Demon synergy / New drawbacks

Posts: 8
Demons as of now are by far the worst class cards, the demon penalties are a little too harsh and quite frankly there are to few of them (when one tries to be different it becomes the WORST card in the game... stupid felgaurd).

Here are are some of the ideas that my friend and I came up with.

PITLORD
4/6 for 4 and the card text reads "deal 5 damage randomly split between friendly characters. Give all friendly demons +1/+1"

SUCCUBUS
4/3 for 2 card text reads "return a random card back to your deck"

FELGAURD
3/5 for 3 card text reads"deal 3 damage to your hero both players loose a mana crystal"

For the new drawback we came up with (not all are polished or even good)
Return a card to your deck, deal x damage split between friendly characters, reduce max board size, random minion cant attack next turn, can only use x amount of actions (action defined as something that is recorded in the battle log on the side)

Finally we decided that there needed to be some more demon synergy like the pit lord idea, or the dread infernal's battle cry doesn't effect other demons.

Please post your responses and ideas i know that some of mine are stupid but at least it is a start.
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Posts: 1,652
For the Pitlord I think the 5 damage penalty should be changed from a Battlecry to a Deathrattle. That way if it gets sheeped, hexed, hit with Tink or whatever the player avoids the damage.

The Succubus is extremely strong and does warrant a penalty to the player. I don't think it needs adjusting as it is playable as-is.

The Felguard is tricky to balance. The penalty is too severe right now. Perhaps the best change would be to remove taunt from it and just have it a 3/5 that deals 3 or 4 damage to the player.
Edited by MadJohnny on 2/12/2014 1:21 PM PST
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Posts: 61
I think that demons don't need to synergize with each other. They should boost the warlock, or the warlock should boost them somehow.

And the synergy itself should come from the panelties. For example:

Felguard 3/5, taunt, destroy a mana crystal. Each time the warlock takes damage this minion gains +1/+1. (So you can buff it by damaging yourself).

Flame Imp 3/2 deals 3 damage to the warlock. Each time you discard a card this minion gets +1 spellpower until the end of your turn.

Just ideas.
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Posts: 36
I don't get felguard... It's practicly 1 overload for the whole game.
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Posts: 389
Yeah, whoever designed the warlock cards (probably a few people per hero) really missed the mark here. Their hero power is card draw for health and mana, but their minions completely negate their own hero power by either sacrificing, life, mana or cards or combinations of those. Frankly, its a joke that isn't even remotely funny. This literally forces locks to stack their deck with neutrals to get anything out of their hero-power, and it shows. No other class contradicts itself as badly as the lock.

I am a demon user but they are 100% unplayable past rank 15.

02/12/2014 01:20 PMPosted by MadJohnny
For the Pitlord I think the 5 damage penalty should be changed from a Battlecry to a Deathrattle.


This statement hits the nail on the head 100% of the way. In the sense that some demons need their effects turned into Deathrattles, not just Pitlord. There is just too much removal out there to merit the use of anything thats going to make you discard or hurt yourself from the get-go and there has to be some control over it.

In my opinion all of these cards should be moved into deathrattle status and given choice on "payment" on their death for their service.

Deathratttle Count
Succubus - discard a card or 3 damage
Pitlord - 5 or discard 2 cards
Flame imp - 3 or discard a card
Doomguard - 5 or discard 2 cards
Felguard - 3 or remove 1 mana crystal
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Posts: 3,512
I feel like the Demon cards are meant to feel feisty and uncooperative. To that end, I like the idea of some of the problem cards being changed to have penalty battlecries that they distribute at random. Sort of the way Ragnaros 'picks' who he wants to attack, except at smaller magnitude, on a battlecry, and at risk to friendly characters.

It doesn't feel good to have games where I don't draw my favorite demons until I'm in the danger zone with health, and while that risk in itself is fair to account for, it doesn't feel like an interesting theme. At that point, all they're good for is getting chewed up by soul fires. A little boring.
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Posts: 484
I just hate the discard mechanic because it robs me of options.

I honestly do not mind the Health Damage or Mana Crystal destruction because I make a decision to do so. I know the draw backs, and can keep them in consideration. With discard, it's almost completely out of hands over whats decided. You wanted to keep the PO for removal? Tough biscuits it's gone. Oh, you want to play turn 1 Succubus, just let me toss Molten Giant, you won't be needing him.

It's just not fun when the game robs you of options because of RNG. I would be a lot more happier with negative deathrattles or high health cost then having my cards burned away. Even having a choice of which card would at least let me feel as if I'm in control.

I doubt it's going to change this late into the beta, but still, they might have a change of heart
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Posts: 846
02/15/2014 02:40 PMPosted by Rusery
Yeah, whoever designed the warlock cards (probably a few people per hero) really missed the mark here. Their hero power is card draw for health and mana, but their minions completely negate their own hero power by either sacrificing, life, mana or cards or combinations of those. Frankly, its a joke that isn't even remotely funny. This literally forces locks to stack their deck with neutrals to get anything out of their hero-power, and it shows. No other class contradicts itself as badly as the lock.

I am a demon user but they are 100% unplayable past rank 15.

For the Pitlord I think the 5 damage penalty should be changed from a Battlecry to a Deathrattle.


This statement hits the nail on the head 100% of the way. In the sense that some demons need their effects turned into Deathrattles, not just Pitlord. There is just too much removal out there to merit the use of anything thats going to make you discard or hurt yourself from the get-go and there has to be some control over it.

In my opinion all of these cards should be moved into deathrattle status and given choice on "payment" on their death for their service.

Deathratttle Count
Succubus - discard a card or 3 damage
Pitlord - 5 or discard 2 cards
Flame imp - 3 or discard a card
Doomguard - 5 or discard 2 cards
Felguard - 3 or remove 1 mana crystal


These changes would make these demons way too powerful. Being deathrattles rather than battlecries already gives you a lot of control over the effects, control you shouldn't be having in the first place because all of these demons are extremely powerful for their measly cost. Adding a choice of penalties brings it over the top, especially since 1 of the options is discard, which can be negated entirely by emptying your hand or otherwise heavily manipulated by either keeping a very large hand so that the likelihood of discarding a key card would be severely lessened or keep your hand size small and play your important cards, keeping the marginal/bad ones only in your hand so the discard won't matter to you at all.

Are these demons good as they stand right now? No. They used to be fine but than Blizzard nerfed some of them as well as other Warlock cards without having any cards that glue all the demons together. Take Hunters for example, all of their beasts are bad for their cost, but they have such powerful synergies that make them worthwhile to run. Same goes with Murlocs and to a lesser extent Pirates(though those aren't really competitive on their own). Demons don't necessarily need such heavy synergies like these other tribes but they need something. It seems that Blizzard intended Demons to be powerful stand alone creatures that are cheaper than normal but come with a penalty, without true synergy just high base power. This approach would work if the Warlock class had the right spells to support this. Warlock either needs some solid self healing(just for the hero not its minions) other than the marginal Drain Life or some way to negate removal since it's so common.

These demons remind me of MTG's suicide black creatures, powerful for their cost but with a penalty. The difference is that MTG doesn't have nearly as much removal as Hearthstone does, especially for the colors that don't specialize in it which are black and red. Also in MTG you can't choose where your minions deal their damage, the opponent chooses whether to block(and with what) or take the hit to his life total. Therefore suicide black as a concept works(though it's never really been the top deck in any format) because you can kill your opponent faster than you die to your own penalties. In Hearthstone your opponent can attack your minions directly, and there is much more removal lying around for all classes, especially sweepers(or AoE spells as the Hearthstone community calls them), making this approach unfeasible in Hearthstone as it stands right now. That's the main problem with the demons right now, and the solution shouldn't come from buffing the demons themselves as that would probably make them truly OP but rather to improve the supporting spells of the Warlock class to allow their class characteristic to work.
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Posts: 2
The penality are just too risky. having a big bad !@# that hurt you for 5dmg or discarding 2 cards and on opponent turn he can be: sheep, frog, Deadly Shot, fireball, Inner Rage/execute, sap, murder, sacrificial pact etc ......

The penalities should be -less- or getting them on deathratle.

As for now, I love Warlock and demons theme .. but it is just not worth it right now.
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