Naturalize card have to be changed.

Posts: 30
Let's see at cards that destroys minions and how much mana it costs:

Druid: Naturalize (1 mana), destroy a minion and give 2 cards to the opponent.
Warrior: Execute (1 mana), destoy a damaged minion.
Priest: SWP/D (2/3 mana), destroy a minion with 3-/5+ damage.
Rogue: Assassinate (5 mana), destroy a minion
Hunter: Deadly Shot (3 mana), destroy random minion
Warlock: Siphon Soul (6 mana), destroy a minion and recover 3hp to the warlock
Mage: Vaporize (3 mana), destroy a minion who attack the mage.
Paladin: nothing
Shaman: nothing

The only one of these cards gives a bonus to the opponent: Naturalize. You might to think something like "but it costs 1 mana only, all is OK!", but if you compare it to other cards - this argument wont be looks well.
- You can hit a minion for 1 damage and use Execute on it. Does 1 damage costs 2 cards? Don't think so.
- Priests: only a few mobs in game have a 4 attack and gives a real pain to the player: Izera, Drakes. But they are so dangerous not because of their hp but becouse of their effect for player. Priest have 4 cards of silence for such cases. More than enough. And 4 "just destroy" cards for minions that are "not 4 attack".
Rogue: just kills any mob for 5 mana.
Hunter: 3 mana for killing a random minion. Ask youself: how often you do see an opponents that use "i swarm the board" tactic? I had seen it very few times, most players use a "clear opponent's side of board and have one minion on my side". In other words this "random shot" does not looks so "random".
Warlock: 6 mana. It is for 1 more mana than simple destroy (rogue) and it is recovers 3 hp to you.
Mage: Almost the same thoughts that were about a Hunter. The price is the same also.

And the other question is: who needs a "destroy" button on early game? Why 1 mana? Nobody will use this card at it's first turn. Make it costs 5 mana, but remove this "gives 2 cards to the opponent" from the card - it will be absolutely OK!
Because now Naturalize card are absolutely a tresh card and nobody uses it. Giving cards to the opponent is absolutely bad idea!
I used this card effectively only once: opponent was without cards in deck and started to get damage from fatigue. I killed two of his minions and he took a lot of damage. But I do not think that using this card in that way is a planned design.

I don't want to take into consideration the cards that are related to some sort of control like "sheep", or "hex", or should be used together with other cards like equiality.
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Posts: 15
I would not say that it is useless right now, unless at the uttermost end of need - when it comes to lost the game or give free 2 cards.

Of course it need some fixing - for example give it bigger mana cost as you've said, lower the free cards to 1 or put a condition, that you must also destroy one of your creatures (controversial but differing from the other removals).

Some might say that Druid has many other removals - Swipe, Wrath, Starfall, Starfire, more than for example Warrior and Hunter or even Warlock, but still they are not working everytime for every creature, and I would say that straight removing spells should be on the same (similiar) conditions for every class. Other than that there is a small paradox - a Druid, the mana efficient (or at least should be) class, has removal for 1 mana with such a OP consequences for him - it's silly.
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Posts: 734
12/28/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Qox
Let's see at cards that destroys minions and how much mana it costs:

Druid: Naturalize (1 mana), destroy a minion and give 2 cards to the opponent.
Warrior: Execute (1 mana), destoy a damaged minion.
Priest: SWP/D (2/3 mana), destroy a minion with 3-/5+ damage.
Rogue: Assassinate (5 mana), destroy a minion
Hunter: Deadly Shot (3 mana), destroy random minion
Warlock: Siphon Soul (6 mana), destroy a minion and recover 3hp to the warlock
Mage: Vaporize (3 mana), destroy a minion who attack the mage.
Paladin: nothing
Shaman: nothing

The only one of these cards gives a bonus to the opponent: Naturalize. You might to think something like "but it costs 1 mana only, all is OK!", but if you compare it to other cards - this argument wont be looks well.
- You can hit a minion for 1 damage and use Execute on it. Does 1 damage costs 2 cards? Don't think so.
- Priests: only a few mobs in game have a 4 attack and gives a real pain to the player: Izera, Drakes. But they are so dangerous not because of their hp but becouse of their effect for player. Priest have 4 cards of silence for such cases. More than enough. And 4 "just destroy" cards for minions that are "not 4 attack".
Rogue: just kills any mob for 5 mana.
Hunter: 3 mana for killing a random minion. Ask youself: how often you do see an opponents that use "i swarm the board" tactic? I had seen it very few times, most players use a "clear opponent's side of board and have one minion on my side". In other words this "random shot" does not looks so "random".
Warlock: 6 mana. It is for 1 more mana than simple destroy (rogue) and it is recovers 3 hp to you.
Mage: Almost the same thoughts that were about a Hunter. The price is the same also.

And the other question is: who needs a "destroy" button on early game? Why 1 mana? Nobody will use this card at it's first turn. Make it costs 5 mana, but remove this "gives 2 cards to the opponent" from the card - it will be absolutely OK!
Because now Naturalize card are absolutely a tresh card and nobody uses it. Giving cards to the opponent is absolutely bad idea!
I used this card effectively only once: opponent was without cards in deck and started to get damage from fatigue. I killed two of his minions and he took a lot of damage. But I do not think that using this card in that way is a planned design.

I don't want to take into consideration the cards that are related to some sort of control like "sheep", or "hex", or should be used together with other cards like equiality.


I agree with you on that
I am lucky and I got like 99% of the all the cards in the game and I can use Big game hunter and Tinkmaster overspark but for the people who don't have this cards , playing as druid can be a big pain in the !@#.
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Posts: 36
only a few mobs in game have a 4 attack and gives a real pain to the player: Izera, Drakes


Druid of the claw and chillwind yeti disagrees with you. Chillwind were really great before the priest nerf. I think druid already has great removals abilities, especially vs swarming, and is d, but its weakness is huge minions such as Ysera. I dont think it should change
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Posts: 30
12/28/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Gleecerine
only a few mobs in game have a 4 attack and gives a real pain to the player: Izera, Drakes

Druid of the claw and chillwind yeti disagrees with you.

It goes without saying that when priests have problems with 4-attack minions the other classes have problems with ALL-attack minions. Non-priest classes does not have a "kill minion with attack not equal 4" you know. So we have to fight with all minions, while priests can choose does they want to fight with a minion or just kill it instantly. And when priests thinks that they have problems with minions with 4-attack, then I would say that they just in the same situation as all other classes.

When my shaman-opponent use a 7/8 taunt - I have to kill it somehow. But I do not want to give cards to the opponent and I use Starfall + Swipe if I have it now. If I already used it - then I'm in trouble. Priests can just destroy this mob and play further. Or MC it.
Edited by Qox on 12/28/2013 10:40 AM PST
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Posts: 31
You forget that because it's one mana, you have so much extra mana compared to the other hard destroys that you can play stuff behind wrecking their big creature.

It may not be the greatest card in existence, but it's a lot better than you're giving it credit for.
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Posts: 73
I actually like it the way it is I often use it as a finisher or when I have an emergency. It has gotten me in trouble sometimes however their have been to many times I have used naturalize and it has won me the game.

I've used it to fatigue somebody many times or make somebody lose cards because they hoarded them. I've also just used it get rid of a really big creature I normally would not be able to get rid of. Giving the opponent two cards out weighed having the creature on the board.
Edited by Flint on 12/28/2013 10:17 PM PST
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Posts: 165
Lets not make every class the same shall we?

Regardless I love naturalize. It's about board control. 1 mana removal means you get to play other cards that turn which makes it unique.
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Posts: 154
You can make a gimmick deck with these and coldlight making the opponent discard up to 8 cards but its unlikely. I agree completely with your post however, it needs to be changed. I could accept 1 card drawn but 2 is devastating in most cases.
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Posts: 34
i would take polymorth, hex anyday instead of naturalize as druid
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Posts: 2
Naturalize is in a good place. I'm currently running it in a murloc deck (hands down the most explosive deck I've seen in this game, kinda akin to goblin charbeltcher form magic, 10 damage on second turn is fun) and the 1 cost on it is vital. If you can put on enough pressure fast enough, you can actually fill up their hand with cards that they can't play yet due to mana cost. Obviously the 3 for 1 is terrible when playing the control game, but give the card a shot in fast aggro.

That said, I wish the druid had a second kill spell that were actually playable in the midrange or ramp decks the class is designed for.
Edited by Kumlekar on 1/2/2014 9:59 AM PST
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Posts: 14
IMO if you destroy your own minion you should get to draw 2 cards.
Edited by Quadra on 1/3/2014 9:16 AM PST
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Posts: 996
Uhh, that would be nerfing naturalize. Use it as a combo.
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Posts: 501
I can accept that it's supposed to be the mortal strike of removal(A inferior fireball, but that's ok, because that's not warriors specilization), but the drawback is definitely too big. You can have it in your deck and it can win you games, but it will lose you more games. Either from it backfiring or from sitting in your hand being worthless when you could have had something usable there instead.

Draw one and I do like the idea of giving draw to the minions owner.
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Posts: 208
1 mana to kill a legendary, are u retarded?!?!
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Posts: 8
I hold one Naturalize and only use it when I have lethal. It always goes towards taking out a taunt (I especially like killing Tirion with it :-).

Unless your opponent is running a gimmick deck, their last turn is usually an all-out board clear or setup for a kill on the next turn with a taunt or two to keep you off their face. Naturalize lets you wipe those taunts with mana left over to end the game. Situational awareness of when you have lethal is one of the most important skills new players need to develop.
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Posts: 200
12/28/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Qox
I used this card effectively only once: opponent was without cards in deck and started to get damage from fatigue. I killed two of his minions and he took a lot of damage. But I do not think that using this card in that way is a planned design.

I use it specifically for purposes like this because it's two of the goals of my Druid deck, remove the opponent's minions and make them Fatigue a lot if my minions can't kill them. Another way you could use it is if your opponent drew too many cards and killing a minion makes them discard 1-2 cards. As others have said, I like the 1 mana cost because I'm more likely to be able to use other cards in that same turn.
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Posts: 402
Naturalize is a great tempo card at the expense of card-advantage. If used at the right time, it's excellent. But it's much more situational card than most removal. If you can't take advantage of the extra mana on your turn, then it's almost certainly a bad play.
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Posts: 89
I use neutralize, I'm always saving it for dire situations or when I can finish him if I can get past his taunt etc.
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