Lets Talk About Secrets

Posts: 1,210
@Highrock: I understand the desire to buy neutral legendaries as they can be put in any deck list, but if you are serious about running a secrets deck Archmage Antonidas is bar none the best legendary for your deck. At seven health he is hard to kill with minions, and between spellbender and counterspell you can protect him from removal.

He is an absolute monster and I would highly suggest him. If he lives through the turn the bare minimum you will pull is 18 damage worth of fireballs. If you have a mirror image you could wait till turn 8 and that should just about wrap the game up.
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Posts: 14
@Preipatetic: I know, but I feel that my deck is built around early and mid game aggression and I don't think that I have much of a late game anyway, so I don't know how effectively I can actually use Archmage Antonidas. If I'm at a point that I can keep a 7/7 alive to next turn I'm winning already no?

And to be honest I actually think that Nat Pagle or Bloodmage would actually be a better boost to the deck as they will both see more common use.

p.s.
I like your control version of the secrets deck, but I don't have rangaros or Antonidas, so I can't check it out :( What rank did you reach with it?
Edited by Highrock on 2/19/2014 3:23 AM PST
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Posts: 168
02/19/2014 12:07 AMPosted by Peripatetic
I figured since people in this thread are already familiar with my insane deck I might as well ask this question here. I'm considering running Ysera instead of Ragnaros in this deck. No I will not drop Pyroblast, I like having one, and I win more games with Antonidas than I do Ragnaros. I'm asking partially for that reason. Since Ragnaros rarely wins me any games would it be better to have the utility Ysera brings to the table?


Peri, I definitely like Ysera over Ragnaros here. Just the fact that she can't be Shadow Word Death'ed, BGH'ed, etc, is huge. I have both and have tried both and find Ysera to be the more useful of the two in the mage decks we're working with. That being said, she's 1 more mana, so no hero power or really any other card other than a mirror image can be played with her. Which is not a huge problem, but every once in awhile that 2 mana left over from the Rag drop can be useful. Still, I think Ysera is the way to go. The turn you drop her you're guaranteed 1 dream card and most opponents are hard pressed to get rid of her short of the classic Tinkmaster, Poly, Hex, etc. While she'll only crank out 4 dmg per turn, she can usually stick around to tank down some strong minions and 4 to the face is nothing to scoff at. If she stays in play more than 1-2 turns its pretty likely you've won the game as the Emerald Dream starts to tilt the board in your favor pretty quickly. Don't forget that if you use Nightmare on Ysera, she will still give you another Dream card before perishing at the start of your next turn, and you can also Nightmare/Dream her back to your hand for a burst of damage.
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Posts: 1,210
02/19/2014 02:31 AMPosted by Highrock
p.s.
I like your control version of the secrets deck, but I don't have rangaros or Antonidas, so I can't check it out :( What rank did you reach with it?

That's the thing, I don't know how viable it might be. I live in Thailand atm and my network isn't stable or consistent enough for me to risk trashing my rank. I will say this out of 75 games I've won 96% of my games. So three losses in it's current incarnation.

02/19/2014 12:57 AMPosted by Highrock
** Obviously if I had the dust I would change the two Loot hoarders into Nat Pagle and Bloodmage Thalnos, which I think could take the deck to another level

One more thing, card draw is very important in secret decks but here's a part of the beauty behind them. AI (arcane intellect) isn't the dead draw it is in most mage decks because you're going to be running mana cost 3 & 4 until the closing hands. Try dropping the hoarders and run the Azure Drakes and AI. I don't think you need the AD but if your comfortable with them their fine.

Thanks for the opinion Blackhawk, It's played out well in practice and I'll see how it works against some real players when I'm off work this afternoon.
Edited by Peripatetic on 2/19/2014 7:14 PM PST
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Posts: 358
Im Not going to write a book like the others but a bit explanation I think is needed.

I recently had to rebuild my whole Mage deck because I was in a dead log at Rank 15 and could not get any further.

First of, My deck is not entirely build based on Secrets, but the secrets in the deck are really crucial against certain Classes.

First my checklist:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/33202-battle-mage

I saw a deck called "Dirty little Secrets" and the guy was actually a Legendary Player and was shocked by is success. So I tried to change the whole idea of my Battle Mage deck to a more "Mage-Like-Theme" Deck.

Yeah I know there are some cards missing but Im back on my winning spree.
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Posts: 2,412
02/19/2014 01:58 AMPosted by Peripatetic
@Highrock: I understand the desire to buy neutral legendaries as they can be put in any deck list, but if you are serious about running a secrets deck Archmage Antonidas is bar none the best legendary for your deck. At seven health he is hard to kill with minions, and between spellbender and counterspell you can protect him from removal.

He is an absolute monster and I would highly suggest him. If he lives through the turn the bare minimum you will pull is 18 damage worth of fireballs. If you have a mirror image you could wait till turn 8 and that should just about wrap the game up.


i'm currently using the same deck as you i'm finding a lot of games I'm losing purely to card draw what do you think about taking out a vaporize for a Nat?

I'm finding currently even with taking out a vaporize for a Nat is still not enough any suggestions?
Edited by Qpac on 2/21/2014 11:36 PM PST
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Posts: 1,210
02/21/2014 11:07 PMPosted by Qpac
i'm currently using the same deck as you i'm finding a lot of games I'm losing purely to card draw what do you think about taking out a vaporize for a Nat?

I'm finding currently even with taking out a vaporize for a Nat is still not enough any suggestions?

I wouldn't take Vaporize out at all. There is a reason I run a pair of them like I run a pair of Counterspells. As far as card draw is concerned, their is probably only one explanation for it and it's that you're playing the deck too fast. Don't play more than you need in any one turn but play enough to make board control seem up for grabs. With you secrets you need to measure carefully and only play one at a time (unless one of them is ice block).

This isn't an easy deck to figure out, and I"m not saying it's beyond your scope. It requires quite a lot of feel. Meaning that if you can't make a quick deduction about who you're playing you might have a hard time with it.

Take what's called a postage stamp. Look at the first two plays your opponent makes and then take those plays to their logical conclusion then go from there. You may find you assumptions are wrong at which point you have to adjust. Don't try and get ahead of them you need to be patient. This will get in the way of plays you want to make, trust me I know how frustrating that can be. Prioritize taking out minions with secrets unless that is not feasible, you never want to trade unless it is absolutely necessary. Unlike other decks it's not a cardinal sin to leave mana unused.

My deck is tweaked to suit me. You may find you need to tweak it to suit you. Azure Drakes work, I used them for a long time they might be better fit for you than Sorcerer's Apprentice.
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Posts: 95

I wouldn't take Vaporize out at all. .


I made my own Secret deck "Little Secrets" today and jumped from rank 16 to rank 9 in one night..

I have ONE vaporize and if you time it right say.. turn 8 against a rogue who will most likely try and leeroy shadowstep.. you mess up their whole burst.

So I would still take one.
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Posts: 2,412
Thanks everyone I just got into hearthstone and I am really trying to make the mage thing work. Played a shaman and facerolled to rank 4 the first week and just trying to find something more fun and challenging.

i'll take your 2cents Perip and try apply it. :)
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Posts: 360
Eh. My deck is...

Arcane Missiles x2
Mirror Image x2
Mana Wyrm x2
Arcane Explosion x2
Frostbolt
Sorc Apprentice x2
Arcane Intellect
Counterspell
Frost Nova
Ice Barrier x2
Mirror Entity x2
Spellbender
Vaproize x2
Kirin Tor Mage x2
Fireball
Polymorph
Ethernal Arcanist x2
Flamestrike x2
Archmage Antonidas
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Posts: 15
This is my deck, definitely needs some improving though...I think card draw is the biggest problem.

Spells x17

Mirror Image x2
Frostbolt x2
Counterspell x2
Mirror Entity x2
Spellbender x2
Fireball x2
Polymorph x2
Flamestrike x2 (thinking of taking one out, rarely had to use more than one in a match)
Pyroblast x1

Minions x13
Mana Wyrm x2
Faerie Dragon x2
Kirin Tor Mage x2
Ethereal Arcanist x2
Silver Hand Knight x2
Azure Drake x1
Water Elemental x2
Edited by Xestry on 2/23/2014 6:07 AM PST
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Posts: 95
Was Rank 16 yesterday morning, now I'm rank 8.. might not work further down but seems okay for me..

I'm using

Arcane Missles x1
Mirror Image x1
Mana Wyrm x2
Frostbolt x2
Bloodmage Thalnos*
Loot Hoarder x2
Nat Pagle*
Counterspell x2
Iceblock x1
Mirror Entity x2
Vaporize x1 (byebye leeroy)
Kirin Tor Mage x2
Fireball x2
Polymorph x1
Defender of Argus
Ethereal Arcanist x2
Water Elemental x2
Faceless Manipulator
Flamestrike x2
Ragnaros*

I would use Tinkmaster and Cairne if I had them, was using the little 1/1 gnome that gives a card instead of pagle before I had him.

Not using my Archmage as even though it feels great if he stays alive (even moreso if you use a countspell) but I feel he's veeeery situational.

Just remember to never summon rag without a countspell on, not worth the risk or unless you're going to get a kill also to make life a lot easier counterspell shamans feral spirits has made matches a lot easier for me, as I dont have much to get rid of them that early on.
Edited by Apple on 2/23/2014 7:39 AM PST
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Posts: 1,210
02/23/2014 07:36 AMPosted by Apple
Not using my Archmage as even though it feels great if he stays alive (even moreso if you use a countspell) but I feel he's veeeery situational.

Personally I think that spellbinder usually fixes that problem. You have to bait out the two silences and tinkmaster. Granted if you can get an etherial archaist or mana wyrm to pick up a few stacks it's usually not too dificult.

I also I don't see exactly what's situational about fireballs.
Edited by Peripatetic on 2/23/2014 5:34 PM PST
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Posts: 269
1) Ice Block is PERFECT for buffing Ethereals until the end of time (like you posted in your OP). I´m currently running 2 ice blocks , maybe it´s too much, i dunno ... but i´m guaranteed ill be able to play Kurun + Ethereal + Iceblock turns 3/4, almost guaranteed.

2) I would always ALWAYS run 2 poly and 2 fireballs even on a secrets deck. Fireball is a removal / direct damage card, it´s just too good to pass in my eyes. Same as poly. I was running 1 poly but then i squeezed the 2nd one .. just because it makes your life way easier.

3) I´m running x2 ice block, x1 counterspell, x1 mirror, x1 ice barrier. I´m also running Antonidas which is perfect for a turn 10 play (Antonidas + 3 mana secret). I´m also running a frost nova and blizzard to be able to stall a bit if needed. A flamestrike. No pyro.

Good thread ;)
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Posts: 1,210
There are plenty of variations when the backbone is secrets.

02/23/2014 08:36 PMPosted by ZeratulARG
I´m running x2 ice block, x1 counterspell, x1 mirror, x1 ice barrier.


Two ice blocks is a lot imo, personally between one ice block and spellbender you can buff Etherials to the point where they need a destroy card. Regardless you should drop the ice barrier and pick up another counterspell.
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Posts: 14
Made some minor changes to my secret deck, now rank 7 and moving up.

http://i.imgur.com/CNWVbyV.png
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Posts: 5
@peripatetic i've been getting into playing a mage secrets deck recently and am running one thats a slight variant on yours

i dont have antonidas so i've substituted in 2 secret keepers and im running a gadgetzan auctioneer in place of one of the drakes, and left out raggy

so far im having a real blast with it!

its far more effective than i ever thought it would be and im starting season 3 off seeing how far it can go in ranked. People have no idea how to play against a mage secret deck and it really does provide endless fun seeing my counterspell puzzle the hell out of people! I've spellbent more than a couple of kings into the mix too!

Would really love to see how far one can go competatively, so i guess we'll see!

thanks for the deck and keep us posted as to how its going for you

Reaper
Edited by Reaper234 on 3/1/2014 9:26 AM PST
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Posts: 279
I love the Secret cards, my personal favorite ones right now are Counter Spell and Mirror Enitity due to their flexibility against most decks.

Not sure I'm that big a fan of Ice Block, it genuinely feels incredibly situational (which is fine) and Vaporise feels like it'd be more useful in most scenarios, in the Rush down meta we are currently in it feels like all it's going to do is delay the inevitable for one turn whereas Ice Barrier which doesn't have the Lethal damage requirement and is easier to aquire will tank up those small minions and easily stall for time without being a "I lost anyway unless I pull flamestrike" card.
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Posts: 1,210
03/01/2014 09:25 AMPosted by Reaper234
Would really love to see how far one can go competatively, so i guess we'll see!

thanks for the deck and keep us posted as to how its going for you

Two days ago it wasn't so great and yesterday was only a little better. It seems the RNG gods are very cross with me. I've never known such a streak of rotten luck in regard to being minion screwed. Two days ago for five games I didn't get a second creature until turn 6 or 7. I know I only run 12 creatures but that's insane even for someone who's running light on them. It's hard to use the secrets appropriately without minions to pair them with. I've had to use the secrets to stave off death and play from my back foot the past two days. To be fair there were a handful of matches where I didn't have my head in the game. I made some costly order of play choices and some silly mental mistakes.

I was playtesting with Ysera yesterday and returned to my winning ways despite crap draws. I will say this. Cairne, while good in most decks, has no place in my secret deck he was dead weight and couldn't bait a single removal card for me. Secret control doesn't seem to suffer from exhaustion like Warrior control so I think that overall Ragnaros is the better choice. At least that is true of my deck.
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Posts: 82
what's the order between Spellbender and Counterspell?

can you stack up 2 the same Secrets at once? if so, what happens (1 trigger and 1 is left or both triggered aka fail?)

how is Secretkeeper doing?
Edited by only on 3/1/2014 8:35 PM PST
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