How is fireball/pyro fair/fun cards to playVS

Posts: 3
This is not really a complaning about op class gg fix plz lol blizz kind of thread.

I just dont really understand how fireball/pyro are fair cards? Both in constructed and arena.

You play a game against a mage, you trade creatures to your favor. Play around secrets, try to get an advantage on the board/cards in hand so on. Like vs any other class. Okay mage have very efficent board sweepers but even if u manage to survive that. You sit at 20+ life with a very comfertable board 3-4 creatures to none, more cards etc. But STILL you just get blown up by pyro and fireball... some freeze spells to make sure u cant attack again. And then just ping you with fireblast for the rest. gg...

How is this fair? How is this FUN? How can you play around this? You can do nothing at all. with 4 cards that deal a total of 32 DIRECT unstoppable damage! as a BASE most mages play cheap +spelldamage on top of that.

Im all for powerfull class spells, but these direct damage spells are too powerfull...

65-75% of all decks in constructed as u get a bit higher are all mage decks.

Your thought on the current state of mages, idears to change them without destroying the flavor?.

Maybe change fireball from 6 to 5 damage still the nice cc at 4. And pyro should not deal direct damage, not 10 not 9 not 8. It should have an effect that would instantly kill any creature, (and maybe the blast would damage adjecent creatures for 1?) and if used on a player, maybe it would deal 50% of their current life as damage? so if ure at 20, it did 10 but at 10 only 5. And it diden't recieve bonus from +spell damage??

-Sry for the poor english, i wrote this in a bit of a hurry. :)
Reply Quote
Posts: 46
How is it NOT fun to play against it?

Note: I totally agree about having more than 2 copies of some spells in arena is ridicoulous, examples are fireball, shadow words, northshire clerics etc.

Talking about constructed: mage's main cards are very well known. It is able to deal a lot of direct damage. It was able to stall a lot with freeze, now that it sucks he can't enymore because the real problem wasn't fixed: ice block.

Now, how isn't it possible for you to adapt your playstyle when playing against a mage so that you outplay it and get satisfied by your skilled play? Isn't it beautiful when you force that mage to waste his fireball on your creature because you are forcing too much pressure and you know you have most likely won? Aren't you happy when you successfully rush him before turn 8 so that he can't spend turn 8 nor 9 pyroing you cause he would lose instead?

If those are not the cases, i recommend you to not spend money in this game because the satisfaction coming from an outplay is THE ONLY THING this game is about. The feeling when you bait their hex to play your Tirion, when you survive that pyro with few hp you fought for and drop your Alexzastra, the turn 5 win with your enraged worgen on warrior.

Think about it: you wouldn't play long if what the game is for you is building an imba deck and win 80% of the games. Mage isn't even the strongest class at the moment. It is probably rank 5. What will you say when you climb and starta seeing warlocks dropping double imp on turn 1 meaning autoloss for you?

On a final note i think the main source of problems for players against mages is ice block. That is flat out a stupid card. I hope with time freeze nerfs will be reverted and ice block removed or something like that. I can totally see the frustration coming from an ice block ---> pyro play. that one really doesn't require any skill.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3
It is extremely frustrating playing against mages, I will admit that, but I was giving it hard thought the other day and I feel the main issue is not having ways to "prevent" the damage of spells.

Mages are getting the most of the flack because they have the most direct damage spells of all the classes, but I think the issues lay in the way spells are designed in general. Other card games allow instant cards to be played during your opponents turn which allows you to react to the opponents spells. Currently the only way to "counter"mages spells is to try establish dominating board control and force him to use his big hitting abilities to clear them.

This isn't possible most times due to:
1. the issue that most mages are running early agro to get enough damage to allow their spells to finish you off. Establishing board control is only possible if you run an equally agro deck (this isn't taking his AOE clear into count). If you try for a mid / late game deck, by the time you get your heavy taunts and hard hitting creatures up, you are most likely low enough to be finished off with spells.

2. The amount of board clear / control they have makes it incredibly hard to establish enough board control to force them to use their big hitting abilities on them.

3. You are lucky if you can get 2 big creatures out before 8 mana, and then mages have answers for that that doesn't require them to use their big hitting abilities (if they are fortunate enough to have those cards, such as pollymorph, in their hand, which mine always do >_>)

My suggestions:

1. Introduce creatures with the ability "Spell taunt". The simple idea is that these creatures work the same way as taunt does for normal attacks. These creatures should have low stats, and would need to be protected to be safe from creature attacks.

2. Introduce "Spell wards". These are similar to totems in design. They have stats similar to totems, and are immune to spell damage below a certain amount, "Lets say for example 2 or 3 damage" and attract all spells their way. Or make them immune to AOE clear and allow them to block 1 spell (ignore mage class ability).

I haven't thought much on the possible mechanics of the above, but my intention is to possibly spark a better idea through my suggestions.

What do you guys think?
Reply Quote
Posts: 214
How are warlocks spaming 2-3 mobs every turn fun to play against?
How are druid dominating the control decks fun to play against?
How is paladin's healing fun to play against?
How is warrior's alextrazsa charge gorehowl fun to play against?
How is priest's thoughsteal fun to play against?
How is shaman's bloodlust and earth elemental's fun to play against?
How is rogue's aggro deck fun to play against?
Want more u damn scrub?
Reply Quote
Posts: 41
Mages are a class built around direct damage, Thing is though mages are prone to rush down and board control early game. I've been beat many times by a hunter whos got early board control advantage and i've not pulled a flamestrike.

You've got to remember that these spells cost a fair amount of mana to use, Fireball being 4 mana but is often used as board clear against big scary creeps, and most mages don't roll 2 pyroblasts, infact you'll find it extremely rare mages carry more than one at any time due to pyroblast basically being 'skip this turn' as is flamestrike.

Generally Flamestrike and Pyroblast are last restort choices for mages, The best way to go around it is before turn 7 make sure his/her board is clear and you have some creeps over 4 health, as for pyroblast if you pack 1-2 healing cards in your deck you can normally neglect the direct damage as 10 health is roughly 3-5 mana in terms of cards whereas 10 damage is 8 mana.
Reply Quote
Posts: 740
12/24/2013 12:44 AMPosted by BrickTamland
1. Introduce creatures with the ability "Spell taunt". The simple idea is that these creatures work the same way as taunt does for normal attacks. These creatures should have low stats, and would need to be protected to be safe from creature attacks.

Great, make sure it works for all spells from all classes. So will also taunt heals, buffs etc and you have a deal? Oh, no now it'll affect YOUR class, I'm sure you don't want it, right? Heh!

2. Introduce "Spell wards". These are similar to totems in design. They have stats similar to totems, and are immune to spell damage below a certain amount, "Lets say for example 2 or 3 damage" and attract all spells their way. Or make them immune to AOE clear and allow them to block 1 spell (ignore mage class ability).

So you obviously play a Shamen, and you want to be able to have a special ability to become immune to mage spells. Yeah that sounds really balanced, and won't affect the game at all. Here's one - I want an ability to instantly remove all totems, for 1 mana, each time I cast my hero power. Is that ok with you? No?

I haven't thought much on the possible mechanics of the above, but my intention is to possibly spark a better idea through my suggestions.

What do you guys think?


I think the only thing you got right there was that you haven't thought much about what you just wrote.
Reply Quote
Posts: 98
12/23/2013 03:10 PMPosted by Forup

65-75% of all decks in constructed as u get a bit higher are all mage decks.


I would say that 2 out of 3 decks, in the higher range right now are warlock decks. I think people playing ranked would agree. I've been playing from 13 to 9 the past week and I would say its Warlocks, Palis, Druids/Mages, Rogues in that order(Approximately of coarse).
Edited by Levi on 12/24/2013 1:16 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 36
@Gohanitos. I agree 100% about that last post of yours! I have played CCGs for roughly 20 years and I have heard this type of complaint/etc so many times. It always leads back to two little ideas. One: If you don't like how dirty something is that is wrecking you, make something more dirty to counter--then win.
Two: Change your play style up to confound other players. This has worked so well for me in tourneys/etc that other players are usually excited to play against me.

You have got the right of it, too many people complaining about how unfun something is because of poor play mistakes or the like. It makes those of us who like the challenge grit our teeth and drive on.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3
Scerion, if you read my post, I mentioned that this should affect ALL spells. Let me quote it incase you missed it:

I feel the main issue is not having ways to "prevent" the damage of spells.


This would apply to ALL classes, and not just mages.

Just because I said the following:

These are similar to totems in design.


Does NOT mean it is the SAME as totems (AKA only for Shamans). Similar != Same
This just means they have the same DESIGN in them (no dmg, low health) and can be played by ANY class.

My point wasn't aimed at Mages, it was aimed at spells. Mages just have the most spell damage and are receiving most flak for it. Not every class can run heal to counter it.

Rather read and fully understand my post before personally attacking me. I would rather you attack my points and not me.
Reply Quote
MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 12,345
Read this

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/10973087435
Reply Quote
Posts: 324
12/29/2013 11:31 PMPosted by BrickTamland
This just means they have the same DESIGN in them (no dmg, low health) and can be played by ANY class.


want me to tell you why they will never add a spell taunt to this game in its' current form?

because they would be mandatory cards to have in every deck, which is bad game design.
Reply Quote
MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 12,345
12/30/2013 03:40 AMPosted by Rogoth01
This just means they have the same DESIGN in them (no dmg, low health) and can be played by ANY class.


want me to tell you why they will never add a spell taunt to this game in its' current form?

because they would be mandatory cards to have in every deck, which is bad game design.


I could foresee a spell taunting mechanic at some point in the future. But as it stands now, for an opening set, HS has plenty of mechanics. Also, the game is pretty well balanced right now. Any changes like adding these types of cards would inherently imbalance the game (since some classes obviously would be affected more than others) and would require tweaking a bunch of cards in order to make the classes balanced again. That's a bad idea at this point and would be better reserved for a future expansion.
Reply Quote
Posts: 74
The biggest problem I have with mages is they have card draw that combos. I think mages would be better balanced if Arcane Intellect swapped places with Sprint, costing 7 mana for 3 cards.

As it stands they can pretty much rely on having all the control cards they need in hand to keep you at bay until they have all the stuff out on the board to kill you. It's very frustrating to have all your minions unable to clear them out while they play all sorts of spellpower minions.
Reply Quote
Posts: 15
I think they shouldn't overreact on the changes, I think a simple change that would go a long way is make pyroblast a legendary card so it is reduced to one per deck
Reply Quote
MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 12,345
12/30/2013 09:08 AMPosted by AngusPrune
The biggest problem I have with mages is they have card draw that combos. I think mages would be better balanced if Arcane Intellect swapped places with Sprint, costing 7 mana for 3 cards.

As it stands they can pretty much rely on having all the control cards they need in hand to keep you at bay until they have all the stuff out on the board to kill you. It's very frustrating to have all your minions unable to clear them out while they play all sorts of spellpower minions.


Draw power is probably mage's weakest aspect at the moment.
Reply Quote
Posts: 108
12/24/2013 04:13 AMPosted by Gohanitos
How are warlocks spaming 2-3 mobs every turn fun to play against?
How are druid dominating the control decks fun to play against?
How is paladin's healing fun to play against?
How is warrior's alextrazsa charge gorehowl fun to play against?
How is priest's thoughsteal fun to play against?
How is shaman's bloodlust and earth elemental's fun to play against?
How is rogue's aggro deck fun to play against?
Want more u damn scrub?


Lol thoughtsteal. That doesn't even cost you the game. Earth elemental's? Yeah overload so you can't do anything next turn.
Reply Quote
Posts: 740
12/29/2013 11:31 PMPosted by BrickTamland
Scerion, if you read my post, I mentioned that this should affect ALL spells. Let me quote it incase you missed it:

I feel the main issue is not having ways to "prevent" the damage of spells.


This would apply to ALL classes, and not just mages.

Please read your own post, you specifically mentioned mages numerous times, you mentioned mage spells specifically, and you're posting the mage forum. You're clearly talking about mages.

Stop being stupid.
Just because I said the following:

These are similar to totems in design.


Does NOT mean it is the SAME as totems (AKA only for Shamans). Similar != Same
This just means they have the same DESIGN in them (no dmg, low health) and can be played by ANY class.

My point wasn't aimed at Mages, it was aimed at spells. Mages just have the most spell damage and are receiving most flak for it. Not every class can run heal to counter it.

Rather read and fully understand my post before personally attacking me. I would rather you attack my points and not me.

You're either incapable of understanding what you wrote yourself, or blatantly lying. You're talking about mages, and "damage spells". I pointed out how ridiculous your idea were, and how it's obvious you want special changes to make shamen immune to spell damage etc.

Just learn how to play instead of trying to make everyone else around you worse. It's embarrassing to watch you trying to justify your hissy fit.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3
Scerion, please explain to me what the following means.

Mages are getting the most of the flack because they have the most direct damage spells of all the classes, but I think the issues lay in the way spells are designed in general.


Since I used the word "Mages" there, must mean I am only talking about mages. Did I understand your logic correctly there? I am referring to the post below.

Please read your own post, you specifically mentioned mages numerous times, you mentioned mage spells specifically, and you're posting the mage forum. You're clearly talking about mages.


Sentence structure and topic of discussion is obviously ignored since I dared to use the word "mage". Mages are the most spell driven class (and rightfully should be) which is why I came here to post. My examples of "countering mage spells" was there to paint a picture of dealing with a spell driven class and the limited options available currently.

I always approve of the idea of adding more dynamics to the game as greater strategies can come from that. The reason I suggested a "totem like" design is because I wanted people playing these cards to sacrifice on board control, allowing non-spell solutions a chance to get at it.

I agree with Sar though. I read his posts and agree with almost all of what he says. This change would have to come in with a batch of other changes so that this doesn't become the new cookie cutter build. I just feel the options we currently have against spell damage are too few, but maybe that is because I have been spoilt by other card games.

Scerion, your tone is not appreciated here. This post has so far been fairly constructive, but you seem to want to derail it into a flame fest. The only one throwing a hissy fit is you. If you have nothing constructive to provide here, there are other posts which will welcome your approach. I would actually prefer to discuss these issues and see other peoples opinions on the matter. My point was clear and if you struggled getting at it, the fault lies in your court. I never said I was 100% correct, as I did say the following:

I haven't thought much on the possible mechanics of the above, but my intention is to possibly spark a better idea through my suggestions.

What do you guys think?


This was to promote discussion, or to possible spark a better idea in someone else. I am not a master of balance, but maybe a brilliant idea is hidden in someone else.

and..

Stop being stupid.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]