Blood imp, still kind of OP?

Posts: 17,105
01/15/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Booyah
you are contradicting yourself here.

Not really. I said it wasn't an over-nerf, and it wasn't. The main point of the B.Imp changed (+Health effect), and it has its Pros and Cons associated with that change.

The Attack value though, that is not the point of the B.Imp. That is mostly a "why bother", since the only time a Warlock would ever attack with a B.Imp is when used with Demon Fire / Power Overwhelming (or similar) or to finish off an almost dead, but dangerous, minion.

At 0 Attack, you at least just remove 1 point of damage from a buffed attack, and at best remove the ability to sacrifice the Imp for a gain in board control.

Plus, budget wise, B.Imp is utilizing less of its budget than the Priestess is, which is backwards, Neutral cards should be "weaker" (i.e. not as efficient mana vs budget) than Class cards.
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Posts: 583
It is a nerf to warlock hyper aggro decks, because you can't give all of your low cost minions high health at the same time. However, it is a buff to more midrange warlock decks, since you can get your few minions to very high hp.
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Posts: 370
01/15/2014 05:08 AMPosted by Verdash
you are contradicting yourself here.

Not really. I said it wasn't an over-nerf, and it wasn't. The main point of the B.Imp changed (+Health effect), and it has its Pros and Cons associated with that change.

The Attack value though, that is not the point of the B.Imp. That is mostly a "why bother", since the only time a Warlock would ever attack with a B.Imp is when used with Demon Fire / Power Overwhelming (or similar) or to finish off an almost dead, but dangerous, minion.

At 0 Attack, you at least just remove 1 point of damage from a buffed attack, and at best remove the ability to sacrifice the Imp for a gain in board control.

Plus, budget wise, B.Imp is utilizing less of its budget than the Priestess is, which is backwards, Neutral cards should be "weaker" (i.e. not as efficient mana vs budget) than Class cards.


The loss of the 1 attack is a overnerf, wether it is a "why bother" or not.
If you fail too see you contradict yourself, lets agree we disagree.
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Posts: 17,105
01/15/2014 05:13 AMPosted by Booyah
The loss of the 1 attack is a overnerf, wether it is a "why bother" or not.
If you fail too see you contradict yourself, lets agree we disagree.

It's a why bother in that, in the majority of scenarios, a difference of 0 or 1 Attack on the Blood Imp has absolutely no impact on game play.

If it was a difference of 2 and 3, you could argue Kodo. If it was a difference of 4 and 3 or 5, you could argue Priest.

A difference of 0/1 is nothing more than "finishing blow" potential, in which case, the Blood Imp was already rarely used for this because of how its specially generally gives you favorable trades anyways, and generally wasn't worth losing the Imp.

Besides, with the special now persisting after the death of the Imp, losing him in a trade isn't as detrimental, which is probably why they made him 0 Attack anyways. It just seems odd that a Neutral is, in some ways, better budgetted than a class minion.

So, either way, it is not an over nerf, but I don't really see how that 1 point attack would have made that significant of a difference either way. If I had to pick, I would lean towards it being necessary, but I am not 100% sold on that.
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Posts: 96
I see it as a huge nerf. rendering card weak in mid to almost useless at lategame.
Now you always love to topdeck blood imp with minions on the board, it can turn the game around the turn it was played. After nerf that is no longer true.
Additionally stripping his 1 attack seems like overkill.
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Posts: 652
I see this as a buff. Anybody that sees it as a nerf obviously play'd beef stew decks. You would never ping BI with an argo deck anyway. FYI you can still attack with it, if you buff it.
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Posts: 1,888
It is a nerf in situations where you draw the imp in turn 4 or 5 and then drop him next to 3 or 4 minions. He will only buff one minion and then something like concecration can still make an impact. Thats the point of the nerf.

The problem will present itself when they get the coin, can play a turn 1 1/3 or 3/2 that you cant get rid off right away. It will create situations in which a minion might end up having +3 or +4 health and can suddently not even get killed by single target nukes or weapons anymore, ending up giving the warlock a new way of snowballing into midgame.

But ultimately we will have to see which of either scenarios will happen more often.
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Posts: 1,475
its a minor nerf. ive won plenty of games with out even playing blood imp.

I think the real reason for the change was to fix the wacky blood imp heal thing that can be confusing,,,,
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Posts: 1,385
I actually think the new one is better. Even if you kill it now the buff lives on. Plus it goes above 1 so if it lives a few turns you'll have some huge minions.
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Posts: 115
01/15/2014 05:01 AMPosted by Verdash
pffff they overnerfed the poor fellow and you still complain????

This really wasn't an over-nerf, see the Coin + 2x B.Imp opener for starters.

It does seem odd that the only difference between B.Imp and the priestess is 2 attack and stealth though. B.Imp should be at least a 1/1.


Both cards are used more for their effect than their ability to do damage. I think that 2 attack is a reasonable trade for the ability to actually stay around and have their effect matter. Heck, think about it with Cult Master. Everyone would play that card if it were a 0/2 stealth with the same effect.

Mostly though I think that it is a big nerf to the current Murloc Warlock decks that are popular. It's a buff if you're running smaller numbers of larger creatures, but Warlock decks atm are rush decks so it's a pretty big nerf to the current style of Warlock play.
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Posts: 1,613
Its a nerf to the mass minion warlock rush deck, its potentially a minor buff to the mid to late game warlock control deck.
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Posts: 781
01/15/2014 04:00 AMPosted by Tetsamaru
So instead of an on board temporary buff, it's a perma buff that sticks with minions even after the imp dies. I consider this a buff rather than a Nerf. Espeically when combined with healing spells/minions.


Ya you go ahead and keep thinking that.

Gonna be real satisfying when locks can no longer drop a blood imp next to 4 creatures and instantly give them all 1 health.

Oh and have fun with dat equality/wild pyro now working against him.
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Posts: 1,131
01/15/2014 05:01 AMPosted by Verdash
pffff they overnerfed the poor fellow and you still complain????

This really wasn't an over-nerf, see the Coin + 2x B.Imp opener for starters.


Why would anyone waste a coin on playing TWO Blood Imps in the first round?
Considering that leaves you without a single minion to actually do damage with.

No, this was a nerf through the board.
If you think it was a buff, you never played Warlock.
That said, I would have been ok with it, if they had bothered to fix -any- of our broken cards. ANY.
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Posts: 104
With the upcoming change I am curious if any Warlock could build a deck around the following cards and make it decently playable:

2x Blood Imp
2x Young Priestess
2x Master Swordsmith

Sadly, I do not have the rare cards nor do I have the available dust to grab them. I will be impressed if someone can pull it off. It seems like it would be slow to build up.
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Posts: 1,131
I think the problem with so many low cost buff cards is that, yes, they will buff other cards, but they themselves barely do any damage, and they often even have very few health, so they can be picked off easily.

Really could only work if your opponent ignores the fact that they either only do 1 damage, or have 1 health, and let them build up.
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Posts: 301
01/15/2014 03:45 AMPosted by RavSX
Ok, I understand it was nerfed, and the immediate effect of having a buff on all minions, gone.

But, being a 0/1, in stealth, essentially means it will never break stealth via attack.

So, the only way to get rid of it is AOE (which not every class is strong in)

And if you turn 1 + coin + plop down 2 imps, they're going to be machine gun buffing, without an immediate answer, they can just keep growing in size buffing each other with no immediate answers.

most aoe is turn 3-4, doing 2 dmg?


Come on Op... Think about it... Everyone cried when imps gave +1 to all minions... now some ppl cry because they buff once per turn... When will the crying stop?!?!
I liked the blood imp like it was before... Now ppl will come up with new, even worse strategies. XD

I hope my pala can handle it. :D
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Posts: 2,321
01/15/2014 05:10 AMPosted by deathfrost
However, it is a buff to more midrange warlock decks, since you can get your few minions to very high hp.


What midrange warlock deck can really afford to use a 0/1 in their card slots? Especially one that needs to be played early, and might literally do nothing if you have no other early-game drops to accompany it at the time?

Aside from that, mid-range starts to be where 1 health might not make that much of a difference, and midrange in general was nerfed as well with the hits to Dark Iron Dwarf (for the more aggro-oriented midrange) and the Defender of Argus (for all the midrange)... coincidentally two of the minions that would work to buff the Imp if you wanted to regain some of it's trade potential, or get a little more damage to the face in when it's "safe" to do so.

If it had remained as a 1/1, I could see it having potential then. Alternatively, if it kept it's old ability but became 0/1 it could still be good in Aggro for it's effect, although it would still be a painful nerf. As it is the Imp has been nerfed for essentially all intents and purposes.
Edited by Tsenzei on 1/17/2014 3:10 PM PST
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Posts: 1,285
Dies way too easy to any kind of aoe to stay alive long enough for it's buff to be worthwhile.

If for whatever reason they stay on the board for 3 turns or more something very wierd is going on.
Edited by Serp on 1/17/2014 3:14 PM PST
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Posts: 2,321
I'd like to add also, that while "permanent" health is still generally better than "persistent aura" health for the minion that gets it, Warlock has no solid ways to heal minions. No Health Funnel, Dark Regeneration, Soul Leech, or Healthstones or whatever could be reasonably used. So you're relying on Neutral minions to heal your minions... which also means that by playing them you're diluting what the Blood Imp buffs going forward as well.

The benefit of stacking health on a single minion is far less than it would be for other classes (Mages, Rogues, and Hunters are also in the same boat; Warriors also lack heals but have synergy with injuring your own minions multiple times as well as ways to "spend" that minion health outside the norm).
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Posts: 437
So instead of an on board temporary buff, it's a perma buff that sticks with minions even after the imp dies. I consider this a buff rather than a Nerf. Espeically when combined with healing spells/minions.


Do you play Warlock often?

This change is most definitely a nerf.

I'm one who wanted a change to the Blood Imp, but I just wanted the cost increased to 2 and the card to be a Rare instead of a Common, so Warlocks in Arena would be less likely to draft 3+; when it becomes truly broken.

But no, now the Imp is just a stealthed Young Priestess without the ability to attack, (which actually is a significant disadvantage).

When's the last time you heard a complaint about the Young Priestess? That's right, you haven't, because she doesn't affect the game much. The "new" Blood Imp won't very much either.


Priestess isn't stealthed making her a very easy target.
Edited by Marchenoir on 1/18/2014 1:56 AM PST
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