Sword of Justice - Too much value

Posts: 4
Hey Pally forum,

I'd hate to be that guy who just whines about a card because I just lost to it, but this seems like an exceptional card.

I play shaman at the moment, and was winning against a paladin, that is until he used sword of Justice.

The tokens made by his hero power traded with many of my high value units (juggler, totems, SSC), and I couldn't do anything about it without using several cards to clear his board. Of course, this gives the Pally a huge card advantage and I had no way of coming back.

Do you guys feel that SoJ provides a lot of value? Is it too slow? If it gave +1 health OR +1 Attack would it be more balanced?

I feel that as a turn 3 drop the SoJ gives a strong candidate and board advantage, and that the only counter that I have would be a swamp ooze.

Opinions!?
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Posts: 1,981
01/05/2014 03:30 AMPosted by KromesxD
I play shaman at the moment, and was winning against a paladin, that is until he used sword of Justice.


You were not winning, your never really winning in Hearthstone before the enemy hit 0, thats the name of the game. Just because your enemy has less health than you does not mean your winning, if you have more cards you have a cards advantage. Your not winning.

SoJ is used in some paladin early to mid paladin decks to up their units value in trades but not many plays that deck, and if it was oozed the paladin lost his entire turn 3 and that ooze alone could make him lose the game really.
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Posts: 4
Okay, instead of winning I'll say that I had a card advantage and board control.

One card swung this around. Perhaps if I drew a lightning storm I would be able to clear his board, but then I would have little mana the next turn and he could just repopulate with extra value units. Other than ooze, there is little that can be done.
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Posts: 175
All weapons have a counter, ooze. In SoJ's case its much easier to use against. Since it stays on paladins hand for 3-4 turn.

We also spend 3 mana on a buff which we dont get full value for a few turns. Instead of playing a harvest golem we play SoJ. If it's not gonna yield a bigger return on the long run why put ourserlves back with giving up board control.

One other downside is you cant use Truesilver Champion for a few turns. Using TC mid game is very important for board control. More so than buffing your minions with +1/+1.
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Posts: 14
I'd have to agree. SoJ is a great card but not in the current meta. You really need early board control because everybody is running aggro decks and a 1/5 weapon isn't going to cut it. It also makes you delay using TC and that's just bad really.

You really need TC to swing at early threats and not get too damaged before the mid game. When you hit mid game then you're a heck of a lot safer especially if you force them to use they're removal early.

Makes me pretty happy when a Warlock has to use a Shadow Bolt or similar removal card because I keep her alive with my Argent Protector and Redemption and that single creature keeps trading effectively against anything he throws at me.

I noticed that my win rate went up when I got rid of SoJ simply because the tempo you lose when you played it is too much. If they Ooze it (or worse Harrison Jones) you're in some really deep trouble because you effectively used a turn doing nothing.
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Posts: 1,067
A lot of epic cards are exceptional... which they should be.

Imo, you are just coming off as a bit of a whiner. SoJ is good, but it doesn't win games all by itself; not even close. Your board control was more than a little tenuous if his spending 2 mana per turn for a 2/2 took it away.

I might just as well argue that Doomhammer is "OP" because it's the only card that bypasses the one hero attack per turn rule, and has exceptional durability. But I won't do that, because I don't whine about good cards, I play around or counter them.
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Posts: 58
A lot of epic cards are exceptional... which they should be.

Imo, you are just coming off as a bit of a whiner. SoJ is good, but it doesn't win games all by itself; not even close. Your board control was more than a little tenuous if his spending 2 mana per turn for a 2/2 took it away.

I might just as well argue that Doomhammer is "OP" because it's the only card that bypasses the one hero attack per turn rule, and has exceptional durability. But I won't do that, because I don't whine about good cards, I play around or counter them.


agreed
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Posts: 451
Sword of Justice works great to slow down the Murloc rush, that's why I use it in my hand. Some other benefits include the synergy with Leeroy, and a few other cards I just like to use. I also use cards that benefit from high card count, and use hero power to punch out 2/2 for a bit at first. Works well.
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Posts: 63
o.O

Did you guys read much of his post? He asked as a non-Pally player what Pally players thought of SoJ.

He never complained about it, and was curious of whether the card was actually as worthwhile as he thought it might be.

KromesxD:
Do you guys feel that SoJ provides a lot of value? Is it too slow? If it gave +1 health OR +1 Attack would it be more balanced?


My response to this is that the card has potential, as long as you have early board presence. If you don't have that, then you have to attempt to regain that, and that means not having the best tempo.

There are cards that can work wonders with it, mind you, which could mitigate the slower early game. Imp Master, battlecry summons, redemption targets, etc.

It really depends on your build. You don't want it in every deck.
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Posts: 256
...
Edited by MarkofBlood on 8/13/2014 12:44 AM PDT
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Posts: 36
SoJ copled with imp master and foc the turning hero power into 2/2 minions is strong but hey every class has a few strong cards.
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Posts: 733
01/11/2014 02:48 AMPosted by Sillybeans
SoJ copled with imp master and foc the turning hero power into 2/2 minions is strong but hey every class has a few strong cards.

i've yet to see a paladin with both SoJ and imp master in their deck so this doesn't really merit anything more than cheesers gonna cheese
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Posts: 502
01/05/2014 04:10 AMPosted by KromesxD
One card swung this around.


A lot of cards are capable of doing that. In fact, it seems to be one of the core design philosophies of the game, to be capable of swinging any match back to your favor from an apparent loss with just one or two cards.

You can complain about the one card you lost to, but then you're ignoring the cards that enabled you to win, or the cards that you haven't yet lost to.

People aren't used to the game having so many powerful cards, so they complain about the latest one that touched a nerve. People see Equality go down, and forget about Hunter's Mark, Hex, Polymorph, Shadow Word: Pain/Death, etc. They see a Sylvanas Windrunner and forget about Ragnaros, Ysera, Malygos, and Pyroblast.

Hearthstone is not a slow game where you're supposed to build up small increments of power and wage a war of attrition. Hearthstone is a game where you spend 10 minutes or so whaling back and forth, destroying minions and blasting huge chunks of your opponent's health off and then diving back into another game right after.
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Posts: 3,960
Its hard to make an argument to nerf weapons when Acidic Ooze exists. Especially one that costs you a huge amount of tempo and isn't as game breaking as you make it sound.
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Posts: 200
It's an okay card... hard to imagine a situation where you have card and board advantage and this card single handedly turns it around though. It's a total of 5/5 in stats for 3 mana but spread around 1/1 at a time, sort of like Imp Master; good but probably not game changing. I suspect you weren't as ahead as you think.
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Posts: 150
SoJ is a turn 5 card for Paladin as you give up too much tempo playing it early. It sounds like you were trying to clear the board instead of punching him in the face - you gave up your tempo to try and clear the board turn 4 and 5. Essentially, he's 2 turns behind you once he plays that card, so you should be able to almost kill him before he can do anything, especially if you had control earlier.
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Posts: 284
It seems to me like the OP can't really judge the value of Pally's cards, the true powerhouses of Pally play is the high value low cost minions it has like Protectors and Peacekeepers. It makes building a great deck so much easier as the best cards in the game become available on 4 mana+. SOJ is theoretically nice, but most Pally's use it as a turn 5 play already, and by that time you should've gotten an Ooze and made him pay. If you actually have Harrison Jones then that might have been game over, as he just wasted his turn+ gave you 3 cards.

If you're not playing 2 Oozes in your deck then it's your problem, as half the classes have weapons which can deal far more damage to you than SOJ (Gorehowls and Doomhammers for example). Hell, even Tirion's Ashbringer will kill you end game if you don't have an ooze.
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Posts: 583
I love paladin and, i want an SoJ pretty bad.

does that help OP?
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Posts: 587
I love SoJ but the only time I feel like it alone "wins me the game" would be in a Mirror Match, where im up against another midrange Beats Paladin because I get the edge on trades when our decks seem to be soo similar. other than that it, lends a bit of early pressure. Nothin too crazy, im really hopin to see an ooze come out on that so I know my Truesilver champion will be free to swing amok!
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