Having Trouble Playing Against Mages? Read

Posts: 599
12/20/2013 04:31 AMPosted by Sar

You've been told how the good players are beating mages. You can either copy it and win games or ignore it, lose, and keep coming to complain to the forums about no one knows how to beat mages.


Games shouldn't be balanced around .1% of players.
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Posts: 9
12/26/2013 01:05 PMPosted by BebopDeluxe
There are two problems with the Mage in constructed:
1) playing Mage requires little critical thinking.
2) playing against Mage allows little critical thinking.

There are MANY problems with the Mage in arena, direct damage spells are too versatile in that they double as removal and a win condition.


I don't agree with the first point. Playing as a mage against a variety of decks allows for a lot of different approaches since mages have a lot of versatility.

I do very much agree with the second point since playing against a mage, feels like playing in the blind most of the time.

I don't have a problem winning against mages, my win/loss ratio is probably about the same as any other class. But whether I'm losing or winning I have no clue about what I'm doing or how the game is progressing until about turn 6-8. It feels like a coin flip most of the time. This makes mages rather frustrating to play against.

I really don't understand the advice to go for early aggro decks. In my experience that's the worst possible approach, since low cost minions die easily to early aoe like, Arcane Explosion, Arcane missile, frost nova in combination with fire blast. I end up without cards or minions and at turn 8-10 the mage will simply fill the board and have no need for the dreaded pyroblast.
I have more luck with a controlled burn, keeping moderate minion pressure throughout the game to make aoe less effective.

My biggest issue with mages is that they are so versatile. An approach that works well against one mage may fail completely against another. And I usually wont know until the game is effectively over.
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Posts: 1,374
To respond to the strategies 1 by 1:

1. Warlock aggro deck - yeah, these are a direct coutner to....everything. Mur-Warlock is extremely strong (and horrible to play against for most decks). Generally, a mage is going to be in a better position to stomp your rush aggro deck than most classes, because of their frost nova, frost bolt, cone of cold - and the epic hero power stopping you from beating on them.

2. Big minions, big health...big unreliability. I agree their best option against mages is healing themselves like mad, and buffing their minions. Proper buffing against them to push your minions out of that '1 extra plink' of damage range could work wonders... but still very vulnerable to their strong burn cards.

3. I never really play one...so I'll refrain from talking about them. I hated the way rogue plays.

4. My druid deck focuses mostly on board clear, and isn't exactly the best suited against mages. I would think ideally you'd want to flood more creatures forcing him to focus on them, and possibly mix in the buff cards to keep them going through the hits.... not the style of my deck, but my deck is designed more for dealing with Murwarlock than with mage.

5. Shaman - I do play a shaman quite a bit... but the bottom line is overcharge seems to screw you over a lot against mages. It's very difficult to get anything to stay on the board, and the overcharge effect then means not only did you lose that round - but the next as well, during which the mage gets to take momentum. This is bad. The only thing I can think to do with shaman is focus on early game board clear and stack more big late game.... it'd be making yourself a less effective version of other decks though.

6. Hunters - I don't really play one. skipping it.

7. Paladins - have an excellent anti-mage toolkit. Divine shield isn't as terrific against mages because they can plink it off, but the minion buffs you get plus the heals makes for a good combo to keep things out of their kill range. That, and you can force out board clears by just pushing out some stupid 1/1 minions.

8. My warrior is a damage-your-own minions deck. It plays very weird against mages, and not all that well...too easy for them to burn my minions. Charge is the key to anti-mage for warriors, playing from the hand rather than the board... I agree with that for sure....and yeah, a couple of shield blocks would put a wrench in his pure burn strat if he's running that.

There... that's all of them. Basically.

Aside from all that... the mages I run into aren't playing a pure burn/delay strat. Expect Azure Drakes and legendaries - Ragnaros, spell power/reduced spell cost minions, card draw, and then the mixed in frosty board control. They will have 1 pyroblast so they can face-splat you late on, but that's just the finishing touch... it's the board control and card draw that win it.
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Posts: 1,244
This thread is: Sar + low IQ whiners...

Mages are not at the top of the food chain in constructed, and yet people whine about them.

Perhaps it means that most players are bad players? Well, it makes sense.
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Posts: 23
12/20/2013 04:31 AMPosted by Sar
I honestly expected this to say.

"Heal more nubs, git gud."

That seems to be your response in all these threads.


You've been told how the good players are beating mages. You can either copy it and win games or ignore it, lose, and keep coming to complain to the forums about no one knows how to beat mages.


Hey Protip how good players win vs. mages: hope for better carddraw or concede.

Stop bull!@#$ting over this mage %^-* just because you won 1 time because of heal.
It's random crap and you know it. What a waste of green colour
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Posts: 12,345


You've been told how the good players are beating mages. You can either copy it and win games or ignore it, lose, and keep coming to complain to the forums about no one knows how to beat mages.


Hey Protip how good players win vs. mages: hope for better carddraw or concede.

Stop bull!@#$ting over this mage %^-* just because you won 1 time because of heal.
It's random crap and you know it. What a waste of green colour


You may be surprised to hear this, but skilled players don't rely on RNG as their dominant strategy for winning games.

You've been told how good players are beating mages, and I'm actually nice enough to share this information with you free of charge, because I'm such a generous person. Anyway, from your inane dribble, I'm assuming you'd prefer to be one of the players who keeps getting beaten and then complains it's impossible, like a whiny child.
Edited by Sar on 1/2/2014 5:54 AM PST
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Posts: 23
No, it's just a 50/50 chance of either rolling him over or having no chance against the burn.
You never have the feeling of being able to outplay a Mage, it's all dependant on your and his carddraw.

And it happens the same to everybody else. Stop telling me people have high winchances against mages. Some decks may of course be better suited, but thats normal.
Also I don't care what Rank or ladder youre playing in, I play Legendary to Rank10 player depending on my own Ranking, so I know what people are doing and not.
I turn on twitch and see XY streamers getting either pyroblasted into obvlivion no matter what they do or they just crush the mage and make him look like a AI BOT.

Edit: tune in into Artosis Season1 Wrap up where 4 Legendary Player talk about how !@#$designed Mage is. /thread.
Edited by liquidGG on 1/2/2014 6:12 AM PST
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01/02/2014 06:01 AMPosted by liquidGG
Some decks may of course be better suited, but thats normal.


You mean like information this thread is conveying? I'm confused what you're whining about, the entire purpose of this thread was to inform people how to constructed a deck that, as you would put it, is "better suited" against a mage.

And you seem to be admitting that these decks exist, so I guess I'll accept that as being a thank you from you for my courtesy of making this thread.
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Posts: 29
Mage Spells are so unbalanced that they hardly have to field any minions to win the game.

Freeze freeze freeze, polymorth, 4 damage board wipe, fireball fireball pyroblast GG Bye bye.

No other class can make a deck with nearly no minions.

When I playing against a Mage it's like i'm playing a different game. Or more like watching somebody play a different game, cause i don't do much i just field minions so he can freeze em/blast'em.

Sure I can make a deck that is taylored exclusively to kill mages and it would work great, exept it would be garbadge against any other Hero or style.

Stop talking nonsense.
Edited by FMCorps on 1/2/2014 6:41 AM PST
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Posts: 129
01/02/2014 05:09 AMPosted by marsovac
This thread is: Sar + low IQ whiners...

Mages are not at the top of the food chain in constructed, and yet people whine about them.

Perhaps it means that most players are bad players? Well, it makes sense.


Except Sar is talking rubbish and has his minions biased mage playing players that think they are smart and working hard while playing mage.

Hey, I also play warlock murloc when I am not paladin, but I admit that THAT deck is dumb and op. Would be nice to see something like this from our friends playing mage.
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01/02/2014 06:34 AMPosted by FMCorps

Sure I can make a deck that is taylored exclusively to kill mages and it would work great, exept it would be garbadge against any other Hero or style.


This is incorrect though, and an excuse that a lot of people make. Yes, you COULD make a deck that's custom-tailored only to beat mage and is weak against everything else. You could do this for any class. You could also trade your Queen for a Pawn in chess; that doesn't make it a good move.

There are a MYRIAD of decks available, like the ones that I listed, that are consistent winners against mage and are still all-around strong and balanced decks. You can refuse to believe that if you want, but all that will happen is that you'll keep losing to mages and coming back to the forums to complain they can't be beaten while everyone around you is beating them. Not one of the decks listed is a deck designed to only beat mage.
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Posts: 418
Steps for recovering from auto pilot deck syndrome

step 1 - admit to yourself that mage decks are auto pilot

step 2 - calm down
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Posts: 29
You can refuse to believe that if you want, but all that will happen is that you'll keep losing to mages and coming back to the forums to complain they can't be beaten while everyone around you is beating them.


I'm just telling how it is. It's not rare for a mage to freeze the board 3-4 turns in a row, which basicaly means I don't get to play for 3-4 turns which is completely retarded. Trying to argue the contrary is stupid.

Also I dont lose that much to mages, not more than other classes really... Just sometimes I play em and It's more like i'm looking at them cause I'm not playing much.

Also I don't agree with the "myriad" of competitive decks. At this point every class has two or three competitive decks maybe even less. So you don't have that many options...

*****************************************************************************************

Anyways in a couple of weeks the Mage class will probably get a a good hit from the nerf hammer and you my green friend will then have too admit you were wrong all along.

Wanna bet?

PS : I can also bet that the hunter will get a boost if you prefer.
Edited by FMCorps on 1/2/2014 9:19 AM PST
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Posts: 12,345
01/02/2014 09:09 AMPosted by FMCorps
You can refuse to believe that if you want, but all that will happen is that you'll keep losing to mages and coming back to the forums to complain they can't be beaten while everyone around you is beating them.


I'm just telling how it is. It's not rare for a mage to freeze the board 3-4 turns in a row, which basicaly means I don't get to play for 3-4 turns which is completely retarded. Trying to argue the contrary is stupid.

Also I dont lose that much to mages , in fact I win more often cause most people use this dumb technique but never get the big "win" card they are waiting for. I just really get pissed when they freeze the board 3 turns in a row and then flamestrike it... It's just retarded.

Also I don't agree with the "myriad" of competitive decks. At this point every class has two or three competitive decks maybe even less. So you don't have that many options...


Even if it's only one viable deck per class, that's still 8 decks (and it's still more than that). That's far beyond the annoying and factually incorrect complaints of "There's only one deck in the world that can beat mages" and "I'd have to make a deck that can beat mages but no one else."


Anyways in a couple of weeks the Mage class will probably get a a good hit from the nerf hammer and you my green friend will then have too admit you were wrong all along.

Wanna bet?

I doubt mages will be changed, but even if they are, unless I see new statistics available, I'll have to say that even Blizzard can make mistakes. But I don't anticipate they will.

That being said, that's all tangential to this post, which is to explain to inexperienced players how to beat a deck that they don't understand how to play against.
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Posts: 418
01/02/2014 09:09 AMPosted by FMCorps
You can refuse to believe that if you want, but all that will happen is that you'll keep losing to mages and coming back to the forums to complain they can't be beaten while everyone around you is beating them.


I'm just telling how it is. It's not rare for a mage to freeze the board 3-4 turns in a row, which basicaly means I don't get to play for 3-4 turns which is completely retarded. Trying to argue the contrary is stupid.

Also I dont lose that much to mages, not more than other classes really... Just sometimes I play em and It's more like i'm looking at them cause I'm not playing much.

Also I don't agree with the "myriad" of competitive decks. At this point every class has two or three competitive decks maybe even less. So you don't have that many options...

*****************************************************************************************

Anyways in a couple of weeks the Mage class will probably get a a good hit from the nerf hammer and you my green friend will then have too admit you were wrong all along.

Wanna bet?

PS : I can also bet that the hunter will get a boost if you prefer.

+10 epics to you good sir
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 12,345
01/02/2014 09:09 AMPosted by FMCorps

PS : I can also bet that the hunter will get a boost if you prefer.


Um.... ok? Though I'm not sure what possible relation that has to a thread explaining how to beat mages.
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Posts: 6


You might be able to find an exact decklist on hearthpwn, basically, the anti-mage hunter variant uses literally almost no minions, instead using only cycling cards. The goal is get an Eaglehorn bow out as quick as possible (most mages don't run Acidic Swamp Oozes; if they eat your weapon, it'll be harder to win but still possible). Also run a few charge minions; Leeroy Jenkins is a good one, but you can work without him. Beyond that, run every secret other than Snake Trap. Your ENTIRE goal is to keep pumping as much damage directly into the mage as possible, while using traps to slow the mage's damage down. It gets to be a little close as once turn 8 comes around, the mage can obviously spike a lot of damage into you, but between the hero power, traps, and your direct damage cards, you can actually kill them before turn 7 (kind of surprising for a deck that's not even an aggro deck). Misdirection in particular is awesome if they try a giant drop on you.

One of the most important aspects is that on the turn that you're going to kill the mage, you need to Flare away his Ice Block. Don't do is sooner unless you have a second Flare in your hand, because if he has a second Ice Block, he'll just replace it. If you see 2 secrets, make sure to play some other spell first to eat the Counterspell, if that's what it is.

Anyway, the deck relies very little on minions for damage, other than minions that can charge in for a single hit. The mage will freeze / kill them in some way after they do their initial hit, but you have to think of them more as spells than as minions.


Thanks for the reply,

Sounds like a good plan once I will get the weapons as it it stands I do not have them yet, so you can see why I am having a hard time with mages, when not being able to get that much direct damage in :/

Will definetly try this out though when I get the cards.
Cheers
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Posts: 2
Yeah I get it:

1.) You post to each thread that reacts negatively to mages.

2.) Denounce and berate every one of them.

3.) Act like the proverbial "expert" and post links to your little strategies here.

As beta testers, we have a right to express whatever we feel that can be changed or corrected in this game. Blizzard can choose from these opinions on what can be done in order to create a well-developed product by the time it is released as a full game. Therefore, it is not up to people like you to decide on what other players think. You have an opinion, so do we. But you cannot quash others because we do not think like you, no matter how competent you are at this game. Not everyone here has to be a pro to play Hearthstone - some of us play for fun and with the friends we have.

What do you play for?
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Posts: 1,265
Posting in an epic thread.

Haha Sar.
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Posts: 226
2) Charge / weapons, which can't be frozen.


This is a falsehood. A mage can use a water elemental to freeze the hero and therefore not be able to use the weapon. I lost a game this when when the mage had 6 health and i was a warrior and had a 3/2 weapon out.
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