Having Trouble Playing Against Mages? Read

Posts: 591
It is the only class I consistently lose to... cant beat them unless i switch decks/classes. everything else its a matter of execution and luck with card draws that beat me but, I can get my perfect draw and play flawless and still get beat almost every time... and it seems the times I win my opponent makes a mistake and/or gets a pretty crappy draw to lose (usually no flamestrike) but even then they I rarely am able to pull it off.


Agree. I have the exact same problem playing against Mages. Maybe I win 20% of the time. I should really use that stat tracker I installed :o

Oh look, mana worm, and double taunts. GG. :/
Edited by GameZealot on 5/24/2014 6:31 PM PDT
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Posts: 1
Hello,

I disagree with this analyse (1st post).

The problem with mages do not come because of A combo, or 2-3 of thems. It simply comes because of the current mage's cards system. If you take a look at them, you see rapidly that they are very easy and simply balanced in terms of mana / damage ratio.
Examples : - Fireball 6 damage for 4 mana, best damage ratio in one card (Warrior need to be at 12 hp to reach this).
- Frostbolt 3 for 2 mana plus freez. Best early removall from all game in my opinion. It can be used early or against a big late minion to freez it (Deathwing for ex).
- If they strat to play +spells and you can't remove the minions immediatly... well, well, well...

Other problem : Flamestrike and Blizzard timer : As you said, you have to put everthing on board and rapidly beat the mage. I'm sorry? This is a card game. You cannot expect to have the needed cards to do it very often. Or you HAVE to play with a rush deck. So 1 class, mage, makes you construct an entire deck to counter it...

I do not think mages are actually 100 % OP, but they seems to do more with 1 card than the others can (flamestrike lol?). When i beat them, it's because of a good combo coming early, or because they do not have the good answere (unlucky : no sheep, no AOE (what? Yeah it happens)) - I'm speaking from 20 to 10 ranking -. For these reasons, they are better and have easier / better cards in their decks. Statistics of win can prove it.

Other part of the problem : the more you know the game, the more you will play because of "what you think he got in his hand". I would compare this situation with the Hunter : "you dont play too much minions because of Unleash the Hounds, but you cannot play only 1 big one or 2 because of Deadly shot and Multi shot"... So what do you do? Poker. Same with mages. And if you'r wrong just 1 time, your chances of loosing increase dramatically.

So i would say mages are just as the Yeti or the oger boulderfist. Not imba but you are never very pleased for this encounter, because you will have to play at 110% or more to get his 100% down.

PS : Sorry for the language.
Edited by Kassir on 7/1/2014 1:36 PM PDT
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Posts: 2,737
proc is the first moment you have, i stopped reading realizing the mvp was d-u-m-b

12/20/2013 12:14 AMPosted by Sar
proc is the first moment you can
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Posts: 1,345
All of the things Sar wrote last year still stand. I also want to remind you Pyroblast got hit with nerfbat in the meantime.
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Posts: 236
Charge / weapons, which can't be frozen.


I keep seeing this from MVP players, and I keep saying, weapons can be frozen. Water ele, or even a frostbolt to the player, they can be stopped.
Edited by themage78 on 7/3/2014 9:37 PM PDT
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Posts: 79
12/20/2013 12:14 AMPosted by Sar
a major key to remember is that the Mage cannot freeze, cast Ice Block, or aoe your board on the same turn they drop Alexstraza.


Challenge accepted.
Turn X: Sorcerer's Apprentice - Ice block.
Die. Shield.
Turn X+1: Use saved The Coin. Ice Block. Alexstrasza.

"Nature will rise up against you!"
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Posts: 1,685
All of these things remain a completely moot point.

Alex + face damage still = win, and it's still completely dependant on what the mage draws.

Add to that the doomsayer, and the mage can epicly board clear you in addition to the freezes, regardless of your high health minions.

For example, I just lost a match to a mage. On turn 7, my druid had out a 4/5 yeti, a 5/10 tree, a 4/6 cat, and a 5/5 ancient of lore. 4 nice fat creatures. My opponent had gone through both mirror images to keep me at bay to that point, as well as both mage armors - he had 23 life, 2 armor. (Read: He'd taken 21 damage).

On turn 8, frost nova, doomsayer. I had the misfortune of not drawing either silence. With my epic options to counter the 'you lose everything unless he gets epicly unlucky' board clear, I hero power and sit on my hands. It's all downhill from there... I play both ancients of lore for heals, never draw my bgh to counter alex, and in 3 turns later it's death.

Bottom line is... freeze is still a broken op'd mechanic that lets the mage have epic board control for a measly 3 mana.
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Posts: 494
Is whining about a mage still a thing? I have left the class for a while, playing spelldamage rogue, handlock, and tempo priest. I very, very rarely feel threatened by a mage.
Does no one play hard removal? I just keep reading about how creature diarrhea doesnt work out.

Early aggression doesn't mean you play like a zoolock and throw everything onto the board. It just means you actively keep the board clear and go for the face. Also, mage card draw sucks, which is why they need their spells to make bank.
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Posts: 3,673
12/20/2013 06:06 AMPosted by Sar
12/20/2013 05:49 AMPosted by PrenerfMorde
I think the best thing about a Mage is you both have to play aggressive to keep up with their extreme control, and you have to run a ton of heals to keep up with their burn. So from there you have healing minions not meshing correctly with your aggro tempo, and vice versa.

It's a card game, so something going to always be blatantly overpowered and overused, but just repeating "just run heals get gud :^) " doesn't really justify the Mage's power at all.


P.S. I want to add that I keep responding with healing because people consistently keep saying "There's no counter to direct damage in this game other than Counterspell, which is ironically a Mage spell." My point is that's factually not true. They keep thinking that just because you can't stop the spell itself that you can't counter it, but you can counter a Pyroblast by healing it, and healing it is substantially cheaper than the cost of the spell. So no, what they're saying is wrong; you CAN counter cards like Pyroblast.


How many cards does it take to heal past a Pyroblast, and how many cards would it take to just counter it if it was like a normal TCG that actually had counter spells.
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Posts: 23
Silence is your friend. (can use it to unfreeze your own minion to free up to attack).
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Posts: 1,159
Sorry for the necro, but rather this than a completely new topic to vent a bit.

As for the OP, I run Tempo Rogue, so the most I can heal is +3 twice if I get lucky and pull both my Farseers. That's it. I also won't know who I will be playing against, so sadly I can't swap to an aggro deck as soon as I see a mage.

But, the point is not that. It's not even that I lose games. I understand that I am nowhere near to be a pro player, I understand that Tempo Rogue nowadays can't go far on the Ladder and I also understand that I can't win every single game.

I don't mind losing if it's because I made one or more obvious mistakes, if the opponent outplayed me or even if the opponent had a little bit more luck than I did. What really infuriates me though is that I lose 9 games out of 10 against Freeze mages and there is nothing I can do about it. I wouldn't mind it if it would be because they play so well, but it's always the same way: I maintain board control and most of the time I have card advantage. I eliminate Alex without issues. I take out the Ice Blocks/Barriers. I have lethal next turn. Then, the turn I die to the silly Pyroblast always finds my end of the board with 3 minions, at least 1 Taunt. I can't help but feel cheated. I feel like I fought well, I have a stable position, but then the Problast just goes through everything and secures an undeserved win for the opponent.

Yes, I know direct damage spells ignore Taunts, and yes I know that every class has direct damage spells. I think it's a design flaw though that direct damage spells can ignore Taunts. They shouldn't. I shouldn't be able to use Deadly Poison on my blades, then double Eviscerate to the face for 4 mana, causing 8 damage to the opponent, who is sitting behind three Taunts. I feel cheap. Of course I will do it for the win, but it just doesn't feel right.
In addition, this "flaw" is the one that makes the "Deal X damage to the enemy hero" cards even more useless. If direct damage could not ignore Taunts, these other cards could still net you the win.

That's how I feel.
Edited by Aidames on 9/22/2014 3:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 2,785
^^ Dude, every deck has it's bad matchups. My secrets deck doesn't do well against zoo if they go first and flood the board with low cost / high damage minions that deathrattle MORE minions out. I've lost games in under 6 turns while holding a blizzard. It happens.

I think that this thread is filled with:

1. newbies that need to L2P

2. players whose decks are bad matchups against mage.
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Posts: 1,159
I know that and I can accept that. The difference is (at least for me), that the other decks I don't do so good against usually just overwhelm me or it's obvious that I simply don't have the answers for the cards that deck has.

But, with Freeze Mage, it's quite the opposite. I feel like it's going good, I have everything I need to win, but no, direct damage kills me in the end 90% of the time. When they don't pull Pyroblast though, I can finish them off without much effort. I don't even think it's their fault, I think it's the problem with how direct damage is handled, but it comes out the sharpest in a Freeze Mage deck.
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Posts: 969
09/23/2014 09:22 AMPosted by Aidames
I know that and I can accept that. The difference is (at least for me), that the other decks I don't do so good against usually just overwhelm me or it's obvious that I simply don't have the answers for the cards that deck has.

But, with Freeze Mage, it's quite the opposite. I feel like it's going good, I have everything I need to win, but no, direct damage kills me in the end 90% of the time. When they don't pull Pyroblast though, I can finish them off without much effort. I don't even think it's their fault, I think it's the problem with how direct damage is handled, but it comes out the sharpest in a Freeze Mage deck.


It's because Freeze mages don't care about the state of the board. You might think you're winning, but chances are it just means that the mage got his "exodia pieces" early (or burn pieces), and because of that, he wasn't able to play any control, making you think that you were winning while you aren't.

Freeze mages only care about the amount of card they draw and your life total(and not dieing). your board.

Freeze mage is a deck I'd call extreme that has very good match-ups (against rogues in general, against warlock) and some very bad match-ups (anything with heal, really, besides handlock because they hurt themselves more than they heal).
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Posts: 1
Besides all the mage jerking. What to do about getting into the game from the start and not having any cards to counter this OP...and i mean RIDICULOUSLY OP class. Wasn't WoW enough of a mage blowing match. Also why isn't the mage hero ability forced to attack taunts and the Druid is? The mages need a nerf bad, but just like in WoW they will probably never get one that is worth a crap. Stoped playing WoW 2 years ago and about to stop playing Hearthstone because all the BS of OP mages. Downloaded the game and was talking to my wife about maybe this game mages aren't OP as crap. Nope wrong again. Hey Blizz i have an idea quit playing favorites to all you tools fave class. You have lost 7 WoW players (that i know personally) and i don't know how many Hearthstone players to mage BS. Sounds like bad business practices to me. Getting $2,000,000,000 a year from WoW alone and you still don't give a crap about the player just your pocket. Pity... the arrogance is sickening.
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Posts: 6
Thanks for shaman tips.
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Posts: 1,814
Mage is the absolute best starting class, with access to Frost Bolt, Fireball, Polymorph and Flame Strike all in the basic set and Flamecannon as a craftable common. They also work exceptionally well with Mechs, a cheap engine that can compete at many levels of play.

I suspect though, if their core removal spells were made into rares or worse, mage would be called underpowered, just like Shaman.
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Posts: 1,496
the way pros 'beat' mages is to ban them in tourneys. why isnt there a ban feature in ladder?
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Posts: 1,025
Stop necroing skeleton threads for gods sake!!!
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