Mages need a complete re-evaluation

Posts: 54
01/01/2014 11:47 PMPosted by Malice


where are these stats exactly? I'm curious.
I'd love to see them as well. Would be very useful.


Yea, I'm honestly curious where these stats can be found. I see a lot of people on these forums talking about these "stats" yet no one ever links to them or anything. It would actually be really helpful to see the win rates and what not of all the classes in constructed and arena. If they actually do exist I would love to see them. I am, however, not holding my breath. Hopefully someone proves me wrong.
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Posts: 36
01/01/2014 11:06 PMPosted by Mand
Yes, because according to collected stats, they're winning less than half of their games.


this.
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Posts: 685

I'd love to see them as well. Would be very useful.


Yea, I'm honestly curious where these stats can be found. I see a lot of people on these forums talking about these "stats" yet no one ever links to them or anything. It would actually be really helpful to see the win rates and what not of all the classes in constructed and arena. If they actually do exist I would love to see them. I am, however, not holding my breath. Hopefully someone proves me wrong.

honestly u dont even need stats to know how the current meta is going
warlocks and druids are dominating at all ranks in constructed

arena isn't really all about stats cuz drafts are all random, it can be really skewed based on how good/bad the draft is
otherwise i believe every class is very similar in terms of winrate...even hunters who are believed to be terrible aren't actually that bad in reality
Edited by xSkilling on 1/2/2014 4:44 AM PST
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 11,716
Yes, because according to collected stats, they're winning less than half of their games.


where are these stats exactly? I'm curious.


You can find stats on the win rates of classes here. http://hearthstats.net/dec#.UsHTjOKqs0w

If you don't understand how to play against mages, read this. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/10973087435
Edited by Sar on 1/2/2014 4:46 AM PST
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Posts: 710
01/02/2014 04:45 AMPosted by Sar
http://hearthstats.net/dec#.UsHTjOKqs0w


Statistics based on less that 1% of the user base and there feedback.
Raw data is needed here, not statistics if we want an true answer. Has nothing to do with the balance of some cards. So to bring this up as a defense is kinda obscure.

Or shall I use the same method on how many people "statistically lies on the internet per day" and compare?
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Posts: 323
Agreed Bibiki.
Is this where Sar is always getting his stat info from? There are a total of roughly 4800 people that have contributed to these stats. Hardly a true indication of anything relevant.
I will now eye roll anytime Sar says anything about stats.
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Posts: 8,646
01/02/2014 07:31 AMPosted by speedstr
There are a total of roughly 4800 people that have contributed to these stats. Hardly a true indication of anything relevant.


Untrue.

It's actually an appropriate sample size. Larger than necessary in fact, much larger.

The margin of error for a sample size that large is pretty low.
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Posts: 1,248
01/02/2014 04:45 AMPosted by Sar


where are these stats exactly? I'm curious.


You can find stats on the win rates of classes here. http://hearthstats.net/dec#.UsHTjOKqs0w

If you don't understand how to play against mages, read this. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/10973087435


I'm not sure these stats are trustworthy, the sample size seems huge, but look at Hunters.

In Constructed, Hunters have the highest win rate and Druids have the lowest? Nobody can seriously believe that Hunters have a 62% global Constructed win rate. Hunters then have a 39% win rate in Arena?

I guess Druid kinda makes sense, since all high-rank is is Druid vs Druid.

Obviously Druids need buffs and Hunters need more nerfs.
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Posts: 5,367
01/01/2014 11:06 PMPosted by Mand
Yes, because according to collected stats, they're winning less than half of their games.

You KNOW overall win rate is only half the story. Specific issues, card combos etc etc all matter too.

I would say with everything considered apart from a couple of card tweaks (pyro and iceblock I'm looking at you) the mage is just fine.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 7,887
01/02/2014 07:12 AMPosted by Bibiki
Raw data is needed here, not statistics if we want an true answer.


Sorry, that's not how the real world works. Statistics tells us an enormous amount of information. I suspect you're only rejecting it as not a "true answer" because it's an answer you don't agree with.
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Posts: 1,248
01/02/2014 07:52 AMPosted by Mand
Raw data is needed here, not statistics if we want an true answer.


Sorry, that's not how the real world works. Statistics tells us an enormous amount of information. I suspect you're only rejecting it as not a "true answer" because it's an answer you don't agree with.


So Hunters are currently super-overpowered in Constructed? Okay.
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Posts: 8,646
01/02/2014 07:48 AMPosted by savionen
In Constructed, Hunters have the highest win rate and Druids have the lowest? Nobody can seriously believe that Hunters have a 62% global Constructed win rate. Hunters then have a 39% win rate in Arena?I guess Druid kinda makes sense, since all high-rank is is Druid vs Druid.Obviously Druids need buffs and Hunters need more nerfs.


Hunter, for all that it is pretty weak right now, is still a pubstomp class.

Druid definitely is not.
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Posts: 710
There are a total of roughly 4800 people that have contributed to these stats. Hardly a true indication of anything relevant.


Untrue.

It's actually an appropriate sample size. Larger than necessary in fact, much larger.

The margin of error for a sample size that large is pretty low.


The site looks nice, I'll give it that. Although the sample size looks formidable, It's not something to look at. First you need an even evaluation of each class, which is far from. I.e look at the total games played for each class. Hunter is the class that is the least played, naturally it gives it a lower overall number. If it were to be half that and played with all the current meta deck cards. It would put it at an much higher win rate than the rest. And why would that prove anything?

If you want to change something, you will have to look at the cards individually. And not the whole picture of whether or not I won per pure chance.

And I must say, don't want to get a work as a balance person. Seams like a god damn nightmare.
Edited by Bibiki on 1/2/2014 7:58 AM PST
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Posts: 323
[quote]


Sorry, that's not how the real world works. Statistics tells us an enormous amount of information. I suspect you're only rejecting it as not a "true answer" because it's an answer you don't agree with.

people won't reject something if it is accurate. 4800 people seems to be a large number but depending on how many active players there are, it could be very tiny.

So what you're saying as an MVP is you can't get any REAL data from Blizzard? you are relying on a website that has less than 5000 people making up the statistics? Shame.
Statistically speaking, let's say that 1 million people are playing or have played hearthstone.
You need 10000 people to give you a 1% margin of valid statistics. At this point, according to that website, you're getting less than half a percent of statistical data. ( if you use 1 million people). I would ask you how many active players there are but now that we know your numbers, not coming directly from Blizzard, are no more reliable than anyone else's.
How is that even remotely accurate?
Edited by speedstr on 1/2/2014 8:08 AM PST
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Posts: 8,646
01/02/2014 07:57 AMPosted by Bibiki
First you need an even evaluation of each class, which is


...impossible to get from volunteer stats.

Especially not if Blizz keeps trashcanning classes like they have been.
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Posts: 234
01/02/2014 07:54 AMPosted by Zelethul
In Constructed, Hunters have the highest win rate and Druids have the lowest? Nobody can seriously believe that Hunters have a 62% global Constructed win rate. Hunters then have a 39% win rate in Arena?I guess Druid kinda makes sense, since all high-rank is is Druid vs Druid.Obviously Druids need buffs and Hunters need more nerfs.


Hunter, for all that it is pretty weak right now, is still a pubstomp class.

Druid definitely is not.


Lol pubstomp? Lemme know how to get into your invite-only leagues bro.
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Posts: 17,096
01/01/2014 11:31 PMPosted by Drops
f you let them play 7 spells (2 of wich cost 8 mana) you deserve nothing more than a LOOSE

To be fair, there isn't a whole lot you can do that prevents them from casting spells. The trick is to make them burn them on juicy targets, and not your face +)
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 7,887
01/02/2014 07:54 AMPosted by savionen


Sorry, that's not how the real world works. Statistics tells us an enormous amount of information. I suspect you're only rejecting it as not a "true answer" because it's an answer you don't agree with.


So Hunters are currently super-overpowered in Constructed? Okay.


No, I wouldn't make that claim. I also wouldn't make a claim that these stats prove that Mages are underpowered. But if a class were overpowered, it should show up high on the list. Not having a winrate above 50% is at least an indicator that a class might not be overpowered.
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MVP - Hearthstone
Posts: 7,887
01/02/2014 08:04 AMPosted by speedstr
people won't reject something if it is accurate.


lol

People reject things that are accurate all the time if it conflicts with a belief they hold. It's very, very well documented in fact.
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Posts: 356
01/01/2014 11:06 PMPosted by Mand
Yes, because according to collected stats, they're winning less than half of their games.


Link to these "collected stats" please.

EDIT: Never mind - I saw these so called "stats" are a reference to hearthstats.com. Stats from that site are COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS. They can be manually entered by anyone, including people who don't have a beta key, and they are a compiled from a small sample size.

Don't be fooled by people constantly linking this site as "proof" of anything.
Edited by Beleth on 1/2/2014 8:27 AM PST
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