Pally Hero Power

Posts: 271
I've been main decking a pally for a little while now, I casually play ranked, usually only in coordination with a quest, so I maybe play 3-4 ranked games a day. I'm rank 13 and seem to climb a rank now every 1 - 2 days. But I'm not new to constructed play.

This post is about the paladin's hero "power", or lack thereof.

I used to think it was an ok power, not the best, not the worst. Over the course of the last 3 weeks, I believe now that it is the worst hero power out of all the classes.

It's terribly, terribly ineffective for the mana cost, and does not have huge synergy with overall pally strategies. I'm not saying there is no synergy, but overall not much. To frame it in some perspective, wisp is a 0 mana cost 1/1 minion.

So what can be done to improve it just a bit, make it more inline with other hero abilities in terms of strength. I have been thinking about it for a while and run into a few solutions.

One, would be a change to the 1/1 minion's text flavor in some fashion. In essence give it something that works in synergy with other minions or other 1/1 hero power summons. Ex. Summon 1/1, +0/+1 if another silver hand recruit is on the board. This is just an example.

Two, would be a change to the minion itself. I think 1/2 would be too powerful, however 2/1 would not be terrible.

Three, would be a change to the hero power itself. Ex. Give a minion divine shield. Ex. Give a minion divine shield for 1 turn. Ex. Grant a minion +1/+1 Ex. Grant a minion +2/+0 etc.

Four, would be a few more blessing type cards introduced to help synergy. Ex. 1 mana +1/+1 to a minion. Ex. +0/+1 plus divine shield.
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Posts: 7,481
It is exactly in line with all the other hero powers. You get 2 points of stats for 2 points of cost. The only exception in the game is the mage, who gets 1 point of stats for 2 mana, but has the most flexible hero power.
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Posts: 31
Now compare it to shamans hero power..
and the ability to give a divine shield would be way too powerful
Edited by Defcon on 12/18/2013 4:19 PM PST
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Posts: 410
You also arent taking into concideration that its a FREE minion, you can buff it without having to put down a card. Specially with the pally deck the way it is so many buffs. There are those other decks that cant remove it right away. So it can become quite strong. I disagree I think the pally power is fine the way it is. Adding a shield would be rediculously op, and way out of balance.

One hero power bugs me the warlock one. It seems they have the downside to this... ( sorta ) taking 2 dmg to draw a card seems kinda unfair. Eh... I would like to see that power changed, who knows =)

Happy Holidays!

Sylphy.

~NM <3 K <3 MH~
Edited by Sylphea on 12/18/2013 4:25 PM PST
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Posts: 271
I was just giving examples, I'm not saying exclusively it has to be one or another, don't cherry pick one example, I gave many.

In comparison to a shaman, 3 of the 4 totems summoned have 3 stat points, 0/2 plus an ability, so it's not a great comparison for the point you were trying to make
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Posts: 271
It's not a free minion, it costs 2 mana. Every hero has a power, that does not require a card to support it, Pally is no different from other heros in that regard.
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Posts: 562
12/18/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Cygnus
I believe now that it is the worst hero power out of all the classes.

Warrior and hunter say hi.
Their powers are the worst in the sense that they don't affect the field in any way, warrior's power is only usefull when you are loosing, to MAYBE make you don't die on the next turn, in fact, if it wasn't for the weapons and the fact the warrior takes so much damage this power would have been chaged already.
Hunter is the same thing, but it doesn't even help you survive to draw another card or stall the game ultill you have an answer, you just die, its a win more power and even if you reduce your oponents LP to 1, it will have been useless the entire game unless you can finish him.

Paladin power is free advange, FREE advantage in terms of cards, its a 1/1, that can be buffed by the gazzilon diferent buff cards paladins have, it has tremenduous sinergy with cards like swords of justice, knife jugler or equality and they mean that buff mimions are aways live.
Your comparision to wisp is also stupid, wisp costs a card, you have to draw it, and you can't run more than 2. While the hero power is avaliable every turn, and gives you a free +1 in question of card advantage. Its better than the mage's power in some ways because it gives you a creature, if it lives it can trade, hit your face again and again, be buffed, or be used to trigger something else, if he gets removed, he was free advantage anyway, you didn't loose anything, in fact if the opp used a card it is a win for you.

12/18/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Cygnus
Give a minion divine shield. Ex. Give a minion divine shield for 1 turn. Ex. Grant a minion +1/+1 Ex. Grant a minion +2/+0 etc.


Of all your ideas this one is just terrible, do you have any idea how HUGE would be, to aways, every single turn, have one of you minions INVULNERABLE to being damaged in a trade? And if it isn't damaged he keeps the shield and then you can buff another one, and another, untill your whole field is shielded and can't be destroyed unless the opp wastes two board wipes, and that power being FREE in terms of advantage?

EDIT:
Also, +1/+1 will mean every trade will be in pallys favour, you can use it to avoid stuff dyieng or to make a cheap creature kill a stronger one, and it keeps stacking so you can keep buffing, and if they waste a silence on it, you just went +1 for them wasting a card on something that was free for you.
12/18/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Cygnus
In comparison to a shaman, 3 of the 4 totems summoned have 3 stat points, 0/2 plus an ability, so it's not a great comparison for the point you were trying to make

Shamans totens can't atack, they can't deal damage and will aways be killed without doing anything unless the shaman can buff it, and then you can't complaing because pallys also have a ton of more powerfull buffs than the shaman.
Thei power is also random, its unrealiable meaning you can't count on it in a pinch, you also can't have more than a single of each totem, meaning the limit is 4 unless you do something fancy with a brewmaster.
Its another free advantage, all hero powers are in some way, but this one is random and won't affect the board unless under specific conditions (damaged mimions to heal, spellpower or taunt when the enemy has no way to bypass it and hit your flametongues)
Edited by Xipachu on 12/18/2013 4:40 PM PST
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12/18/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Cygnus
I was just giving examples, I'm not saying exclusively it has to be one or another, don't cherry pick one example, I gave many.

In comparison to a shaman, 3 of the 4 totems summoned have 3 stat points, 0/2 plus an ability, so it's not a great comparison for the point you were trying to make


2 stat points. The 1 ability is the result of randomness. The randomness of the ability makes it permissible to add additional value to the totems because they cannot guarantee they get the one they want or need. They can manipulate the scenario such that any totem will do, but that does require skill and deck construction. The paladin power is guaranteed- and the Paladin has much, much more and much, much stronger buffs- so the ability to summon a guaranteed 1/1 makes it equivalent in the aggregate to the Shaman hero power.
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Posts: 23,193
Please buff one of the best hero powers, please.

......

People....
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Posts: 1,776
Did you ever try other heroes?
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Posts: 271
Elen,

Sorry but the ability is part of the sum equation to 3. It's a corner stone of how they craft the cards. Just because its random, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Your example is still poor.

Xip,

Please reread, the example would be for a 1 turn duration. So you couldn't stack the shields and would not carry over to the next round. More specifically I should have said, "your" turn, so in essence 1/2 of a full turn.

Warrior power is in tune to overall warrior strategies as with the use of weapons, armor is significant.

Hunter power is not bad in and of itself, I think it lacks synergy, but it's ability to be untauntable 2 damage is pretty decent.

Again if you all read the entire post, these are just examples. I'm not saying its needs to change to a specific idea, they are just ideas.
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Posts: 271
Yes I have a decent deck for every hero.
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Posts: 1,097
It is a free minion, in the fact that it doesn't affect card advantage on your side.
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Posts: 7,481
12/18/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Cygnus
Elen,

Sorry but the ability is part of the sum equation to 3. It's a corner stone of how they craft the cards. Just because its random, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Your example is still poor.


No, but it does mean that you can only count on 2 points of value. That 3rd point can wind up being completely and utterly useless- and if you can't get any use out of that 3rd point, 3 out of the 4 totems can wind up being entirely worthless bricks that your opponent can ignore to kill you. So you will in the very, very, very long run wind up with an average of more than 2 points of value out of each totem, but not much more.
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Posts: 1,664
Paladin hero power is strong because it's essentially a free card that you can buff or trade off with for your opponent's real card. Think about it like this, it's 2 mana for one damage to your opponent's hero or minion, assuming it isn't killed. That's pretty much the Mage hero power but mages can't buff their hero power.
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Posts: 271
Useless or not, it depends on a number of things. They designed them to have 3 pts of value and one that has 2. I didn't create the system, I'm just explaining the thought process.

Every hero power has closer to 3 pts of value so to speak, roughly! Roughly!

Druid - summon a 1/1 weapon for 1 turn, gain 1 armor (not bound to 30 health pool)
Shammy - discussed above
Rogue - summon a 1/2 weapon
Hunter- 2 pts direct hero damage + untauntable
Warrior - 2 pts armor + not bound to 30h pool
Mage- 1 point of damage anywhere (including your own)
Warlock - 1 draw at the cost of 2 life (must have the life cost due to how powerful draw is)
Priest - 2 health to any character - also able to be converted to 2 damage to any character

Just in my own rank, I have pally at the lowest of all the powers.
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Posts: 7,481
12/18/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Cygnus
Useless or not, it depends on a number of things. They designed them to have 3 pts of value and one that has 2. I didn't create the system, I'm just explaining the thought process.

Every hero power has closer to 3 pts of value so to speak, roughly! Roughly!

Druid - summon a 1/1 weapon for 1 turn, gain 1 armor (not bound to 30 health pool)
Shammy - discussed above
Rogue - summon a 1/2 weapon
Hunter- 2 pts direct hero damage + untauntable
Warrior - 2 pts armor + not bound to 30h pool
Mage- 1 point of damage anywhere (including your own)
Warlock - 1 draw at the cost of 2 life (must have the life cost due to how powerful draw is)
Priest - 2 health to any character - also able to be converted to 2 damage to any character

Just in my own rank, I have pally at the lowest of all the powers.


And an equal number of equally skilled, equally informed, equally ranked people have pally as the highest; many calls can be found on the forum for it to be nerfed. The disagreement among the well informed and reasonable implies that the power is reasonably well balanced. No sort of consensus or statistical analysis has emerged that gives much weight to the idea that it is one of the worst.
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Posts: 562
12/18/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Cygnus
Please reread, the example would be for a 1 turn duration. So you couldn't stack the shields and would not carry over to the next round. More specifically I should have said, "your" turn, so in essence 1/2 of a full turn.


That still makes no diference, you can still make that minion INVULNERABLE for a turn, do you have any idea how this can be abused? Frost elemental, emperor cobra, every charge minion there is and I am sure there is a !@#$load of more cards that will end up nerfed to keep the hero power like it. Same thing with +2 or +1/+1, if you use the buff to trade a weaker minion the fact it only lasts a turn didn't matter, if it survived, it basicaly gave you 2 free damage, better than a mage, or reduced in 1 the damage you take.

12/18/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Cygnus
Warrior power is in tune to overall warrior strategies as with the use of weapons, armor is significant.

It still doesn't affect the board, it just makes you kill yourself slower from hitting to many stuff with your axes, the only reason it didn't get changed yet is because warriros rely on som many weapons.

12/18/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Cygnus
Hunter power is not bad in and of itself, I think it lacks synergy, but it's ability to be untauntable 2 damage is pretty decent.


Its not bad, its terrible, in all games you lost it end up being useless because the 2 damage didn't help you anyway, in fact it may have helped you loose by giving the oponent cheaper giants and stuff, its hard countered by priests and warriors powers, and pallys have a ton of ways to heal thenselfs, 2 damage may seem constant but it still takes 15 turns to kill the op and thats reserving 2 mana to NOT affect the field and get rid of the opponent.

I read your entire post a few times actualy, your arguments are terrible and you examples are even worse, the pally has one of THE best hero powers, the only one that can be considered better is the warlock, because it gives you a free card, but that power has limitations.
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Posts: 271
Elendil,

I agree with that. There is never much of a consensus unless things are obviously op, and even then there are disagreements.

I can see fully both sides of the argument, and appreciate discourse to flaming, so thank you in that respect.

I guess, personally for me, as it exists right now, spending two mana on my hero power as a pally is usually the last resort, or I have 0 options in my hand. I'm not sure if I can say the same for other hero powers, and maybe more often than not the same holds true.
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Posts: 230
12/18/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Cygnus
It's terribly, terribly ineffective for the mana cost, and does not have huge synergy with overall pally strategies.
Pally strategy = buffs. An extra minion would be perfect. Countless times where I Kings a Recruit and Shield it and it's 3 for 2 or even 4 for 2.

12/18/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Cygnus
To frame it in some perspective, wisp is a 0 mana cost 1/1 minion.
Moonfire is a 0 cost 1 damage anywhere
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