Epic Uther combos / Uther should be nerved

Posts: 2
So I posted this an hour ago on the EU forum, but think this might be a better place to start a discussion, so I'm posting this here again:

So here I go ranting about Uther. I myself enjoyed playing Uther at the start, since he's fun to play and fairly strong. But after a while I wanted to play the other classes and switched. So far so good.

Now what I've come to realize is that Uther is WAY overpowered, that overpowered indeed, that when I play random games, probably half the time I face Uther. This gets really tiring after a while.
Out of the last 20 games i have played, I had
1 Druid,
1 Shaman,
2 Hunters
2 Priests,
2 Rogues,
1 Warlock,
3 Warriors,
2 Mages,
and 8 Uthers
Ok, maybe I was just unlucky enough to keep getting Uther, but it seems to me that I see way more Uthers than 1/9 Games, and way fewer druids and shamans and warlocks than I'd like to see. I think if Hearthstone is to be successful, all classes should be played as often, to promote a diverse range of enemies you face.

And to make my point, let's see what kind of strategies I've run up against:

My go to card would be Redemption: Secret: When one of your minions dies, return it to life with 1 Health. Cost (1).
This card can single-handedly destroy entire boards. And it costs: 1. Are you serious?
Combine this with a card that has Enrage like Amani Berserker or the Raging Worden and here you go, after your enemy has used all his mana to kill it in one turn so you DONT have to fight it enraged, it will get revived and you will have to fight it... enraged. Splendid.

Or even better, Argent Commander and Sunwalker come with a nice Divine Shield, use them to kill an enemy, let them get sacrificed next turn (since they will be high priority to kill in the case of the Argent Commander, since it has only 2 Live, and Sunwalker has Taunt, so you can't really choose not to attack it) and hey, guess what? They return, with a handy Divine Shield in their back. Now let us inspect the damage you could do with that:
Imagine you have a Sunwalker on your side plus Redemption as a Secret.

Worst case scenario for the Paladin:
You just played your sunwalker and ended your turn. You are facing a Mage, that uses his skill to remove your Divine Shield, then plays fireball to destroy your Sunwalker. It gets revived with 1 HP and another Divine Shield. Great. So now the enemy will probably attack with a cheap creature to remove your Shield again and end up sacrificing another creature to get rid of your Sunwalker for good.
Count: 1 Entire enemy turn blown to bits for 1 Mana Cost of yours, 2 casualties + 1 Card.

Best case scenario for the Paladin:
Our enemy has 4 creatures. He did not attack your newly summoned Sunwalker, since he thought it'd be best to get rid of your other Taunt creatures. We assume it's late in game, so all his cards are fairly strong (conveniently, let's assume they're all 4/4). So all you have is your Sunwalker and the secret , all he has is his 4 creatures (you can see where this is going, right?). So you attack his first creature, destroying it, then end your turn. In the enemy turn he attacks your Sunwalker, thinking he can destroy it. But it gets revived, Divine Shield and all. Since your enemy doesn't hope to get a good card that would make the Sunwalker disappear next turn (since that would cost him 4 HP) he will have to attack with those two creatures aswell.
Netting you 4 destroyed creatures for your one, plus the Secret. In normal games, often enemies do not have 4 4/4 creatures, they rather have 4-5 3/2 or 2/3 creatures, so he will have to sacrifice his entire side, just to get rid of your creature.

Request: Make Redemption more expensive (Cost 2 or 3 would be appropriate) and upon revival, the Divine Shield should not be restored.

Next up: Blessing of Kings
Now whenever I have this card in my hands, my eyes start gleaming because I'm absolutely certain that this will wreak havoc. Because of the its low cost, you can play it fairly early in game. On turn 4 you can have a 3/3 ready for attack, giving you a possible 7/7 on your hands. Usually this is impossible to kill instantly so early in game, so you can easily tear up your enemy's entire defense. Leaving your enemy exposed, while you can build up your army.

Request: Either increase the cost, or lower the effect


Argent Squire + Blessing of Wisdom combo.
While Divine Shield is a great ability on it's own, it's doubly scary when combined with an ability where you gain something every turn.
Perfect start for a paladin would be to play argent squire on turn 1 and adding the blessing of wisdom on it on turn 2. Usually this will net you AT LEAST 2 cards. This is Way too strong in the early game in my opinion. You could even drop another Divine shield on top of that minion after its first attack, to make sure it will live to see turn 3, where you conveniently drop a taunt monster. Thanks, that'd be all I need, 3 cards advantage over the enemy is usually sufficient to overpower him, especially that early.

Request: Increase the cost of Blessing of Wisdom to 2.


Equality + Consecration Combo

Now while I've only had this happen to me 2 or 3 times, it was still one of the most annoying things to live through, when your enemy has 3 Minions and you have twice that many, so he simply changes all minions to 1, then plays consecration to destroy your entire side, no questions asked. And then merrily marches straight to your HP, since there's nothing from keeping him back anymore. And what can you do to prevent that? Nothing, unless you're playing Uther yourself and have a few creatures with Divine shields, (or possibly a Resurrection of your own).
Now I have no idea how to best go about this, but something should be done.
Request: Reimburse players' keyboards that get destroyed in frustration about this.

Last but not least: Argent Protector and Hand of Protection
Now I know this is getting old, but about that Divine Shield again... :D
Divine Shield is an insanely powerful spell, granting your already powerful monster an extra live, so giving it a free strike at destroying your enemy's most powerful creature.
In my opinion, again, those cards are not expensive enough. And I do understand that if we increase the cost of those cards as well, the Paladin has few choices left in what to play in the early game. That's why I have the following suggestion:

Request: Change the Spell they grant from Divine Shield to Immunity.
Immunity is an ability that is only used on 2 Epic Hunter and 1 epic Mage card. Why not use the Immune ability more often, since it's really a weakened form of the Divine Shield?
If we switch that ability, at least the player has to think about WHEN he plays those cards, instead of granting the shield that lasts indefinitely.

What do you guys think?
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Posts: 8
I think ur insane.. no kidding,I only play with my paladin, and I always need to worry about OP spells that kill every single minion that I spawn. Uther might be powerful, but he needs to be quite lucky , with freaking SILENCE, FREEZE, POLYMORPH. it is ridiculous play agaisnt a mage! Warlocks a, priest and druids are someway how more fair. And the rogue have so many ways to kill uther's minions. Dude, if there is one class OP, is the mage.
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Posts: 8
Plus Uther has no spells that cost 0, and he has really crappy ones that cost freaking 4 mana crystals. So I really disagree with you.
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Posts: 294
12/17/2013 07:09 PMPosted by AmadeusBR
Plus Uther has no spells that cost 0, and he has really crappy ones that cost freaking 4 mana crystals. So I really disagree with you.


Do list them all ( off the top of your head of course )
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Posts: 848
12/18/2013 01:18 AMPosted by Walnuts
Plus Uther has no spells that cost 0, and he has really crappy ones that cost freaking 4 mana crystals. So I really disagree with you.


Do list them all ( off the top of your head of course )


Hammer of Justice for example. Horrible card. You can get 3 damage and a freeze as a mage for 2 mana. you can get a 1/2 body, and a card draw as a neutral card for 2 mana. So 3 damage is not worth 2 mana, and draw a card is not worth 2 mana, but they put them together on a spell and made it cost 4.
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Posts: 11
Yeah I have to disagree with Uther being OP. Paladin has the worst spot removal by far, Hammer of Justice is a joke at 4 mana and consecration in just at useless most of the time. Also Paladin seems to be really vulnerable to silence as many of the buffs and divine shield are totally neutralized by oftentimes a 1 or 0 mana cost spell. If anything I think consecrate and hammer of justice need a buff.
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Posts: 48
Paladin is my probably my favorite class and I really don't think Paladins are OP but what are you all talking about with Hammer of Justice? First, there are no such cards. I guess you're talking about Hammer of Wrath then because it's a 4 mana? It's a pretty good card because it lets you one shot a 3 health minion AND draw a card. To say Paladin's 4 cost cards are horrible is just ridiculous.
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Posts: 516
Im a rank 4 paladin and i dont use :

Sunwalker
Argent commander
Argent Squire
Redemption
Blessing of kings
Sword of justice
Argent protector
Hand of protection
Blessing of wisdom

Hmmm ?
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Posts: 46
12/19/2013 01:57 AMPosted by Shin
Im a rank 4 paladin and i dont use :

Sunwalker
Argent commander
Argent Squire
Redemption
Blessing of kings
Sword of justice
Argent protector
Hand of protection
Blessing of wisdom

Hmmm ?


Can you show your decklist please?
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Posts: 8
thank you ;) imma updating my deck now, following your instructions. never thought of redemption + high-mama divine-shield minions.
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Posts: 119
This is silly, most high tier paladins rank paladins dont use blessings of wisdom, agent squire, argent protector and hand of protection.

The equality consecrate/avenging wrath combo is paladins best combo which if you lost to it instead of baiting it out with a strong card like Ragnaros other high legendary/strong card your fault for overextending.

Sunwalker is a strong card on its own as far as stand alone taunts its one of the best and yes the way you put it a combo like that with redemption sounds strong but if you actually think and use your head you'll realize if pally is playing secrets its probably redemption or noble sacrifice or repentance (as eye for an eye is pretty bad) 2 of which you can bait out first before killing the Sunwalker and if it is redemption you can spell damage kill a target they didn't want to redemption then kill the sunwalker or if its the only card on the field its probably his desperation move if its an aggro move you've probably already lost without it

The reason your seeing a lot of paladins right now is they're a safe and easy to understand class regardless of meta and since the mage nerf people are probably running aggro or pally till the waters settle.

Paladins right now are FAR from OP paladins have some strong mechanics but so do EVERY other class (maybe except hunters)
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Posts: 23
Let's first start talking about 2 mana spells like betrayal which wipe out your strongest board minions.

Or Bull!@#$ hilarious Ysera with the ridiculous dream cards.

Or Frog/Sheep which totally ignore all card effects and ruin every card. If they would atleast carry over the card effects.

And dont forget perma freeze Mage/(Rogue): I wipe your deck with perma freeze and spellpowered aoe stuff . Not sure why you cry about a combo with divine shield + secret which doesn't even work all the time.

Or ask Hunters with their supercheap Nukes/Spells.

Or just overloadnuke and wipe the entire board with shaman?

Divine shield is like the only thing which prevents paladins from instant dying.
Edited by liquidGG on 12/20/2013 2:22 AM PST
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Posts: 2
I do not believe enrage works with redemption as it returns the minion with one base health
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Posts: 1
It does work, I can confirm it
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Posts: 877


Next up: Blessing of Kings
Now whenever I have this card in my hands, my eyes start gleaming because I'm absolutely certain that this will wreak havoc. Because of the its low cost, you can play it fairly early in game. On turn 4 you can have a 3/3 ready for attack, giving you a possible 7/7 on your hands. Usually this is impossible to kill instantly so early in game, so you can easily tear up your enemy's entire defense. Leaving your enemy exposed, while you can build up your army.
[b]
about WHEN he plays those cards, instead of granting the shield that lasts indefinitely.

What do you guys think?


I think that most of the time I play kings it's immediately targeted and killed by poly/attacked and executed or some other method of taking control or destroying it. It's so easily counterable you should remove it from your list of things that make paladins op because it isn't even close to being at the top.
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