Valeera Rogue Hero Power is underpowered.

Posts: 26
04/24/2014 08:45 PMPosted by pedroEX
02/03/2014 08:55 PMPosted by Aryelco
It's not about the dmg, it's just that rogue power slowly fall in late game and couldn't activate combo.


I will give the same suggestion i always do:

Make it put a 1/2 dagger in your hand that costs 0 mana.

So you can easily combo any card when topdecking.
You could even stack daggers to play your topdecked vancleff.


I've been toying with a similar idea, just make the dagger activation trigger combos in itself. If you look at certain combo cards it will be obvious that this is slightly OP though, and doing what you suggest is ridiculously OP. Can't play anything relevant? No problem, just stack up daggers that you can use to buff Van Cleef to ridiculous proportions for little to no mana or pull a free combo out of your !@# the next time you have cards.

You gotta keep in mind that Van Cleef, while not as bombastic and "big" as a lot of other legendaries, costs three mana. Look at the other 3 mana cards and it will become obvious how out-there your proposed solution really is.

Not a good idea.
Edited by Megaost on 4/29/2014 1:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 294
02/03/2014 12:26 PMPosted by Husky
Rogue shouldn't have any weapons because they collide with hero power. Rogue should have more poisons instead to affect dagger like druids affects their shapeshift hero power


This would be awesome, actually have a "poison" effect.. don't know what that effect would be but having different poisons you could throw on the Rogue weapon would be neat. Some "off-the-top-of-my-head" ideas:

-Virulent Poison: Any target afflicted by this takes 1 damage at the end of each turn. So if you hit a 2/2 minion for 1 damage, it would die at the end of your turn.. or if you hit a Harvest Golem, it would be a 2/2 at the end of your turn and a 2/1 at the end of your opponents turn.

-Assassins Poison: Instantly kill a minion hit by this poison, weapon breaks after use. No real explanation necessary, works kind of like Emperor Cobra, just another idea.

Uhhh... I don't really have many more, and they were just random names I thought of, but I think you all get what I'm going for here.
Edited by PHxLoki on 4/29/2014 5:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 179
04/29/2014 01:03 PMPosted by Megaost
04/24/2014 08:45 PMPosted by pedroEX
...

I will give the same suggestion i always do:

Make it put a 1/2 dagger in your hand that costs 0 mana.

So you can easily combo any card when topdecking.
You could even stack daggers to play your topdecked vancleff.


I've been toying with a similar idea, just make the dagger activation trigger combos in itself. If you look at certain combo cards it will be obvious that this is slightly OP though, and doing what you suggest is ridiculously OP. Can't play anything relevant? No problem, just stack up daggers that you can use to buff Van Cleef to ridiculous proportions for little to no mana or pull a free combo out of your !@# the next time you have cards.

You gotta keep in mind that Van Cleef, while not as bombastic and "big" as a lot of other legendaries, costs three mana. Look at the other 3 mana cards and it will become obvious how out-there your proposed solution really is.

Not a good idea.


In the game you can stack totens/recruits/armor/healing/damage/cards why we can't stack daggers?
That aside, its not free, costs 2 mana each why call it free?The only difference is now you can use the spare mana to something useful instead of:

-Destroying your current weapon.
-Recharge 1 dagger durability.

If you were stacking daggers the whole game, vancleef will not save you (your vancleef has spell/skill immunity and has taunt? Mine don't.)
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Posts: 26
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I've been toying with a similar idea, just make the dagger activation trigger combos in itself. If you look at certain combo cards it will be obvious that this is slightly OP though, and doing what you suggest is ridiculously OP. Can't play anything relevant? No problem, just stack up daggers that you can use to buff Van Cleef to ridiculous proportions for little to no mana or pull a free combo out of your !@# the next time you have cards.

You gotta keep in mind that Van Cleef, while not as bombastic and "big" as a lot of other legendaries, costs three mana. Look at the other 3 mana cards and it will become obvious how out-there your proposed solution really is.

Not a good idea.


In the game you can stack totens/recruits/armor/healing/damage/cards why we can't stack daggers?
That aside, its not free, costs 2 mana each why call it free?The only difference is now you can use the spare mana to something useful instead of:

-Destroying your current weapon.
-Recharge 1 dagger durability.

If you were stacking daggers the whole game, vancleef will not save you (your vancleef has spell/skill immunity and has taunt? Mine don't.)


My whole point is that you should not be given a de facto free combo point if you are sitting on a bad hand. Combos/Van Cleef is what makes this idea an issue.

Yes, you can stack armor, yes you can "stack" healing (not really, but I see what you mean). Why would the same be broken with daggers? Because of combos. The cost of executing a combo lies in playing a card under conditions that aren't necessarily optimal to get a beneficial effect. Doing this will cost you mana and a card, thinning out your hand, forcing you to actually accomplish something with the combo you played.

I know it's easy to think that "well backstab (just to take an example) costs zero mana, deals two damage AND triggers a combo, why can't daggers do that?" Because backstab is a card you draw, meaning if you use it and a combo you will sit there with one less card than what you started with, meaning you lose cards, meaning you have to win early.

If you can spawn a dagger card and combo with that however, you sit there with the same amount of cards you had when you started the turn, allowing you to use the strong aggressive traits of combos while suffering no net loss of cards on your hand. That's in addition to the existing effect of the dagger. Can't you see how this is OP?

It's basically a variation of the warlock skill where instead of getting a card from your deck you get a card that can play any combo in the game, trigger any spell effects in the game, and trigger stuff like Van Cleef/Questing Adventurer, but instead of losing 2 HP you get to attack twice for a total of two damage.

Considering the main thing keeping rogues in check is having to spend lots of cards to get things done and thus being extremely reliant on card draw this is disastrous.

As for the Van Cleef subject (which is a minor part of this tbh), it's not about stacking daggers the whole game, it's about doing it maybe one turn where you have nothing worthwhile to play, and suddenly your 3 mana cost minion has 2 more hp and attack than it would have had otherwise. You're sitting there with eviscerate and VC, you didn't want to play eviscerate which you had the turn before because there's a minion out that you can't clear with just two damage. Well, no problem! Just press the dagger button, use up two mana that you wouldn't have used anyway, next turn play dagger card, eviscerate and VC, you now have a 6/6 VC (for three !@#$ing mana), cleared the enemy minion AND you have a dagger equipped.

The whole thing balancing Van Cleef is that the mana and cards you have available on your turn dictates how big you can get him (again, he is a three mana card, think about that for a second.)if you are able to hoard cards that you get in addition to your regular card draws and store them up for later use to trigger on-spellcast effects(auctioneer, mana addict)/Van Cleef/combos what have you, this is huge.

And this is, again, completely looking away from the fact that it also equips a weapon on use.

I don't even know how to put it simpler because this is so obvious to me.

You want to turn the dagger we have today into a button that also triggers any combo, any on-cast effect, any "play a card" effect while also retaining its current effect for two mana? How do you justify this? Would you be ok if mages fireball did the same thing? Even if they had to trade damage with the minion they attacked? Would you be ok if druid shapeshift did the same thing? Armoring up gives you two armor for two mana, dagger would give two damage for two mana AND trigger combo/cardplay/whatever effect at will.

How? Why? What?
Edited by Megaost on 4/30/2014 5:08 AM PDT
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Posts: 710
Can people stop using the term "free". It's not free.

First an most you have to combine it with class cards which is your bread and butter. Then you usually have to take damage to the face.

So playing, as you people say, free removal. It's 2 mana, 1 durability, X damage to your hero. Usually a minimum of 2. And combined with 1-2 cards from your hand. Free? Yeah, right.

So in my opinion, still think it's very weak.
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Posts: 179
"Trigger any spell effects in the game"

A: explain to me how a 0 mana Weapon triggers spell effects?

"Would you be ok if mages fireball did the same thing?"

A: mages fireball can also hit your own minions as an additional effect.(trigger enrages etc.) and is also direct, is the same logic but with different effects.

"If you can spawn a dagger card and combo with that however, you sit there with the same amount of cards you had when you started the turn, allowing you to use the strong aggressive traits of combos while suffering no net loss of cards on your hand. That's in addition to the existing effect of the dagger. Can't you see how this is OP?"

A:Your are forgetting that the mana cost delay your plays, thus giving your opponent time and mana to counter the extra strength you get from it.
And the dagger benefits, are like an backstab that deals his damage after 2 turns and damage your hero, not that great you see.

Its obviously a buff, so will make it obviously better. I am not saying that rogue power is complete trash, but it has some odd weaknesses.Is just strange that is the only power of the game that you can't get the full benefit using it 2 turns in a row.

If it is too op, just make the dagger 1/1.
Edited by pedroEX on 4/30/2014 10:17 AM PDT
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Posts: 26
04/30/2014 10:16 AMPosted by pedroEX
"Trigger any spell effects in the game"

A: explain to me how a 0 mana Weapon triggers spell effects?

[/quote]

Brainfart. Everything else still stands and I am tired of debating. Believe that this is a good solution if you will, they will never ever implement it and it's your dissapointment when you realize this.
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Posts: 179
04/30/2014 12:44 PMPosted by Megaost
Brainfart. Everything else still stands and I am tired of debating. Believe that this is a good solution if you will, they will never ever implement it and it's your dissapointment when you realize this.


I know they will never implement, i just like debating those kinda of stuff :-) .
All forum posts are meaningless to them anyway, they only trust in game analytics and their design team.

Have a nice day.
Edited by pedroEX on 4/30/2014 3:09 PM PDT
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