Leroy + Shadowstep

Posts: 531
02/13/2014 10:48 PMPosted by zaspacer
I'm not here to wine or complain i just think its a tad OP that around turn 9 you can be taken for 23 of your health.

On paper Leroy seems like a decent card but he's extremely abuse-able


Leeroy + 2x Shadowstep (3 cards, 8 crystals, 18 damage) is very powerful.

But so is Force of Nature + Savage Roar (2 cards, 9 crystals, 18 damage). And Druid also has 2x Innervate, so if they use 1 Innervate in the combo then they can have 3 cards, 7 crystals, 18 damage.

Shaman has Al'Akir the Windlord + 2x Rockbiter Weapon. (3 cards, 10 crystals, 18 damage)

And Hunter has its Unleash The Hounds combos.


You do realize Force of Nature + Savage Roar combo is 14 damage right?
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Posts: 2,688
Any class can do something similar with Leeroy (although not quite as good)
Leeroy, youthful brewmaster, Leeroy.
Or things like Leeroy + Windfury + rockbiter
Leeroy + power overwhelming x2
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Posts: 146
You guys are missing the point.

It's 18 potential damage on turn 8, if the stars align (really how often out of a deck of 30 cards do you get auctioneer ready to play on turn 5 and got conceal as well?). It's like complaining that once you get to turn 10 in game, mage can pyro your face or priest can mind control, or on turn 8 someone pops alexstraza or ragnaros etc.

It's the main burst of Miracle rogue (spell based deck). Outside of this, there isn't much damage going (given only 8 total minions), most of the other damaging spells will be used in the hope to preserve said Rogue hp until he can (if lucky) do the combo (which means he also needs to deal at least 12 damage by turn 8). Miracle deck has no taunts, no heals, no big AoEs (if you let a rogue play assassins's blade and double poison it and you don't use ooze before all that - given magically he wasn't forced to use poison or bladestorm at all in previous turns - unlikely - it's your fault, it's like playing no silences and removal and complaining about buffed creatures), no huge single nukes (like mage, shaman, paladin etc).

Wait maybe you have more fun playing against murlock decks or aggro decks, where you aren't even sure if you make it past turn 5 is it? :)
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Posts: 682
The deck should be called 'Jank Lottery' because the name should describe the deck.
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Posts: 21
Man... I got totally roflstomped... owned a rogue with my Mage, cone of cold on all his minions and he is 2 hp left.

Next turn (8 mana) he unleashes this 3 times... It was brutal...

And I had !@#$ing Fireball in my hand... :(
Edited by milan3z3 on 2/22/2014 6:49 AM PST
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Posts: 2,737
mbb: well that name doesnt. so...
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Posts: 4,743
02/11/2014 09:19 AMPosted by Xalchs
The problem is you really can't counter it. and yes its mainly against control decks.


any taunt with at least 2 attack can counter it
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Posts: 35
Please make gogues unable to use shadowstep leroy jenkins and anu 0 cost cards so they can buff up a questing adventurer to 7/7 on turn 3..... takes no skill whatsoever
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Posts: 91
Yeah, right, you dont even need more than a Leeroy + 1 shadowstep, if the guy has to put double SI:Agents on the field the turn(s) before.

If anything, Leeroy should be made 5/2, rather than 6/2. The card has ridiculous charge attack ratio of 1.5 per mana.
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Posts: 2,737
Imo remove leeroy completely and give me a 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps. I'd rather have that.
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Posts: 817
02/22/2014 03:46 PMPosted by Slai
Imo remove leeroy completely and give me a 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps. I'd rather have that.


Leeroy doesn't need a buff.
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Posts: 817
02/22/2014 10:53 AMPosted by Requiem
The problem is you really can't counter it. and yes its mainly against control decks.


any taunt with at least 2 attack can counter it


Yeah and Rogues have absolutely no means to deal with taunts right. And Sap doesn't exist.
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Posts: 634
Personally I would be fine with the leeroy + shadowstep combo if it weren't so easy for rogues to pull off, and also so easy for them to remove your taunts.

People here have claimed that drawing Auctioneer and Conceal by turn 6 is unlikely, but rogues tend to have ~40-50% of their deck drawn by then, so with 2 of each in the deck, they draw it more often than not. And they don't even need it on turn 6, they just need it before they lose control of the board.

Once they draw Auctioneer+Conceal, it's pretty easy for a rogue to draw 80+% of their deck by the end of the turn, while controlling your board at the same time.

From there, Leeroy + 2x shadowstep is only 8 mana for 18 dmg. But it probably won't be played on turn 8 because your opponent will drop a taunt or will still be over 18 health. So instead, you just control the board for a turn or two, and then with 10 mana doing 25+ dmg because pretty easy throwing in cold bloods and/or evis, or alternatively you can clear taunts and still get in for 18. And then you can sometimes throw in Prep for even more damage.

I've actually had a rogue draw 28/30 cards of his deck by turn 9, prep+evis my taunt, and then hit me for 28 dmg with the combo when I was at 26. Though that's an unlikely situation, the more common results are still quite op in my opinion.

Personally, I think Leeroy should be reduced to 5 attack, down from 6, because he's strong in a lot of combos. And then Shadowstep should reduce the minion's cost by 1 instead of 2, so that rogues have to use all 10 mana to pull off the combo, which will still allow them to do some exceptional stuff with Prep thrown in.
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Posts: 2,737
Monkey: so instead of changing just leeroy you want to remove shadowstep as a viable card for the entire class?
Making him 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps would be solving your "oh it's too easy to OTK" situation, and make the deck more interesting to play.

Marchenoir: I know he doesn't need it, but... ;)
No as said, it would be a change indeed. Removes the probability of "easy" OTK, without just making it rubbish. I'd still run it, obviously, as it's a far better card. But less "OMG Nerf!" feel to it.
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Posts: 470
Leroy, x2 shadowstep and cold blood. This is a 4 card combo that hits for 30 damage all of which only has one requirement...

Keep the board free of taunts. Ive had this 3-step combo used on me a few times and its not OP, its just a damn good play.

1) Its always around turn 8-10, rogue uses Vanish and drops a mob for 2-4 mana.
2) I come back with whatever i had or different depending on the new situation. This is where you need a taunt that WILL survive or youve lost.
3) Rogue then initiates the combo if hes got it, and if its miracle rogue hes burned through a lot of his cards to find it. Sap and Owls help clear the way if there is an issue.
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Posts: 634
02/23/2014 02:53 PMPosted by Slai
Monkey: so instead of changing just leeroy you want to remove shadowstep as a viable card for the entire class?
Making him 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps would be solving your "oh it's too easy to OTK" situation, and make the deck more interesting to play.

Reducing a 20+ damage combo by 3 damage isn't enough in my opinion.
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Posts: 1,105
02/23/2014 12:06 PMPosted by Monkey
Personally I would be fine with the leeroy + shadowstep combo if it weren't so easy for rogues to pull off, and also so easy for them to remove your taunts.

I'm sorry, but have you played a Rogue?

Shadowstep is a dead draw until you can use it. Leeroy is only one card out of thirty. There isn't actually an easy way for the Rogue to remove your Taunts---Sap only gives the Rogue tempo, and Assassinate triggers Deathrattles.

02/23/2014 12:06 PMPosted by Monkey
Once they draw Auctioneer+Conceal, it's pretty easy for a rogue to draw 80+% of their deck by the end of the turn, while controlling your board at the same time.

Again I ask, have you played the Rogue? From the start of the game and until the turn where you have full mana and the Auctioneer down, you're pretty damn vulnerable. Almost every deck can kill the Rogue by then with their complete lack of resistance.

02/23/2014 12:06 PMPosted by Monkey
I've actually had a rogue draw 28/30 cards of his deck by turn 9, prep+evis my taunt, and then hit me for 28 dmg with the combo when I was at 26. Though that's an unlikely situation, the more common results are still quite op in my opinion.

And here's your problem: Turn 9. The miracle rogue is a Questing Adventurer. It puts a timer on your game. He's doing invisible damage to you that you can't see every turn. Relying on a single taunt minion by turn 9 isn't good enough, you should have a massive board advantage and create several taunts with Defender of Argus.

I suggest you post the deck you played with and I'll be happy to give you a few pointers. Most likely your deck is the issue.
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Posts: 855
02/13/2014 10:48 PMPosted by zaspacer
I'm not here to wine or complain i just think its a tad OP that around turn 9 you can be taken for 23 of your health.

On paper Leroy seems like a decent card but he's extremely abuse-able


Leeroy + 2x Shadowstep (3 cards, 8 crystals, 18 damage) is very powerful.

But so is Force of Nature + Savage Roar (2 cards, 9 crystals, 18 damage). And Druid also has 2x Innervate, so if they use 1 Innervate in the combo then they can have 3 cards, 7 crystals, 18 damage.

Shaman has Al'Akir the Windlord + 2x Rockbiter Weapon. (3 cards, 10 crystals, 18 damage)

And Hunter has its Unleash The Hounds combos.


Force of nature + savage roar is 14 damage. 4 + 4 + 4 (trees) + 2 (hero) = 14.
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Posts: 146
02/23/2014 04:38 PMPosted by Rusery
Leroy, x2 shadowstep and cold blood. This is a 4 card combo that hits for 30 damage all of which only has one requirement...

Keep the board free of taunts. Ive had this 3-step combo used on me a few times and its not OP, its just a damn good play.

1) Its always around turn 8-10, rogue uses Vanish and drops a mob for 2-4 mana.
2) I come back with whatever i had or different depending on the new situation. This is where you need a taunt that WILL survive or youve lost.
3) Rogue then initiates the combo if hes got it, and if its miracle rogue hes burned through a lot of his cards to find it. Sap and Owls help clear the way if there is an issue.


Your math is way off. Leeroy 6/2 with charge. Add 1 cold blood = 10/2 leeroy. Then shadowstep - guess what? Cold blood buff doesn't remain on the card. Now you have a 6/2 leeroy again. Shadowstep again 6/2 leeroy. 22 Damage total. Not 30.Most you can do is 26 with double cold blood and 2 shadowsteps.

Miracle rogue has only 9 minions - 2xSI:7, 2xAuctioneer, 1xBlood mage (or kobold geomancer), 1x acolyte of pain, Leeroy, Nat Pagle, Van Cleef.

With what minions will he do damage to you (if you play either control or aggro) when he uses all of above except leeroy to survive into mid-late game by attacking your creatures, sometimes often forced to use bladestorm / eviscerates / poisons to try to make it to turn 7+.

Stop making stories of always having all the cards needed to keep board control and combo, those situations are very rare, not even top players like Kolento can pull things off when the cards in his hand aren't useful for the board situation etc.
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Posts: 634
@Bogrim I haven't seen a rogue use Questing Adventurer in ages. There's no "invisible damage" from one in that statement. And the fact that you comment about Questing Adventurer makes it seem like you've never played against a high ranking miracle rogue.

As for the rest of your statements, yes I realize rogue is vulnerable to rush decks. But the answer to "How do you counter rogue?" shouldn't just be "Play rush or hope you get lucky." Even the 2 DoAs in my deck tend to just delay things a turn at best (which is sometimes enough, but not usually), and at worst get blade flurried.
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