Coin + Innervate = OP

Posts: 219
Ok, seriously you play this 1st turn, you almost have the game in hand. Yes, you spent a good portion of your deck doing so, but I don't think you should have 4 mana on your first turn.
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Posts: 29
I think turn 1 Chillwind Yeti or turn 3 Rag is totally fine. Sorry for the sarcasm, honestly i think something needs to be done.
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Posts: 44
I dont agree! I have played druid a lot and more than 50% of the time when I coined yeti or even dotc out in turn 1 or 2, it was killed the turn after or defendly the turn after that, and at that point I was 2 cards behind and only had a few more health than him...

When you turn out 3 cards in turn 1, and you only end up taking 4 health, then you have a big problem! But sure some times it's a awesome start, but I have learned that most of the time it's really not.

Vh Pamh
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Posts: 81
As a Druid player, I can't argue the power of innovated on turn one for a high many costing strong creature. However! This uses too many cards, too early and for the next few turns, you'll be very limited while the enemy player is free to do whatever. Of course this situation only gets worse if they hex, polymorph, assassinate, fireball etc. your creature and you lost 3 cards to play that creature. It's a bit situational and in most cases, I don't bother doing this play. I usually innovate (double innovate, coin innovate) when I know there's still other plays available the next few turns, so I normally wouldn't do this on turn 1-3.
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Posts: 200
I don't think it counts as necro'ing a thread if the thread is still on the first page. Just saying.

It's a high risk, high reward card. As many others have said, if you play the 2-3 cards and then the opponent deals with it with 1 card, the opponent will have card advantage. Also, the chances of someone drawing a single card to deal with the minion cast this way is more likely than someone getting the 3-4 cards needed to pull off such combos. Additionally, there's also the risk for Druids to draw dead with this card later on in the game (i.e., when you have 10 mana crystals and you need a minion or a spell that can actually do something useful for that time, drawing an Innervate is worthless).

Honestly, nothing needs to be done. Sometimes RNG works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. Accept it, move on.
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Posts: 36
02/04/2014 07:27 AMPosted by starblade876

Honestly, nothing needs to be done. Sometimes RNG works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. Accept it, move on.


0 cost cards need to be carefully balanced because of the impact they have on the game. Vs. most decks, a coin innervate yeti is an automatic lose. You fall too fall behind on tempo, and druid has amazing removal to keep things going for them.

Druids are arguably the top of the ladder and have been the best class for a while. If you look at win tracking websites, druids are still doing very well.

I think the concern is with cards (like pagle, although pagle needs to be played early and then hit the draws), is that you shouldn't end up with auto-win situations in games.
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Posts: 11,336
It's a little strong because they aren't likely to be removing it with one card on turn one or two. They might take it down with two cards by turn three, but that isn't really that bad if you had other things to play.

But I don't see it as much different than any other rush strategy, except that it uses one creature rather than a handful of *cough* Murlocs.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 2/4/2014 3:54 PM PST
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Posts: 34
I am new (almost 2 weeks playing) and only interested in playing druid for the time being, in the last 2 weeks I have learnt it is almost never worth coin/innervate on turn one, or any combo for that matter say double innervate, what is way better is spreading, say turn 1 innervate for a 3 mana minion and turn 3 for a 5 mana.

There are way to many outs for any class really to do such a move and if you have been beaten by such a move then you got unlucky and had no outs.

This is a fun little calculator to help with odds of drawing (see link below)

Even with just 2 cards and a sample size of 3 (you draw only 3 no Mulligan)gives you a pretty good chance to draw a card say 1 of 2 hunter's mark.

Now you might have more then 2 say 4 that can deal with such a move and also you might not be drawing just 3 cards as you might Mulligan them all, if you're second turn you get to Mulligan a possible 8 and might have 4 cards in your deck that can deal with a big minion turn 1, giving you such a good chance of drawing that its really not worth it for a druid to make these moves.

http://www.geneprof.org/GeneProf/tools/hypergeometric.jsp

With just 2 cards in your deck say hunters mark and drawing only 3 cards it gives you a 19% chance to draw a hunters mark as a example.

with 4 cards in your deck it gives you a 35% chance to draw a card that can help turn one.

Both examples are turn one (3 cards no Mulligan).

Any other circumstance only increases your odds say draw 4 cards Mulligan draw another 4 with 4 outs in your deck chances of hitting one of those 4 outs is 73%.

also remember the druid is playing with these odds too for drawing a innervate, and they also have to draw a minion suitable for such a move say Yetti, making the odds worse.

Edit: Sorry for English not my first language
Edited by GrantMeDeath on 2/4/2014 4:49 PM PST
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Posts: 219
I'd be afraid to invest too heavily into a single thing. The dream is the super early Rag though assuming no hexes, ect will drop.

Anyways, Ancient Watcher + Sunfury Protector turn 1 was pretty strong. I don't think I'd ever do anything else turn 1 similar to it.
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Posts: 640
Only time i do that is Turn 3 Ancient for an 8/8 by that time i have some cards i can use. to help with tempo but its not worth it most of the time
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Posts: 44
@fifthbiz
Automatic win = coin --> Innevate --> yeti, are you kidding me! My experience says that, around 60-70% of the time I have played that combo, my minion only attacked once or got killed right away! And at that point I was 2 card behind and struggled the hole early and midtgame that match..

The only time I would recommend playing coin --> Innevate --> yeti on turn 1 is if you have two turn 2 cards or a turn 2 and a turn 3 card in your hand to back it up.. If not, it's much more valuable to keep the Innevate and play it later on.

Vh Pamh
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Posts: 28
Any smart player doing a turn on yeti would also have, at the very least, a turn two play lined up.
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Posts: 44
@karthunk
That is my point ;-).
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Posts: 87
Only do it vrs rogues that don't run sap, other druids, and warriors. and if you do it on any minion make sure it is carine. This way you get the most absurd value possible and they will be topdecking in no time unless they want to take lethal damage.
Edited by Sxt on 2/6/2014 1:33 PM PST
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Posts: 58
02/04/2014 09:51 PMPosted by Pamh78
@fifthbiz
Automatic win = coin --> Innevate --> yeti, are you kidding me! My experience says that, around 60-70% of the time I have played that combo, my minion only attacked once or got killed right away! And at that point I was 2 card behind and struggled the hole early and midtgame that match..


Please tell me how on turn two, a class killed your Yetti. Mage can't poly/fireball til turn 4. Warrior can Inner Rage/Execute, and spent two cards doing that. So it was a 2 for 2, cause the coin doesn't really count as a card. Hex isn't until turn 3, assassinate is turn 5, so yeah. Siphon Soul? Turn 6. Soulfire + Mortal coil requires luck and is a 2 for 2 (assuming they praised RNGesus and got the card draw, otherwise a 3 for 2). Naturalize refunds your cards, and a priest can't hit a Yetti til turn 6 with Holy Fire. Please, tell me how it only attacks once. The EARLIEST they can do anything about it is turn 3, and that is ONLY against a Shaman. You get at least two attacks on other classes. And if you get two minions for it, you just killed the tempo of the other deck, and made them play their cards very poorly. How exactly is that a bad thing?

Edit: Hunters can Hunter's Mark it, but its still a 2 for 2. (Forgot non-facerush Hunters exist)
Edited by Greedily on 2/6/2014 7:10 PM PST
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Posts: 42
Using 3 card in turn 1 is stupid - yes this statement also refers to mage and rogue. I always laughed at people who did this and won.

BTW how many times you can expect to have 3 specific cards in your starting hand?
Edited by XBX on 2/7/2014 8:57 AM PST
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Posts: 10
I've actually had a turn 4 Ironbark Protector. That was a fun game -sarcasm-. Coined, then two innervates.
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Posts: 859
I very rarely use innervate on turn 1, and in conjunction with a coin.
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Posts: 109
meh like the 2x Innervate on t1 into a Venture Co. Mercenary more.
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Posts: 395
Turn 1 Yeti is pretty good. It just gets killed pretty fast.
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