damage to 3 for 1 mana. Sounds pretty good at first glance, it can kill off those higher health minions in the early game leaving your minions healthy. Then we notice Deadly poison actually requires 3 mana to be efficient, 2 for the weapon and 1 for the poison weather we spent that mana this turn or last turn it still totals 3 mana for a 3/2 weapon, the warrior gets this for 2 mana, but wait there's more! Unlike other classes where their weapons synergize with their hero ability, deadly poison actually has you make a decision on the turn after you use it: Attack something and dagger up, or do nothing and waste 2 mana. No other class in the game has to make this decision, when you have 2 mana you spend it on your hero ability.

Deadly poison isn't the worst offender of this though, we still have perdition's blade which has literally no synergy with Dagger mastery at all, once you equip the blade you don't use your ability for 2 turns.

Assasins blade is the worst offender here with 4 turns of ending your turn with that 2 extra mana.

What I'm getting at here is that the rogues hero ability or weapon cards need to be completely reworked to have some semblance of synergy and be more in-line with the other classes.

Also rogue is the only headbonking class that doesn't have any damage mitigation whatsoever.
Reply Quote
Posts: 174
Blade flurry is an AoE that can hit harder than Flamestrike. Next.
Reply Quote
Posts: 115
12/13/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Thaesda
Blade flurry is an AoE that can hit harder than Flamestrike. Next.


That has nothing to do with Assasins blade making your hero ability useless for 4 turns, no other class has to deal with something like this.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,368
I do not know why they won't either let the blades combo or let me use it twice to get a 2/2 blade.

Blade fury is a tough one also, it takes a combonation of putting 4-6 cards in your deck to be effective, 2-3 if you want to be able to play it well once every 10 games.

Blade fury (epic) - Though it do have 2 somehow
Deadly Poison
Weapon

You can scrap the weapon or the poison, but either way that is an expensive AOE..
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,384
The problem here is you're comparing the Rogue's Hero Power with other weapons, when you should be comparing them with other Heroes' Powers.

All Hero Powers do 2 of something, except for the Mage, where the choice of target is the trade-off.
Reply Quote
Posts: 115
12/13/2013 09:38 AMPosted by BrknSoul
The problem here is you're comparing the Rogue's Hero Power with other weapons, when you should be comparing them with other Heroes' Powers.

All Hero Powers do 2 of something, except for the Mage, where the choice of target is the trade-off.


Did you read the post? I am comparing it to other hero powers. I'm saying that when the rogue equips a weapon her hero power becomes obsolete for X turns. no other hero in the game has to deal with not being able to use their hero power save locks that are low on health.
Reply Quote
Posts: 20,464
12/13/2013 09:41 AMPosted by Azlith
The problem here is you're comparing the Rogue's Hero Power with other weapons, when you should be comparing them with other Heroes' Powers.

All Hero Powers do 2 of something, except for the Mage, where the choice of target is the trade-off.


Did you read the post? I am comparing it to other hero powers. I'm saying that when the rogue equips a weapon her hero power becomes obsolete for X turns. no other hero in the game has to deal with not being able to use their hero power save locks that are low on health.

Priests who are full health
Shamans who have a full board of minions
Paladins who have a full board of minions

That is 4 (or 5 counting locks) out of 9 classes that have their hero power rendered "useless" in some situations.

If I recall right, didn't the Hero Power use to increase the current weapon by 1? That would be a potential change I could get behind.

"Increases the Attack of your current weapon by +1 until the end of turn. Cannot enhance the Weapon provided by your Hero Power".
Reply Quote
Posts: 487
Blade "flurry" is a rare, not epic. And yea, choosing whether to use it or not basically shapes your entire deck.

I agree with Rogue Hero Ability having issues. Could be solved by giving +1 to any weapon that is already equipped (like post above me is saying). Not sure if that would need balancing around damage peak (without spell damage, yes it works with Blade Flurry) being 8 instead of 7, but guessing it wouldn't be game breaking.
Edited by SolidSmoke on 12/13/2013 10:16 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,103
12/13/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Thaesda
Blade flurry is an AoE that can hit harder than Flamestrike. Next.


Dat logic.

You do realize that blade furry/assins blade is a 7 mana total combo that only does 3 damage to all. Flame strike is 7 mana deal 4. If you add poisens then yes it does more, but at the cost of more cards AND mana total to do the work of flamestrike.

So no blade furry isn't better than a flamestrike in value overall. Flamestrike = 1 card deal 4 damage for 7 mana, Bladefuryy/assassins/deadly 3 cards deal 5 damage total for 8 mana

EDIT: Quoted wrong person.
Edited by Rolia on 12/13/2013 12:01 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,735
The solution, proposed many times by other people (not my idea) is the following for the Rogue hero power:

2 mana: Equip a 1/2 dagger; if you already have a weapon equipped, give it +1/-1.

This lets you deal 1 damage each turn over two turns, or 2 damage in a single turn but you have to wait two turns to set it up, or buff up a dagger you have equipped, though it lowers duration to do so. Seems like the fairest option all around.
Reply Quote
Posts: 682
12/13/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Thaesda
Blade flurry is an AoE that can hit harder than Flamestrike. Next.

At a cost of no fewer than 3 cards.
Reply Quote
Posts: 54
Rogue is in a poor state right now. But looking back it never used to be. I think this was just a case of being hit too hard by nerfs. Rogue was my main in WoW so naturally I picked it up first in Hearthstone.

The hero power is fantastic for board clear between turns 1-4. Other than that you are simply trading health with taunt minions forever... This is the main problem I see with the power. I think the power should just be reworked into something completely different because it's having little to no effect.

Rogues aren't winning tournaments (they aren't even close) and they are virtually never seen.
I think in a recent statistic released the play rate of a rogue is like 3% of the community, Mages and priest share something like 22% of the community each.

Pretty much says it all.
Reply Quote
Posts: 155
Rogue's Hero Power is the worst at the moment. Used to be very good, but they broke it.

Now if you want to use the weapons you are going to have a waste of mana because your hero power is useless while using a weapon.

At least let we buff the others weapons. I mean, you can't buff your dagger but can buff Assassins Blade and Perdition's Blade.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,379
12/13/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Thaesda
Blade flurry is an AoE that can hit harder than Flamestrike. Next.


Nice troll... the only way to get a blade flurry to hit that hard is to spend 2-3 cards in addition to blade flurry. This doesn't justify the weak late game weapon.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,515
Mage's hero power has absolutely no synergy with anything. So at least there is that.
Reply Quote
Posts: 117
12/22/2013 04:25 PMPosted by osea101
Mage's hero power has absolutely no synergy with anything. So at least there is that.


You post this in a week old thread? I hope that is sarcasm because this is: enraging creatures, pinging acolyte of pain, hitting things behind taunt and breaking divine shield sure sounds awful.
Reply Quote
Posts: 245
12/13/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Raz
The solution, proposed many times by other people (not my idea) is the following for the Rogue hero power:

2 mana: Equip a 1/2 dagger; if you already have a weapon equipped, give it +1/-1.

This lets you deal 1 damage each turn over two turns, or 2 damage in a single turn but you have to wait two turns to set it up, or buff up a dagger you have equipped, though it lowers duration to do so. Seems like the fairest option all around.


that would be so OP think about:
assassin blade hero power (4/3) dont attack
next turn hero power, 5/2 attack 5/1 and blade fury for 5 to all (throw poison where you want for 8 to one and 8 to all dmg)
Reply Quote
Posts: 48
12/13/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Raz
The solution, proposed many times by other people (not my idea) is the following for the Rogue hero power:

2 mana: Equip a 1/2 dagger; if you already have a weapon equipped, give it +1/-1.

This lets you deal 1 damage each turn over two turns, or 2 damage in a single turn but you have to wait two turns to set it up, or buff up a dagger you have equipped, though it lowers duration to do so. Seems like the fairest option all around.

The problem with this solution is that, after the first hit with the power dagger, you have to commit to only dealing 1 damage. This change suits weapon based rogue decks but doesn't help other decks and it remains the same useless power.
Reply Quote
Posts: 848
Team Liquid listed the rogue's hero power as the 2nd most powerful one (after only warlock).

Also, shaman is a head bonking class with no damage mitigation what so ever, and they're one of the best healers in WoW.
Reply Quote
Posts: 117
12/26/2013 07:15 PMPosted by ShadowcatX
Team Liquid listed the rogue's hero power as the 2nd most powerful one (after only warlock).

Also, shaman is a head bonking class with no damage mitigation what so ever, and they're one of the best healers in WoW.


That was curi's opinion which he even said was controversial. I wouldn't be surprised if that article was a little bias based on how the classes where doing at the time the article was wrote as well (before the last two balance changes.) Decks based of the Kithros rogue deck were prevalent and actually worked because it feasted on all the decks made to deal with priests. Rogues were also relying heavily on now nerfed shattered sun and argent commander.

The fact remains, as the OP mentioned, there is a problem because you can not use your hero ability because of deadly poison, perditions' blade and assassin's blade.

My suggestion is that when a weapon is equipped that the power gives +1 attack for a turn but gives -1 durability at the end of your turn.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]