Valeera Rogue Hero Power is underpowered.

Posts: 148
Compare to other hero powers.

For those who don't know, Valeera's hero power, Dagger Mastery basically equip her with a dagger which mean hero can now attack for 1 damage and up to 2 times before dagger disappear.

The best option to use this ability is on minion unless you want to tick enemy hero, but then Rexxar Hunter Power can do better. The PROBLEM is if you attack minion with any weapon, it will retaliate your hero with its own damage, which is no difference than if your hero get hit by it, which is what you would want to avoid to begin with.

So imagine hitting an injured War Golem 7/1 trying to kill it. It's the same as if letting that Golem attack you directly :( So what's the point using this hero power? even killing a 1/1 minion can't let you walk away clean.

If you look at similar hero powers that can deal damage. Malfurion's Druid Shapeshift also let him attack for 1 damage WITH A SHIELD blocking 1 damage, even better that shield can stack if undamaged.

Jaina's mage hero power is another power that's much better than Dagger Mastery. Fireblast let your hero deal 1 damage to minion WITHOUT GET HIT BACK by it. You can easily kill 7/1 Golem for just with 2 mana.

I really want to use Valeera Rogue Deck but this underpowered hero give no reason for you to use it. Might as well play Jaina or Malfurion if you want your hero to attack.

Sure you can use Deadly Poison to boost the damage of Dagger Mastery, but then now it cost you extra card slot. Wouldn't it be better just to add another better weapon card? Oh but wait you can use that weapon card on any other other hero, except you can use it together with their other power, this proves Valeera Dagger Mastery still get the weak end.

Suggestion I can think of to balance Valeera's Power 1) increase the dagger damage 2) give Valeera some kind of effect to avoid damage similar to Malfurion or Jaina.

Until then, I think I will stay with Jaina, shame really...
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Posts: 1,181
Well it's 2 mana for 2 damage, over 2 turns.
You can also pay for it and save it for next turn allowing you to time your strike better with your other cards.

Increasing the damage would be insane, and was already nerfed.

I find it quite fine. You have to think more about when and what to attack, but that's always been a staple of rogue play.
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Posts: 451
its not as bad as you describe l2p... you can invest 2 mana in the hero power and use it later when ever you want only risk of loosing it is swamp ooze or harrison jones.. no other hero power can do that. with your reasoning shouldnt druid have much worse?
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Posts: 217
I like it. It makes for abit more advanced decision making than the Hunter, which is mostly "I have nothing better to do with my mana". Not bad but bland and boring.

Perhaps it might need some tweaking but at it's core mechanic it works well. It actually involves some skill to use correctly.

One thing that could be nice would be a rogue card which allows Valeera to hit once without retaliation or let her ignore taunts. Something for the future perhaps.
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Posts: 189
One more Damage.
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Posts: 20
Your comparison to the hunter power is so flawed, OP. The rogue power is so versatile compared to others. I think the closest comparison you can make is to the mage hero power, which is also very versatile. Basically we have the Mage hero power... but we trade some dmg taken to our face but gain mana efficieny per dmg point and the ability to bank our power on a turn we don't want to use it, thus saving it for another turn and thus using our mana even more efficiently.

I'd say overall Rogue hero power is not amanzing but not weak either. Balanced imo.
Edited by Shader on 2/3/2014 6:45 AM PST
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Posts: 452
Biggest joke thread. Rogue power is two damage for two mana that can be used as she pleases and can be buffed. It's probably the best behind Life Tap. Or do you think that is bad because it costs you two life?
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Posts: 148
02/03/2014 01:33 AMPosted by RobotViking
its not as bad as you describe l2p... you can invest 2 mana in the hero power and use it later when ever you want only risk of loosing it is swamp ooze or harrison jones.. no other hero power can do that. with your reasoning shouldnt druid have much worse?


How can Druid is worse? are you trolling or just being funny. Druid get free 1 Shield stack on each other, which part of that you don't understand.
Before tell me l2p, maybe you should l2read

02/03/2014 09:08 AMPosted by Crusalis
Biggest joke thread. Rogue power is two damage for two mana that can be used as she pleases and can be buffed.


Funny, i thought you're telling a joke atm. It's not 2 damage Einstein, it's 1 damage per hit PER TURN + -xxxxx health depend on which minion you attack. Very funny way to twisted the word from bad to good. Very funny, what next? health is half full and not half empty?

02/03/2014 03:13 AMPosted by Skyclad


One thing that could be nice would be a rogue card which allows Valeera to hit once without retaliation or let her ignore taunts. Something for the future perhaps.


That's is excellent suggestion. Because my entire POINT here is this: The Rogue Power to cause damage has HUGE trade off, while Druid and Mage can do similar thing for free.

Sure you can boost weapon with card, but wait, now you waste another card/slot, where you can equip hero with way way better weapon.
Edited by baalblade on 2/3/2014 11:33 AM PST
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Posts: 448
02/02/2014 10:48 PMPosted by baalblade


So imagine hitting an injured War Golem 7/1 trying to kill it. It's the same as if letting that Golem attack you directly :( So what's the point using this hero power?


If you don't kill the Golem it will hit you to the face anyway.
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Posts: 148


So imagine hitting an injured War Golem 7/1 trying to kill it. It's the same as if letting that Golem attack you directly :( So what's the point using this hero power?


If you don't kill the Golem it will hit you to the face anyway.


Either that or getting hit by Golem again and again till you waste a card to kill it. But now see? you waste a card on it, other hero like Mage Fireblast can do it for free, even better Druid get a free shield which you can stack if not used, with what? 2 spare end-game mana?

but we trade some dmg taken to our face but gain mana efficieny per dmg point and the ability to bank our power on a turn we don't want to use it, thus saving it for another turn and thus using our mana even more efficiently.
.


How can you "bank" your power when you lose all at end of turn >_> This is not Magic where you can save it to play instant card (I called secret)
Edited by baalblade on 2/3/2014 11:40 AM PST
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Posts: 1,181
Your point being?

You see, theres more to it. You need to consider context. A rogue has different cards than a mage, for instace. Also, the dagger can cost 0 that turn, also the dagger can be buffed by poison, also it has 2 durability, etc etc.
Not saying its better than the Mage power, Im saying its a different tool and theres more to it than just flatly comparing the two in a single rarely seen situation.
Edited by Slai on 2/3/2014 11:39 AM PST
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Posts: 148
02/03/2014 11:37 AMPosted by Slai
Your point being?

You see, theres more to it. You need to consider context. A rogue has different cards than a mage, for instace. Also, the dagger can cost 0 that turn, also the dagger can be buffed by poison, also it has 2 durability, etc etc.
Not saying its better than the Mage power, Im saying its a different tool and theres more to it than just flatly comparing the two in a single rarely seen situation.


And I explained the problem with your "benefit" above.

1) If you buff the dagger with poison, you wasting a card slot and 1 extra mana, can we agree on that? why not just equip any hero with better weapon.

2) The durability mean nothing because most of the time you end up with extra mana anyway. Especially late game, you don't always use all 10 mana correct?

3) Worst of all, you take damage whenever you hit any minion. How about you use those damage like Warlock and draw free card instead, it's like shooting someone then shoot yourself in a foot. Except one get better pay.
Edited by baalblade on 2/3/2014 11:48 AM PST
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Posts: 1,181
Why not? Well, mainly because another hero cant combo off of that 1 mana spell? And also because they dont have Blade Flurry? And also because 1 card for a 3 dmg weapon with 2 durability and the option to exchange it, AFTER ONE USE mind you, for a 3dmg (or more) AOE for merely another 2 mana is quite decent.

Durability means a lot, because sometimes you Flurry it, and no, mana is tight at times. So the durability matters a lot. Depends on your deck.

As for the damage to the face; again this comes back to several things. This is a downside to using dagger, obviously. We all agree on that.
However, the positives of it outweigh the bad. If you avoided the damage as WELL as all the positive things, then it would be insanely OP.

As said; you need to consider the context and not just flatly compare things. A Rogue with the dagger is a whole other ballgame than for instance the Mage with the same dagger. Or heaven forbid a Priest with the same dagger.
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Posts: 247
Rogue shouldn't have any weapons because they collide with hero power. Rogue should have more poisons instead to affect dagger like druids affects their shapeshift hero power
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Posts: 162
its not as bad as you describe l2p... you can invest 2 mana in the hero power and use it later when ever you want only risk of loosing it is swamp ooze or harrison jones.. no other hero power can do that. with your reasoning shouldnt druid have much worse?


How can Druid is worse? are you trolling or just being funny. Druid get free 1 Shield stack on each other, which part of that you don't understand.
Before tell me l2p, maybe you should l2read



You're a !@#$ing idiot. Druid hero power cost 2 mana gains are 1 dmg and 1 armor. The dmg will only be available at the turn it is used while armor stacks.

Rogue hero power creates a dagger with 2 durability. If you upgrade your dmg you have in essence a weapon with a dmg more than 1 for 2 uses. In addition at early game it's way more mana efficient since for instance you use your dagger at turn 2.

You can then use it both for turn 2 and turn 3. Whereas druids will have to re-use their hero power at turn 3, preventing them from dropping a minion if they go for hero power. Rogue on otherhand will have their dagger ready at turn 3 and will have the available mana to drop a minion.

If you are making comparisons then get your facts straights. Your QQ tears are so delicious moronic %^-*tard.

Edit: If you're gonna say that end game mana matters little then you're a lost cause. The available mana you can spend is almost the vital aspect of winning or losing. Miracle decks are so reliant on conceal and the available mana for their combo's . Same for all other classes, including dr00ds.
Edited by Calculus on 2/3/2014 1:26 PM PST
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Posts: 172
It's not about the dmg, it's just that rogue power slowly fall in late game and couldn't activate combo.
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Posts: 144
Its not the best hero ability, but definitely its not the worst one either.
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Posts: 12,554
The rogue hero power just needs to do SOMETHING when you have a weapon equiped (something benificial)

Being locked out of your hero power because you used a perdition's blade or assassins blade isn't fun

As has been suggested....a REALLY good idea would be to give equpied weapons +1 attack and -1 durability.
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Posts: 172
02/03/2014 09:35 PMPosted by Luminaire
Its not the best hero ability, but definitely its not the worst one either.


Nah imo it is the worst.

It's not about the mana per damage(Warlock please) as most people in here are saying. It's bad in term of synergy with other card in your deck and the risk you have to take when face attacking at each stage of the game.
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Posts: 29
You can't really talk about hero power balance without taking class cards into consideration.

If you just ignore class cards, I think you could easily make the case that rogue's power is simply worse than warlock's and better than warrior's. However, warlock's very powerful hero ability only makes up for its weak class cards, and warrior's combos really well with all the weapons.

And I don't see anyone else playing coin>Defias Ringleader on the first turn.
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