Mana wyrm 2 health please

Posts: 165
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health
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Posts: 3,599
agree. as a paladin i have to wait til turn 4 to do anything to it.

they always Mana wyrm coin into mirror and it goes from there.

Mage vs Pally is SO freaking one sided atm
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Posts: 512
I disagree, every class has powerful minions that work well with its kit. 'Tis by design.

Don't you think the Argent Defender is a bit annoying? Or Guardian of Ancient Kings (I think that's what it's called)? Or those damn priest 1/3 that draw cards when u heal? Let's nerf everything!

If this is such an immense hurdle as pala you should ask for buff in your tool kit to deal with it, not ask for onesided nerfs. I'd put money on your complaints being disregarded because we are looking at 2 minions who may or may not even be drawn first turn.
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Posts: 1,526
01/01/2014 03:59 PMPosted by Air
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health

I disagree. Please increase it to 4hp. Thanks!
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Posts: 206
Your request was added to 'Complete list of Mage cards that scrubs wants to see nerfed'. Thank you for your feedback. Here's the list:

Arcane Missiles
Ice Lance
Mana Wyrm
Mirror Image
Arcane Explosion
Frostbolt
Sorcerer's Apprentice
Arcane Intellect
Counterspell
Frost Nova
Ice Barrier
Ice Block
Kirin Tor Mage
Mirror Entity
Spellbender
Vaporize
Cone of Cold
Ethereal Arcanist
Fireball
Polymorph
Water Elemental
Blizzard
Archmage Antonidas
Flamestrike
Pyroblast
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Posts: 944
That IS a fairly comprehensive list, well done compiling all that data.
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Posts: 690
Lol...Mana Wyrm? Seriously?

I suppose you want to nerf Voidwalker because it's a 1 mana 1/3 card that warlocks can make 3/5 on their next turn too.

I guess you also want Northshire Cleric nerfed...

Oh no, the 1 drops are too strong!
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Posts: 206
01/02/2014 12:15 PMPosted by Vanish
That IS a fairly comprehensive list, well done compiling all that data.

Thank you, we couldn't make it without all that valuable data, from all the great players.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
Incase you can't tell, that list he made is a list of every mage card.
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Posts: 130
01/02/2014 09:30 AMPosted by Scerion
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health

I disagree. Please increase it to 4hp. Thanks!


Please report this guy. He doesn't give ONE useful on topic comment in any mage threads. Bias nab tfo!
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
01/02/2014 01:02 PMPosted by CeaRshaf

I disagree. Please increase it to 4hp. Thanks!


Please report this guy. He doesn't give ONE useful on topic comment in any mage threads. Bias nab tfo!


In all fairness, the same could be said for yourself.

Not that I advocate reporting anyone, as long as someone isn't trolling or spamming, you're welcome to post your opinion, even if it's a bad one.
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Posts: 130


Please report this guy. He doesn't give ONE useful on topic comment in any mage threads. Bias nab tfo!


In all fairness, the same could be said for yourself.

Not that I advocate reporting anyone, as long as someone isn't trolling or spamming, you're welcome to post your opinion, even if it's a bad one.


I always talk on point and this time I just wanted to give people a heads up about this trolls that you know very well and all they do is mock people who complaint about your beloved class.
Edited by CeaRshaf on 1/2/2014 2:28 PM PST
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852


In all fairness, the same could be said for yourself.

Not that I advocate reporting anyone, as long as someone isn't trolling or spamming, you're welcome to post your opinion, even if it's a bad one.


I always talk on point and this time I just wanted to give people a heads up about this trolls that you know very well and all they do is mock people who complaint about your beloved class.


I'm aware, but couldn't you say literally the exact same thing about yourself even in this very post? At least in regards to myself, the entire purpose of this post is to mock someone who defends the class you hate.

Note I have no particular ties to mage. I dislike whiners who complain about every class that beats them once and who refuse to adapt in any fashion to the meta. If I see any statistics that indicate that mage is overpowered I'll change my mind, but as it currently stand, the statistics available at the moment show them being underpowered if anything; the complaints remind me to the whiners about Priest needing a million nerfs as they continued to be the weakest class in the game according to Blizzard's win rate statistics. I was also an avid attacker of those whiners as well, by the way. And I'll probably do the same thing about what ever the next hip class to whine about is (unless I actually see some indication they're right, by the way).
Edited by Sar on 1/2/2014 2:33 PM PST
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Posts: 36
01/01/2014 03:59 PMPosted by Air
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health


Nope.
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Posts: 261
nerf Northshire Cleric to 2 mana then so it can be balanced u damn scrub
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Posts: 86
01/01/2014 03:59 PMPosted by Air
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health

Northshire Cleric is perfectly fine though, right....
Edited by Nitey on 1/3/2014 4:49 PM PST
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Posts: 93
01/03/2014 04:49 PMPosted by Nitey
this card is way too strong for a 1 drop. There is very little removal early game that can deal with this card the way mages play. Please nerf this to 2 health

Northshire Cleric is perfectly fine though, right....


Yes because it belongs to a class with a extremely poor Hero power and weak early game play, that makes it very hard for said class to maintain board control early on without it.

Mages on the other hand have a very easy time getting early board control thanks to having excellent early game spells and what is probably the strongest Hero power in the game.

So it is actually a terrible comparison.
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Posts: 13,852
01/03/2014 05:24 PMPosted by Sumadin

Northshire Cleric is perfectly fine though, right....


Yes because it belongs to a class with a extremely poor Hero power and weak early game play, that makes it very hard for said class to maintain board control early on without it.

Mages on the other hand have a very easy time getting early board control thanks to having excellent early game spells and what is probably the strongest Hero power in the game.

So it is actually a terrible comparison.


The Priest hero power is actually very good, so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up as a point of comparison.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on Mana Wyrm. First, understand that you do not balance cards, you balance classes. Every class has cards that are stronger than certain cards of other classes; this is almost a requirement to make a diverse game where the classes themselves are balanced. Because each class functions not as a bunch of individual cards but as the combination of their cards together, it's not good to look at cards in a vacuum. This is why, for example, Priests can have a very strong card like Mind Control yet still be a relatively lackluster class overall.

So, personally, IF they were to find that mages were overpowered and winning too many of their games (which statistics do not currently indicate), there are two cards I would target personally: Flamestrike and Mana Wyrm. Flamestrike can be saved for another day, especially since this is a Mana Wyrm thread. The thing about Mana Wyrm is that 1/3 is relatively high stats for a 1-drop to begin with, but Wyrm is not unique in that regard as there are multiple class-specific 1-drops that have 3 health. What makes Mana Wyrm unique is that its stats grow relatively easily without much effort on the mage's part, meaning that the mage can do moves in the very early game that they would have done without the Mana Wyrm there (Mirror Image, Frostbolt, Coin, etc.) to essentially make it the equivalent of a 3-drop quickly and free. Once again, I say "free" in the sense that the moves are ones that would in general be done even if the Mana Wyrm weren't on the table. In particular, a Mana Wyrm hiding behind Mirror Images (which despite popular myth is not all that common of a situation, though it does happen) is an extremely difficult situation to fight out of unless you're a class with direct damage spells that can kill it in the early game (Shaman, Mage, Priest, Druid).

If I were to nerf Mana Wyrm, I would change it to a 2-health minion; as I said, with a minion that so easily increases stats, having already above-average stats to begin with is different than something like a Voidwalker, which has strong stats but doesn't inherently increase its own stats. This would put it in range of removal of a few more class's early removal (Hunter, Warlock) and, more importantly, would put it in standard 2-damage aoe range. This would allow the mage to get their "free hits", so to speak, in the early game by hiding the Mana Wyrm behind Mirror Images, but would have the penalty of causing the mage to lose both when the aoe comes in around turn 4 (pending the class).

That all being said, as I said before, you don't balance cards, you balance classes, and current statistics indicate that mages are already losing over half their games. And you don't nerf a class that's balanced just to go after a card that's better-than-average (every class has such cards), and you certainly don't do it with a class that's losing more often than it wins.
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Posts: 512
If I were to nerf Mana Wyrm, I would change it to a 2-health minion; as I said, with a minion that so easily increases stats, having already above-average stats to begin with is different than something like a Voidwalker, which has strong stats but doesn't inherently increase its own stats. This would put it in range of removal of a few more class's early removal (Hunter, Warlock) and, more importantly, would put it in standard 2-damage aoe range. This would allow the mage to get their "free hits", so to speak, in the early game by hiding the Mana Wyrm behind Mirror Images, but would have the penalty of causing the mage to lose both when the aoe comes in around turn 4 (pending the class).


But as is a fortunate start with a mana wyrm is pretty much all that lets me take and hold early to mid board control. Nerfing that card in a vacuum would just further push mages to burn style decks, which are dull to many mages and frustrating to all other classes from what I can tell (not because they win a lot but because how they win),
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 13,852
01/04/2014 06:02 AMPosted by MayhemInc
If I were to nerf Mana Wyrm, I would change it to a 2-health minion; as I said, with a minion that so easily increases stats, having already above-average stats to begin with is different than something like a Voidwalker, which has strong stats but doesn't inherently increase its own stats. This would put it in range of removal of a few more class's early removal (Hunter, Warlock) and, more importantly, would put it in standard 2-damage aoe range. This would allow the mage to get their "free hits", so to speak, in the early game by hiding the Mana Wyrm behind Mirror Images, but would have the penalty of causing the mage to lose both when the aoe comes in around turn 4 (pending the class).


But as is a fortunate start with a mana wyrm is pretty much all that lets me take and hold early to mid board control. Nerfing that card in a vacuum would just further push mages to burn style decks, which are dull to many mages and frustrating to all other classes from what I can tell (not because they win a lot but because how they win),


Incase this got missed, since I know the post was kind of long.

01/03/2014 05:39 PMPosted by Sar


Anyway, here are my thoughts on Mana Wyrm. First, understand that you do not balance cards, you balance classes. Every class has cards that are stronger than certain cards of other classes; this is almost a requirement to make a diverse game where the classes themselves are balanced. Because each class functions not as a bunch of individual cards but as the combination of their cards together, it's not good to look at cards in a vacuum. This is why, for example, Priests can have a very strong card like Mind Control yet still be a relatively lackluster class overall.


01/03/2014 05:39 PMPosted by Sar
.

That all being said, as I said before, you don't balance cards, you balance classes, and current statistics indicate that mages are already losing over half their games. And you don't nerf a class that's balanced just to go after a card that's better-than-average (every class has such cards), and you certainly don't do it with a class that's losing more often than it wins.
Edited by Sar on 1/4/2014 6:18 AM PST
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