Leroy + Shadowstep

Posts: 1,181
Monkey: so instead of changing just leeroy you want to remove shadowstep as a viable card for the entire class?
Making him 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps would be solving your "oh it's too easy to OTK" situation, and make the deck more interesting to play.

Reducing a 20+ damage combo by 3 damage isn't enough in my opinion.

Great thing that was not what i suggested then.

It would be leeroyx2 for 8, 2x cb for 2, 2xEvi for 0. That's 26 dmg for two extra cards.

The same type combo for leeroy would be leeroyx3 for 8, 2xCB for 2, 2xEvi for 0. That's 34 dmg. About eight more than the change would give for the same amount of cards (almost) and mana.

At its basic form, the Leeroy x3 on turn 8 with no preps would deal 18, and this would deal 10.

If adding two prepCB or prepEvi to that, you're looking at an original 26, which would be 18 with this change.

Also, without the whelps you can use him as burst with sstep without playing him as a finisher, meaning he will be used more often as a shot of damage, then recalled for later . And generally be played in more ways.

3 dmg? No, there is more to it than that.
Edited by Slai on 2/24/2014 1:55 AM PST
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Posts: 146
He won't get changed. Nor Shadowstep or Cold Blood / Eviscerates etc. It's all part of the game, not everyone enjoys playing aggro or mulocks to fill the board in 3 turns.
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Posts: 626
Apologies Slai, didn't see the cost increase in there...

I don't really think I like that change, mainly because it makes the card a straight up better version of reckless rocketeer (which is scary that nerfing a card would leave it still straight up better than another card...), and it also takes away the flavor of Leeroy - his whelps - making him kind of boring of a legendary.

But anyways, from a gameplay perspective it would certainly be better than what we have now.
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Posts: 723
02/23/2014 10:09 PMPosted by Monkey
@Bogrim I haven't seen a rogue use Questing Adventurer in ages. There's no "invisible damage" from one in that statement. And the fact that you comment about Questing Adventurer makes it seem like you've never played against a high ranking miracle rogue.

Way to miss the point. The point was the mechanic of a Miracle Rogue deck is like a Questing Adventurer----at some point he will simply kill you from having played enough cards. Just because you can't see the damage counter go up doesn't mean it's unbalanced. Putting pressure on the Rogue causes her to spend her cards defending herself rather than setting up the ultimate combo.

02/23/2014 10:09 PMPosted by Monkey
As for the rest of your statements, yes I realize rogue is vulnerable to rush decks. But the answer to "How do you counter rogue?" shouldn't just be "Play rush or hope you get lucky." Even the 2 DoAs in my deck tend to just delay things a turn at best (which is sometimes enough, but not usually), and at worst get blade flurried.

Post your !@#$ing deck or get out of this thread. Because I can't think of any decent deck that can get to turn 9 and not have kill potential on a Miracle Rogue. Even players with a low rank deck with almost pure basic cards understand how to just keep dropping minions on the board.

If you're playing some big combo wombo spell deck then you need to realize you're playing against a miracle rogue and you need to finish the game before she does. And yes, the answer should be "rush her down" just like when you're against a face hunter where you throw your DoAs back into the deck because they're too slow against a Hunter.
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Posts: 1,150
02/22/2014 03:47 PMPosted by Marchenoir
Imo remove leeroy completely and give me a 5/2 charge for 5 with no whelps. I'd rather have that.

Leeroy doesn't need a buff.

That would be a nerf. Leeroy is usually a card you use to finish the game, so the whelps usually aren't a factor. He'd be a rocketeer if he was 5/2.
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Posts: 1,181
Actually it would be a buff in my eyes. He wouldn't be a finisher anymore, as you could pop him and a sstep and move on. He'd be far more versatile.
And he'd be a cost-balanced Rocketeer.

Monkey: I wouldn't change him, I'd remove him and replace him with that card. Because I agree, removing the whelps would make zero sense on a leeroy card. It works "lore"wise because of the whelps as you say.
Edited by Slai on 2/24/2014 1:44 PM PST
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Posts: 626
@Slai Honestly, I think your suggestion is just too big of a change that it's unlikely Blizzard would actually do something like that. Plus it would affect other classes quite a bit too (i.e. hunters w/ UTH). Which is why I was trying to suggest something simpler. I still say your change would be better than the current Leeroy though.

@Bogrim No need to be rude... Here's the current version of my main deck:
It 'can' have kill potential on a rogue by turn 9, but more often than not the rogue is too good at controlling the board and I come up a bit short.
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Posts: 723
02/24/2014 02:22 PMPosted by Monkey
@Bogrim No need to be rude... Here's the current version of my main deck:
It 'can' have kill potential on a rogue by turn 9, but more often than not the rogue is too good at controlling the board and I come up a bit short.

There's reason to be rude to you because that's what it took for you to post the problem. Your deck is terrible. The game should not be balanced around someone whose bad at making tactical decisions. Do you not understand this is the main source of the problem with most of the forum's feedback?

When you build your deck, you need to include win conditions. You need to pick cards that synergize with each other for greater effect. For example, you have Scarlet Crusader and Harvest Golem in your deck, but Noble Sacrifice instead of the Redemption that synergies incredibly well with both of them.

You play a control deck, but the bulk of your damage lies in your 3-drops, which isn't anything at all. All your deck really does is wipe the board once or twice, and then you die. You play a reactive deck, a deck that conserves cards until the proper moment like Equality + Consecration, but at the same time you play Divine Favor, a card draw that's only good when you are burning your hand in an aggro type of deck.

When you lose a game, you need to first and formerly ask yourself, "How could my deck have handled this kind of opponent better?" The reason the Rogue could execute you at turn 9 is because you had such little board presence that she could safely draw all the cards necessary to win the game.

Drop the following cards from your deck:
- Noble Sacrifice (2)
- Divine Favor (4)
- Harvest Golem OR Scarlet Crusader (6)
- Azure Drake (8)

With the 8 empty card slots, consider adding:
- 2 Mountain Giants and 2 Molten Giants (alternative: Boulderfist Ogres or Stormwind Champions)
- Optional: The Black Knight
- Optional: Sylvanas Windrunner
- Cairne Bloodhoof (alternative: 2 Chilldwind Yeti)
- Tinkmaster Overspark (replaces Big Game Hunter)
- Any 2 of the following: Tirion Fodring, Ysera, Ragnaros
- Lay on Hands (alternative: Blessing of Wisdom)

Decent Substitutes:
- Hammer of Wrath
- Argent Commander
- Redemption

When you look at those cards, you might freak a little. The reality is control decks are really expensive. If you're playing with board wipes, you're gunning for a late game. If you're playing a late game, you need minions that can win you the game when they are dropped on the board.

For example, the reason Giants are so great in a Paladin deck is because they can bait out removal to let you play your bigger cards like Tirion Fodring. I beat a real nasty Rogue deck the other day by setting Sylvanas up with a Taunt backed by a Redemption. He had to spend most of his hand just to get around that mind controlling <female dog> twice. Then I used Lay on Hands and won the game with the massive card advantage alone.

Paladins are a lot stronger than Rogues in the current meta. You just need to work more on your deck. There's plenty of deck guides if what I suggested doesn't fit your taste.
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Posts: 1,181
Monkey: I know they won't change it. I was just playing "what if". I doubt they'll change it at all. At least now for a long while.
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Posts: 626
@Bogrim I'm not gonna have a Pally deck discussion thread here in the Rogue forums... so I'm just gonna drop this conversation... thanks though.
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Posts: 269
Just had this happen to me, it's so lame lol. My rogue just threw in a brewmaster for the heck of it...did 30 damage in 1 round...
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Posts: 226
Combos are what make card games fun...I don't know why people complain about them so much...wait, is the OP complaining about fun?

OP, do you live in the town from Footloose?
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